New (old) bike help required

[ourclarioncall]

My XTC also has a drain plug in the bottom bracket. If any water were to get into the seat tube, it would drain down into the bottom bracket, from which it could be drained. I do remember that Thorn recommended using waxoyl to treat the inside of the seat tube, bottom bracket, head tube and the stearer, though obviously other products can be used

From trawling the internet , ive pulled up info stating Thorn has recommended Waxoly (not sure if it’s a hammerite original brand but I see they make it and another company makes “waxoil” which I guess is similar ) and also Wurth’s cavity wax. Both of which I’ve saved in my eBay watch list incase I decide to go for one

Other options are just using nothing, or oil, or grease , or Vaseline . Other stuff out there like framesaver. A video I just watched highlighted a product called XCP rust blocker which seemed to do significantly better in tests than the rest of the competition.

Oh yeah there is also dinitrol, a bit like wayoyl I think.

So I hear that rust converters are not so good. Especially if there is oil or grease contamination . It’s maybe better to clean and degrease then mechanically remove all the rust then something like wayoyl is supposed to have a built in rust converter thingy. My brain is fried with all the science 😄. Can’t retain it all.

One of my concerns is mixing these different substances and not knowing if they have negative effects

For example we are advised to grease the seat post (if it’s aluminium I think ) so that it doesn’t cease up. And a bit of that grease is supposed to be good to stop water getting into seat tube . Also I think you would be greasing the bottom bracket , again to stop ceasing . But then what about applying wayoyl into the seat tube , will that be okay with the grease ? Or can wayoyl be used for the seat post and the bottom bracket ? I don’t know if it acts as a lubricant and would stop ceasing . Hmm 🤔

I heard oil and grease were the original rust preventers . So maybe those two would’ve fine or even just a good quality marine grease for everything . Decisions decisions !

[Prince of Darkness]

I’m not too sure if it’s a square taper, I’m sure il find out soon enough. There was a guy on here that did up an exp like mine so I can check the bottom bracket he used if that will give me a clue 🕵🏻‍♂️

The Youtube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFg4OgeprHk shows a Shimano Deore XT crank. It's not square taper and the fitting / removal instructions are available here https://si.shimano.com/api/publish/storage/pdf/en/dm/MAFC002/DM-MAFC002-10-ENG.pdf . However, as the instructions cover a range of different products you've got the challenge of figuring out what is relevant. Step one is removing the left crank after which you can closely look at the bottom bracket.

It's not square taper, but I don't believe these are the right instructions. Looks to me that this is an Octalink crankset, which shimano made between the square taper and the current Hollowtech. Removing Octalink cranks is exactly the same as removing square taper, just remove the bolt with an allen key and use a crank puller. Afraid I don't know anything about the bottom bracket bearings, but if it's working fine just refit it. If you need to replace it, it should have the necessary model number and sizing information on it

[Matt2matt2002]

Have you removed the tires yet?
Rim tape ok? Always good to check it when buying a new/old bike.

Best

Matt

[ourclarioncall]

Have you removed the tires yet?
Rim tape ok? Always good to check it when buying a new/old bike.

Best

Matt

Yeah took them off to drill the rims out for schrader valves are there was rather old looking rim tape on. I’m running new tubes now and all is working well. I did consider getting new fresh rim tape at some point .

I was considering new rims but have decided to keep these for now and get them trued. I tried myself but it seems like quite a skilled job to get it where you want it .

[ourclarioncall]

That bolt under the bottom bracket definitely looks like a drain plug (what else can it be?) so temporarily remove it and see if anything comes out when the bike is the right way up. Normally the bolt should be in place to stop the hole being a point of water ingress. The hole will also be useful for squirting in some anti-corrosion treatment.

Going back to your question about tyres http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=14592.msg109480#msg109480, if they feel unstable when cornering then they are most likely too soft. You need to get a fairly good pressure gauge. I wouldn't trust one that costs less than £5 or is on a very cheap hand pump but a £20 floor pump with a dial gauge should be fairly accurate. Manufacturers give recommended pressures although the ideal pressure for an individual depends on their weight and preference in the balance between rolling resistance (higher pressure) and comfort (lower pressure). Harder is better until you start feeling every imperfection in the road surfaces.

There's a bewildering range of Schwalbe Marathon tyres with the only thing in common being the name plus greater puncture resistance compared to lighter, more supple tyres. Your options will be reduced by your wheel size. Marathon Plus is in the middle of the range. Marathon Supreme is smoother and should have better rolling resistance while, at the other end of the range, the Marathon Mondial has a chunky tread for extra grip on loose surfaces.

