Thorn Cycles Forum
Technical => General Technical => Topic started by: ourclarioncall on May 11, 2022, 02:38:37 pm
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Ok, wondering if you folks could give me some advice and thoughts on my new bike . I believe it’s a thorn exp but could be wrong . It seems to tick all the boxes
I made a YouTube video going round the bike to show the condition and components here https://youtu.be/fFg4OgeprHk
I took it out for its first ride and wow, what a bike ! I can see why they have a good rep. Or steelbikes in general.
Before I rode the bike my thoughts were that I would not get on with drop bars . My suspicion was right . They are definitely not for me, but I wanted to give them a chance. They actually feel quite dangerous . There could be reasons for that tho. Such as they are not at the right position and the steering is very fast and twitchy. I don’t like that I have to move down to the drops to use the brakes and change gears. And the brakes and gears are not close to each other as on straight bars. I did like some of the positions up top but too narrow for me. I could use the brakes on the hoods but didn’t feel right . That was my impression anyway. Felt very unsecure and having to keep moving hand positions seems like sooner or later an accident waiting to happen. Sorry to bash dropbars, perhaps on a different bike setup differently I’d like them but I’m just reviews this bike . The drops are pretty cool for hills .
Kinda like the gears but not where they are located on the bars
The bike feels totally different to everything I’ve ever heard about Thorn bikes ! Well , heavier duty bikes like the Raven up through to the nomad .
This bike feels light to me! And it feels fast ! I don’t get it . It makes me wonder if I really do have an exp or if it’s a different lighter model
It could be that it’s a bit of an illusion. It’s got 1.75 tyres which are the thinnest I’ve had on a bike and also the steering is so fast and twitchy.
Not sure if they wheels are true , they look a bit wobbly when spinning
Tyres I’m not sure , I don’t know what pressure they are at and how much tread is left but they feel good to ride
Rims , not sure how worn , could check with a straight edge?
Front bottle dynamo doesn’t work , will have to take a closer look
Rear lights works and has different settings
Zepal frame pump - after I figured out how to get it off the frame I was really impressed with it . I normally dislike presta valves but I managed to pump the tyre up which was flat first time and the pump had a great stable feel while pumping .
Frame had rust and was sanded to bare steel and treated . There are some rust spots and I think inside the seat tube is a bit of superficial rust . The seat post is well oiled .
I’m looking at leaving the bike as is for the moment but definitely want to convey to straight bars or thorns comfort bars look good . Was just dining some measurements and thinking about the position they would put me in
The problems are what to do about brakes and gears when doing the conversion
Thanks 😊
Very happy with my new bike !
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Bike looks good if a bit under lubricated on the moving parts.
It is worth trying the drop bars for some time to see if you get to like them.
Moving to straight type bars will put you in a more upright position for braking and changing gear as all the bar is nearer to you.
A wider bar can be more comfortable for your stance and gripping the bars, it depends on your body shape and what you are used to.
If you do go to straight bars I recommend the handlebar grips with platform extensions to reduce pressure such as ergon gp1.
You may find a more upright position needs a slightly wider saddle for comfort.
Gear changers and brake levers for straight bars will probably need to be different ones from the drop handlebar ones.
I suspect you would need to replace the cables at the same time to get them all working.
I would look for recommendations from other forum users as just what to decide on given a variety of costs, someone will have done this in the past.
I hope this helps.
Julian
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Have a look in the archive for further, useful info
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=6975.0
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Gave her a bath and some Lube
Some close up of the dropouts etc . Should this area have any sort of lubricant /protection on it? There was plenty grime I cleaned out but not sure if there is supposed to be grease or oil of anything . Or would the axl/the bit that touches the drop out be lubricated ?
https://youtu.be/weagL50OvEY
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Have a look in the archive for further, useful info
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=6975.0
Thanks , yeah had a good trawl through there recently and it seemed to me the exp was the one that looked most likely .
The pannier racks, the double crown fork, the fillet brazing, the “x” piece at the seat stays .
Maybe if I had heavier wheels with bigger tyres it would “feel” a bit more heavy 🤔 I dunno
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Bike looks good if a bit under lubricated on the moving parts.
It is worth trying the drop bars for some time to see if you get to like them.
Moving to straight type bars will put you in a more upright position for braking and changing gear as all the bar is nearer to you.
