New (old) bike help required

[PH]

I like to spray ACF-50 into my frames once a year. I think we've had long threads about whether it's necessary or not, so I'm not saying it something you have to do, but it keeps me happy.
Water ingress - it's surprising home much can get in via the seatpost, I once took a bottom bracket out of a "dry" frame and a cup full of rusty water came out! Now as part of my pre winter maintenance, I take mine out and give it a coating of waterproof grease to act as a seal.

[ourclarioncall]

Can we see a picture of your ' drain plug '.
Reduced size picture works here.
It's not one of the bolts for adjusting the EBB?

I think youl get a good look at it in one of the videos I posted on my YouTube channel . This bike is derailleur so I wouldn’t have an eccentric would I ?

[ourclarioncall]

Can we see a picture of your ' drain plug '.
Reduced size picture works here.
It's not one of the bolts for adjusting the EBB?

Skip to about 4 minutes in for a close up

https://youtu.be/fFg4OgeprHk

[ourclarioncall]

A friend of mine that volunteers time as a bike mechanic at a charity is convinced that capilary action can draw water into the downtube through the water bottle cage bolt holes. 

For the reasons the Prince of Darkness points out two posts up from yours, this isn't possible if it's the frame with sealed tubes.
On any other frame without sealed bosses, I'd prefer to use threadlock rather than grease, both to do the job intended and to offer a longer lasting weather seal.

Ah right , so even on the unsealed tubes like the seat tube , they have still put sealed bosses so Water can’t Get into the seat tube ?

If all of these bottle bosses are sealed , should I still be putting a bit of grease on them to stop them ceasing up? In my very limited knowledge I was under the impression it’s always best to put grease on bolts to help get them off in the future

Then I watched a v brake video where the guy said not to but grease in the bosses but use a bolt with thread locker on it instead .

So some bolts have thread locker already pre-applied to them? Is this good or can it’s potency wear off ? Would it be better to buy your own thread locker and apply it yourself ? Do I win a prize for most questions asked in a single post ?😄

[ourclarioncall]

I like to spray ACF-50 into my frames once a year. I think we've had long threads about whether it's necessary or not, so I'm not saying it something you have to do, but it keeps me happy.
Water ingress - it's surprising home much can get in via the seatpost, I once took a bottom bracket out of a "dry" frame and a cup full of rusty water came out! Now as part of my pre winter maintenance, I take mine out and give it a coating of waterproof grease to act as a seal.

Yeah I was just recently reading the old posts on rust and your comments on ACF-50

This bike I have has some rusting around the seatpost down into the seat tube . Looks superficial but I don’t know how deep it goes

I’m not what would be the best way to clean it up as there looks like oil and dirt and surface rust all down in there

[JohnR]

That bolt under the bottom bracket definitely looks like a drain plug (what else can it be?) so temporarily remove it and see if anything comes out when the bike is the right way up. Normally the bolt should be in place to stop the hole being a point of water ingress. The hole will also be useful for squirting in some anti-corrosion treatment.

Going back to your question about tyres http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=14592.msg109480#msg109480, if they feel unstable when cornering then they are most likely too soft. You need to get a fairly good pressure gauge. I wouldn't trust one that costs less than £5 or is on a very cheap hand pump but a £20 floor pump with a dial gauge should be fairly accurate. Manufacturers give recommended pressures although the ideal pressure for an individual depends on their weight and preference in the balance between rolling resistance (higher pressure) and comfort (lower pressure). Harder is better until you start feeling every imperfection in the road surfaces.

There's a bewildering range of Schwalbe Marathon tyres with the only thing in common being the name plus greater puncture resistance compared to lighter, more supple tyres. Your options will be reduced by your wheel size. Marathon Plus is in the middle of the range. Marathon Supreme is smoother and should have better rolling resistance while, at the other end of the range, the Marathon Mondial has a chunky tread for extra grip on loose surfaces.

[PH]

Then I watched a v brake video where the guy said not to but grease in the bosses but use a bolt with thread locker on it instead .

So some bolts have thread locker already pre-applied to them? Is this good or can it’s potency wear off ? Would it be better to buy your own thread locker and apply it yourself ?

Grease, Copperslip, Threadlock, really take your pick, the only thing you can be certain of is that something is better than nothing.  I like threadlock for bolts that are not routinely being removed, it seals as well as grease, doesn't dry out or wash away. If I buy something with threadlock already applied I don't add any more, but If I'm refitting, or using new bolts, I'll apply it myself.

Do I win a prize for most questions asked in a single post ?

[mickeg]

...
Then I watched a v brake video where the guy said not to but grease in the bosses but use a bolt with thread locker on it instead .

So some bolts have thread locker already pre-applied to them? Is this good or can it’s potency wear off ? Would it be better to buy your own thread locker and apply it yourself ? Do I win a prize for most questions asked in a single post ?😄

The way I do it is:

• Rack bolts, shoe cleat bolts, kickstand bolts, they get locktite, or one of the competing brands.  Removable type.  Things like brake bolts, the loctite comes pre-applied to it.  If I remove the bolt, I might add more or might not bother depending on how it looks.
• Water bottle cage bolts, seatpost clamp bolt, stem and handlebar clamp bolts, they get grease.
• Fender (mudguard) bolts, sometimes loctite and sometimes grease, I am not consistent on those.  But if I put a nylock nut on the bolt, then I do not bother with loctite.

The grease might not sound logical but it is easy to lose a bolt that can vibrate if it comes lose, but grease is a viscous fluid and it is less likely to shake out from vibration with grease on it.