Yeah I’m feeling a lot better about the tyres and cornering

I think you see right that the front was too soft . When the bike was delivered one of the tyres was flat so had to pump it up . It may have been the front I’m not sure .

But yeah , I had no idea what pressure the tyres were after pumping then both with new tubes . I was over cautious and pumped them surprisingly low which I only found out after a got a digital pressure gauge which I’m really impressed with.

A good pump came with bike but it seems like it’s ceased and I can’t turn it round to the schrader side for the new schrader valve tubes I bought , so got a cheapo from Halfords just to get by , but I’m struggling to get them up to 40 psi 😄 , my arms feel like they will explode . Thorn recommended 50 for rear and 45 for front for 1.75” tyres. I don’t even know if that figure is loaded or unloaded 🤔

I bought a pair of schwalbe marathon plus tours in 2.0” as I fancied a little more width and a little more grip for off-road .

I haven’t put them on yet as I wanted to give the 1.75” tyres that are currently on a proper go and see what I think of them . The rear is a marathon plus , and the front is a softer panaracer , it’s a pity they were not the same as I think that would be a better way to test the 1.75” size

I have been going out for long runs and increasing the tyre pressure each time . Not sure if I’m noticing a massive difference. Yet. Maybe once I get up a bit higher /hard I will have a better idea.

When I first put on the new schrader tubes I had pumps it up to 16 psi ! Not realising how low it was even it felt ok. I knew it was on the lower side but would never have thought it was that low. And it ran fine at that pressure. Then I read on schwalbe site that the traditional thumb press test which is normally quite reliable doesn’t work for the marathon tyres

[ourclarioncall]

I’m not too sure if it’s a square taper, I’m sure il find out soon enough. There was a guy on here that did up an exp like mine so I can check the bottom bracket he used if that will give me a clue 🕵🏻‍♂️

The Youtube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFg4OgeprHk shows a Shimano Deore XT crank. It's not square taper and the fitting / removal instructions are available here https://si.shimano.com/api/publish/storage/pdf/en/dm/MAFC002/DM-MAFC002-10-ENG.pdf . However, as the instructions cover a range of different products you've got the challenge of figuring out what is relevant. Step one is removing the left crank after which you can closely look at the bottom bracket.

It's not square taper, but I don't believe these are the right instructions. Looks to me that this is an Octalink crankset, which shimano made between the square taper and the current Hollowtech. Removing Octalink cranks is exactly the same as removing square taper, just remove the bolt with an allen key and use a crank puller. Afraid I don't know anything about the bottom bracket bearings, but if it's working fine just refit it. If you need to replace it, it should have the necessary model number and sizing information on it

Nice piece of info / history there 👍 thanks mate

[ourclarioncall]

Been busy with family life but managed to get both front and rear brakes on with new cables /cable housing

Got the friction shifters onto the jtek brackets and onto new Thorn comfort bar. I had a bit of friction with the friction shifters 😄 but I’m getting there. The left/front is okay but the right /rear is not quite right . Need to get it working properly. It’s a bit tricky getting them to work as you need to have the right amount of tension on them , but that same bolt is the bolt that goes through the jtek bracket and tightens the bracket to the handlebars . It kind I feels like you need a lot of pressure to tighten the jtek bracket to the handlebars but it’s maybe too much for the friction shifter.I could well be wrong tho, feelings are not that trustworthy as they. I would prefer different brackets like the “Paul “ ones that have a separate screw to attach the bracket to the bar , but they are not cheap and I might not need them .

I was tempted to ditch the friction shifters altogether but now they are 80% working I quite like them and move the solid click between gears .

I followed a video setting up friction shifters but mine did not perform like the ones In the video . I also have 3 barrel adjusters from the shifter to the derailleur so that was a bit intimidating. A friend has written down a fix so I can give that a try or it will be a trip to the LBS

The gearing seems ok,although some hills defeat me even on the lowest gear, so I think i would like some lower in the future especially if I’m loaded up.

Still had some knee pain. Could be a mix of things , monitiering it’s. I read that tight quads can pull from under the knee cap area . Hot bath can help the muscles loosen off. My bike fit is frustrating me as I keep experimenting but can’t find where I’m satisfied.

New thorn stem and spacers are on, I’m quite happy with the position the bars are in now . I actually bought a riser stem but for now I’m happy and won’t use it yet, might in the future .