A wider bar can be more comfortable for your stance and gripping the bars, it depends on your body shape and what you are used to.
If you do go to straight bars I recommend the handlebar grips with platform extensions to reduce pressure such as ergon gp1.
You may find a more upright position needs a slightly wider saddle for comfort.
Gear changers and brake levers for straight bars will probably need to be different ones from the drop handlebar ones.
I suspect you would need to replace the cables at the same time to get them all working.
I would look for recommendations from other forum users as just what to decide on given a variety of costs, someone will have done this in the past.
I hope this helps.
Julian
Just gave it a good clean and got some gt58 lube on it
I’ve adjusted the drops into a more extreme upright position and hopefully go for a run tonight and see how it feels. I guess I’m just used to straight bars on mountain bikes /hybrid bikes. I only ever had a drop bar bike once for a short time before I got a puncture and it was relegated to the shed. I’m sure I went over the handlebars when pulling the front brake. All my friends started getting mountain bikes so I got one too , about age 10 I think it was .
Thanks Julian , yeah my body shape is a bit quirky , long legs short torso , tight hamstrings /lower back . I could never cross my legs like all the other to eat kids In primary school 😊
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Wondering if the front bottle dynamo can be fixed
All the connections seem ok.
As I found out after I washed the bike and open the light , water gets in. The bulb seems ok. Can think of what it could be . Something internal where moisture has gotten in over the years? Something wrong with the bit that touches the tyre ? Well, it seems to spin fine.
Maybe me spinning the front wheel wasn’t fast enough to make the light work ?
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This bike feels light to me! And it feels fast ! I don’t get it .
This is not a bad problem to have! ;D
All congratulations on your new bike. It is very nicely designed and constructed and I think will surprise you in many positive ways.
Best,
Dan.
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Just passed ourclarioncall and this fine machine, at about 8:45 PM ;D I was returning from work on my Raven Sport Tour and he was going the other way. Really sorry I didn't stop for a quick chat, but I was a bit slow figuring out who it was :( Great machine, with a frame built by Kevin Sayles (you can see the KS stamp on the bottom bracket). Dynamo seemed to be working fine, but if you have any problems with it, I have one going spare :)
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Just passed ourclarioncall and this fine machine, at about 8:45 PM ;D I was returning from work on my Raven Sport Tour and he was going the other way. Really sorry I didn't stop for a quick chat, but I was a bit slow figuring out who it was :( Great machine, with a frame built by Kevin Sayles (you can see the KS stamp on the bottom bracket). Dynamo seemed to be working fine, but if you have any problems with it, I have one going spare :)
How’s it going !! I was just thinking about you recently when I got the bike and went and re-read the messages you had posted as I couldn’t remember what bike it was you said you had
So it’s the xtc you have ? And a Raven sport tour
I thought about saying hello properly but didn’t know if you’d recognise me and didn’t want to make you abruptly stop while you were cycling ! Next time we can can chat if you have a minute
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This bike feels light to me! And it feels fast ! I don’t get it .
This is not a bad problem to have! ;D
All congratulations on your new bike. It is very nicely designed and constructed and I think will surprise you in many positive ways.
Best,
Dan.
Thanks Dan , absolutely, I’m blown away . It’s got a nice bouncy springy-ness to it. I don’t know if that because the tyres are not full enough or if it’s the frame or a combination of both .
Like being in another world , can’t go back to “normal “ bikes now. Almost feel guilty for paying so little for it .
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And some might have thought the questions would end when you found a bike....
Only kidding, glad to see your enthusiasm, ask away ;)
It took me a while to get used to drops, I had them on my first proper touring bike because it was considered the right thing to have, I know some treat it as heresy, but I really don't know what the fuss is about. I still have one drop bar bike, but most of my riding has gravitated back to straight bars, for me there's no advantage or disadvantage in riding position, put the controls on straight bars are IMO superior, even more so with a Rohloff.
If you do swap - you might need a different stem, both for the clamp size and length to compensate for the shorter reach, it's hard to judge unless the position is already spot on, but there's plenty of cheap stems around to experiment with. The same gear shifters can be converted for straight bar use with an SJS part (I'll add the link) These make for my favorite type of shifter, friction on the front so never any chain rub and the option of friction on the rear. They're not cheap and they do paint you into a corner, you can probably find complete decent shifters for not my more. For rim brakes with flat bars, just get V's, i can't think of any reason anyone wouldn't.