[Danneaux]

I often use blue/medium Loctite as a threadlocking compound...when I am not using kneaded beeswax.

Beeswax makes a dandy threadlocker and I often carry a small ball of it on tour with my tools. I usually buy the filtered kind so there aren't impurities like legs, wings, and debris to deal with.

The key to success with it is to break off a chunk about the size of a golf ball, then thoroughly knead it by hand. This permanently changes the consistency from flaky to moldable and it can then be rubbed onto threads or molded into them, as desired. I often use it to coat drywall and wood screws as a lubricant because they turn in to hardwoods more easily and with less strain on my power driver, then "set" in the beeswax once they are screwed fully home. Beeswax is naturally water repellent, seems to be nonreactive with everything it encounters and once set in place, I've never had a machine screw/bolt/nut back off provided it was properly torqued to spec. n 45 years, I have not found a better threadlocker for the locknut on threaded steerers intended for use with quill stems. I also use it to plug the brazing vent holes on my frame tubes after treating the interiors with an anti-corrosive. If you need to re-treat, it is simple to push the beeswax plug through using a cocktail toothpick and replug after.

Try it sometime, you might be pleasantly surprised.

Best, Dan.

[Prince of Darkness]

My XTC also has a drain plug in the bottom bracket. If any water were to get into the seat tube, it would drain down into the bottom bracket, from which it could be drained. I do remember that Thorn recommended using waxoyl to treat the inside of the seat tube, bottom bracket, head tube and the stearer, though obviously other products can be used

[ourclarioncall]

Thanks for the replies guys

Sorry i do t give as many quality replies as I would like as life is hectic and I’m never on a computer just my phone

Just put in another sjs order which socks arrive tommorow 😄

Before putting on new parts I’m thinking about cleaning up areas of the frame . One of them being the seat tube which does have a bit of rust on the top of the tube and down inside . It looks a bit mucky and there is some oil too. I’m not sure the best way to approach a good deep clean

1. I guess first off I would need to remove the cranks /bottom bracket etc. I’ve never done it and don’t have the tools but can learn and get the tools … if there is no chance of me damaging anything

2. The seat tube and bottom bracket needs cleaned . Not sure the best approach . I guess some rags or cloths could help cleanup the oil . Then I need to remove the rust . This video has quite an interesting technique with a coat hanger in a drill with wire wool attached to one end https://youtu.be/xRIFqasCOSg

3. If I managed to clean up the rust, would I bother applying some sort of rust eater/preventer just to make sure anything that might be left is confronted ? Or could I skip this stage ?

4. Finishing with protecting the seat tube and bottom bracket  oil/wax/grease . I read the comments of a chemist that he recommends using Vaseline as it’s not water soluble and there is something about grease , even marine grease that is . Marine grease is great as a lubricant, Vaseline isn’t as good , but your goal is to protect from water which he says Vaseline /petroleum jelly is a better option. So hmmm 🤔

[mickeg]

I do not recall if your bike has a square taper crank or not.  If it is, they are easy to remove, but you need a crank puller and the bottom bracket has a special tool too.  Installing the crank arms on a square taper crank is one thing that I use a torque wrench on.  I use a half inch drive torque wrench, my bottom bracket tool also works on half inch drive.  And I bought the correct size allen wrench tool that fits on that torque wrench to install crank arm bolts.

If not square taper, can't help.

I use a product called Frame Saver on insides of frame tubes but I do not know if it is sold outside USA.  I have heard of people that use Linseed Oil instead to put a rust limiting coating on steel.  If you use any Linseed Oil, the used rags can spontaneously combust if disposed wrong, do some internet searching to find out how to avoid burning down your home.  Just in case any water got into your downtube in the bottle cage bolt holes, that frame tube could use treatment too.

[ourclarioncall]

Wow, fast paced , info overload

Rust protector product tests

https://youtu.be/wBgF07I7TQM

[ourclarioncall]

I do not recall if your bike has a square taper crank or not.  If it is, they are easy to remove, but you need a crank puller and the bottom bracket has a special tool too.  Installing the crank arms on a square taper crank is one thing that I use a torque wrench on.  I use a half inch drive torque wrench, my bottom bracket tool also works on half inch drive.  And I bought the correct size allen wrench tool that fits on that torque wrench to install crank arm bolts.

If not square taper, can't help.

I use a product called Frame Saver on insides of frame tubes but I do not know if it is sold outside USA.  I have heard of people that use Linseed Oil instead to put a rust limiting coating on steel.  If you use any Linseed Oil, the used rags can spontaneously combust if disposed wrong, do some internet searching to find out how to avoid burning down your home.  Just in case any water got into your downtube in the bottle cage bolt holes, that frame tube could use treatment too.

I’m not too sure if it’s a square taper, I’m sure il find out soon enough. There was a guy on here that did up an exp like mine so I can check the bottom bracket he used if that will give me a clue 🕵🏻‍♂️

[JohnR]

I’m not too sure if it’s a square taper, I’m sure il find out soon enough. There was a guy on here that did up an exp like mine so I can check the bottom bracket he used if that will give me a clue 🕵🏻‍♂️

The Youtube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFg4OgeprHk shows a Shimano Deore XT crank. It's not square taper and the fitting / removal instructions are available here https://si.shimano.com/api/publish/storage/pdf/en/dm/MAFC002/DM-MAFC002-10-ENG.pdf . However, as the instructions cover a range of different products you've got the challenge of figuring out what is relevant. Step one is removing the left crank after which you can closely look at the bottom bracket.