I’m pondering whether the fork steerer tube has been cut lower. When I compare to the mk3 nomad stem specs it seems much shorter . If it is I wish I had the extra length , I think it would put the bars in a much better place

Now dynamo yet or lighting yet as I’m sticking with the original rims for the moment

26” Marathon plus tours 2.0” are waiting to go on, but for science sake wanted to give the 1.75” that are currently on a chance to show me what they can do. I’m happier with them now that there is a bit more pressure in them. I have a pressure gauge now so I know what they tyres are at. Cheap Halfords pump won’t let me get past 40 psi without ripping tendons off lol , so il get a better pump or a floor pump . I like the zefal? Zepal? Pump that came with bike but it seems like part of it is ceased and I can’t turn it over to the schrader side. Maybe in a vice it would come loose

Anyway , onwards and upwards

[JohnR]

A good pump came with bike but it seems like it’s ceased and I can’t turn it round to the schrader side for the new schrader valve tubes I bought , so got a cheapo from Halfords just to get by , but I’m struggling to get them up to 40 psi 😄 , my arms feel like they will explode . Thorn recommended 50 for rear and 45 for front for 1.75” tyres. I don’t even know if that figure is loaded or unloaded 🤔

I bought a pair of schwalbe marathon plus tours in 2.0” as I fancied a little more width and a little more grip for off-road .

I haven’t put them on yet as I wanted to give the 1.75” tyres that are currently on a proper go and see what I think of them . The rear is a marathon plus , and the front is a softer panaracer , it’s a pity they were not the same as I think that would be a better way to test the 1.75” size

I have been going out for long runs and increasing the tyre pressure each time . Not sure if I’m noticing a massive difference. Yet. Maybe once I get up a bit higher /hard I will have a better idea.

I like the Lezyne pumps which feel to be quality products (probikekit has a good selection). Almost all their hand pumps have a reversible flexible connector which fits both Presta and Schrader valves while Wiggle's Lifeline track pump https://www.wiggle.co.uk/lifeline-essential-track-pump has given me no problems and has a good pressure gauge.

Appropriate pressures depend on both the rider weight and the baggage load. If I can feel every little stone forming a road surface then the tyres are definitely too hard. As you've commented, the extra puncture protection built into the Marathon family makes them inherently stiffer which results in a firmer ride.

[PH]

26” Marathon plus tours 2.0” are waiting to go on,

Seriously, why would you want to do that? If the objective was to kill all the benefits of a decent bike I can't think of a better way to do it.
I get it if you were about to ride around the world, or if you had some time critical commute, or were incapable of fixing a puncture, but for every other circumstance there's better tyres.
If it was comfort you were looking for, you've just taken a step backwards, I'd put money on 2" Pluses having less flexibility than your current 1.75's.

[ourclarioncall]

Interesting. So are these tyres a bit like putting welly boots on a ballet dancer? 🙂

So what would you recommend?

I guess I don’t have any frame of reference to judge what’s good or not. At the moment I’m thinking along the lines of getting it expedition ready. So those tyres were an attempt to balance a few things like grip/safety/no fuss. I have no long bike tours lined up just yet but want to move in that direction

I took on board what you said about the 1.75” and decided to leave them on for now and give them a proper test so I can compare. But it seems like the front and back tyre are very different. So I don’t know if it’s a good way to test. One is a marathon plus and the other is a softer panaracer. I didn’t like the panaracer at first but I think that’s because there wasn’t enough air in it, but now it’s kind of growing on me I could buy another marathon plus and panaracer , then I’ve got 2 of each and can put the both panaracer on them both marathon plus on to compare

I may buy a variety of tyres at different widths and experiment

So what are my options if I were looking for speed or comfort ?

I did look at other non schwalbe tyres and would be open to buying them

[PH]

Interesting. So are these tyres a bit like putting welly boots on a ballet dancer? 🙂

... then expecting them to dance through treacle.

So what would you recommend?

it's 15+ years since I last had 26" wheels so I've not kept up. I notice SJS have some 2.15" Almotion, I don't know it they'd fit your frame, if so they'd be my first choice, the 26's are no longer listed by Schwalbe so maybe they've been dropped like several other 26" tyres.  I's all a compromise - speed, comfort, road grip, off-road grip, puncture protection, sidewall strength, longevity, price - you have to decide for yourself where the priorities are, in the case of the Pluses, they score great at the puncture protection and longevity and pretty poor at everything else. They have been shown to have good rolling resistances at similar pressures to other touring tyres, but at those pressures the comfort has fallen through the floor.  As I said in another of your threads, for a tyres that scores OK on all criteria, the standard Marathon take some beating.
But really this question would be better answered by those riding similar bikes to yours.