As for what bike it is - I don't know much about Thorn earlier models, logic would suggest the beefed up bridge indicates heavier duty, but things are not always logical. Glad you like the feel, I don't like to put a damper on that, but new bikes always feel great, well nearly always, it takes me a while to decide.
It all looks in reasonable used but not abused condition, keep the rust off and the chain oiled and it could outlive us all.
Bar end to thumbie converters
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/gear-spares/jtek-special-thumb-shifter-brackets-for-222-mm-bars-black/
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Wondering if the front bottle dynamo can be fixed
All the connections seem ok.
As I found out after I washed the bike and open the light , water gets in. The bulb seems ok. Can think of what it could be . Something internal where moisture has gotten in over the years? Something wrong with the bit that touches the tyre ? Well, it seems to spin fine.
Maybe me spinning the front wheel wasn’t fast enough to make the light work ?
IF the bulb is OK, maybe the wiring is broken somewhere ?
Anyway, I wouldn't use bike lamps with bulbs nowadays, modern LED lamps are much brighter and IMO safer as they are more visible to motor traffic.
I prefer a hub dynamo, but if it still works the bottle dynamo you have is one of the better ones and would be worth keeping if you don't leave your lighting on all the time as I do (Bottle dynamo a bit more drag than a hub dynamo when operating, but no drag at all when off, even the best hub dynamos have a bit of drag when the lighting is switched off)
If you don't intend riding much at night or in bad visibility (rain, fog, etc.) a LED front lamp that uses rechargeable batteries might be a good choice. No drag at all, but you need to think about recharging the batteries and maybe carrying spares.
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PH
LOL 😊
Indeed , I could hear the relief of the entire internet- “FINALLY he’s got a bike ! We can rest “ 😆
Yeah I’m ready to drop the drops (no offence drop fans 😬) I had a “woah” moment tonight while turning and it is hard to describe what happened but I was going slow-ish and turning and lost control for a second . Seems like the bars turn so fast and with the narrow position on the bars I felt out of control. Maybe not the drops daily but seemed like it was a contributing factor . I definitely want a wider position. Either straight bars or something like the thorn comfort bar.
I keep going into a position where I want to be more upright and my thumbs push gainer the bar. I want to be a few inches higher , few inches wider and a few inches back . I think the Thorn comfort bars will put me in the ballpark as they rise and sweep back . I was measuring today and looks good
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Wondering if the front bottle dynamo can be fixed
All the connections seem ok.
As I found out after I washed the bike and open the light , water gets in. The bulb seems ok. Can think of what it could be . Something internal where moisture has gotten in over the years? Something wrong with the bit that touches the tyre ? Well, it seems to spin fine.
Maybe me spinning the front wheel wasn’t fast enough to make the light work ?
IF the bulb is OK, maybe the wiring is broken somewhere ?
Anyway, I wouldn't use bike lamps with bulbs nowadays, modern LED lamps are much brighter and IMO safer as they are more visible to motor traffic.
I prefer a hub dynamo, but if it still works the bottle dynamo you have is one of the better ones and would be worth keeping if you don't leave your lighting on all the time as I do (Bottle dynamo a bit more drag than a hub dynamo when operating, but no drag at all when off, even the best hub dynamos have a bit of drag when the lighting is switched off)
If you don't intend riding much at night or in bad visibility (rain, fog, etc.) a LED front lamp that uses rechargeable batteries might be a good choice. No drag at all, but you need to think about recharging the batteries and maybe carrying spares.
The wires and connections look ok, not seeing any damage . So, I dunno. I have been researching dynamo hubs and lighting solutions. I like the look of the klite usb powered Qube lights as well as a few others
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Good luck with the bike and sorting it to your tastes and needs.
Drops / straights?? Very much a personal choice; I rode straight bars for years / decades but have adapted better than I expected to the drops on my Audax. I think a lot depends on riding style, terrain etc. - I and most others prefer straight bars for trail riding.
The brakes - I think they are called centre-pull or cantilever? For years they were standard on most bikes, now largely replaced by v-brakes where rim brakes used. Would you replace them with v-brakes or are they fine as they are? If you do decide to replace the lighting system with bar mounted kit, and retain the centre-pull brakes, bear in mind that the stud / front light bracket from the fork crown is an essential safety feature of centre-pull brakes - without that, if the brake cable breaks or slackens off inadvertently, the springs can pull the 'joining' cable down onto the tyre and jam the wheel (not sure of my terms here) - at least, so I was told years ago, and I never wanted to test that out!
And it's surprising how better bikes feel when they are clean and well lubed and maintained! An extra 10 miles a day I reckon . . . .
Lewis
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Good luck with the bike and sorting it to your tastes and needs.
Drops / straights?? Very much a personal choice; I rode straight bars for years / decades but have adapted better than I expected to the drops on my Audax. I think a lot depends on riding style, terrain etc. - I and most others prefer straight bars for trail riding.
The brakes - I think they are called centre-pull or cantilever? For years they were standard on most bikes, now largely replaced by v-brakes where rim brakes used. Would you replace them with v-brakes or are they fine as they are? If you do decide to replace the lighting system with bar mounted kit, and retain the centre-pull brakes, bear in mind that the stud / front light bracket from the fork crown is an essential safety feature of centre-pull brakes - without that, if the brake cable breaks or slackens off inadvertently, the springs can pull the 'joining' cable down onto the tyre and jam the wheel (not sure of my terms here) - at least, so I was told years ago, and I never wanted to test that out!
And it's surprising how better bikes feel when they are clean and well lubed and maintained! An extra 10 miles a day I reckon . . . .
Lewis
Thanks Lewis , I hadn’t thought through the brakes yet other than they are a bit weak, maybe the pads need adjusted or renewed. I will take a closer look. I think I see what you mean about the brakes cables And the bracket thing the light is attached to which sort of catches it a bit if it were to snap somewhere
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I forget that I am almost 17 stone (I feel like I’m 12 inside ) (I’m in my 40’s and also feel like I’m 21 lol)
If I lose a few stone the bike will feel even quicker than it already does . Maybe ? . But that would be a bonus
I wasn’t sure if I could change the current brakes to v brakes , would that work ok ? I might not do it yet but maybe later
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I wasn’t sure if I could change the current brakes to v brakes , would that work ok ? I might not do it yet but maybe later
You can, though they have to be matched to the appropriate lever.
Those brakes should work fine, they look well set up with a good straddle cable angle, cleaning the rims thoroughly might help as might better blocks.
Those levers match those brakes, if you fit V brakes you'll need V brake levers which have more cable pull, if you change to straight bars you may as well change the brakes, but I wouldn't bother otherwise.
Lighting - if you've nothing better to do it might be fun to get that setup working, but really by modern standards it'll be pretty rubbish even if you do. Any tenner battery LED light is likely to be brighter. I'm a fan of hub dynamo LED systems for bikes that are going to be used in the dark a lot, but it's an expensive upgrade for those that are not, my bikes are half and half, top quality dynamo system or cheap battery light in the saddlebag.
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bear in mind that the stud / front light bracket from the fork crown is an essential safety feature of centre-pull brakes - without that, if the brake cable breaks or slackens off inadvertently, the springs can pull the 'joining' cable down onto the tyre and jam the wheel (not sure of my terms here) - at least, so I was told years ago, and I never wanted to test that out!
Lewis
Not with mudguards fitted it won't ;)
This was an issue when knobbly tyred MTB's were the norm, Shimano introduced their own link wire to overcome it, which instead of a one wire yoke, had the main cable running all the way down to one arm. But the best way to stop it was always to take care of your cables!
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Lighting - if you've nothing better to do it might be fun to get that setup working, but really by modern standards it'll be pretty rubbish even if you do. Any tenner battery LED light is likely to be brighter.
Agree. But it was a very good setup about 25 years ago, much better than most of the lighting systems available in the 1970's.
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You have cantilever brakes. Centerpull brakes are similar but do not have cantilever posts installed on the frame or fork. That said, some people call the ones you have centerpull cantilever.
This would be a centerpull brake. I can't say what era they were common in, but in early 70s when I worked at a bike shop they were common then. I have an early 60s bike that also had them. But I can't say when they stopped being common.
https://velobase.com/ViewComponent.aspx?ID=24214e28-8234-434b-9f67-841c14823b1d
Try the canti brakes first before you think about replacement. I have canti brakes on my rando bike, my Thorn Sherpa (medium touring bike), and my errand bike.
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Those B&M dynamos are pretty good. I used to use one and the only issue I ever had with it was a tendency for the roller to lose grip in heavy rain, which is obviously not good. They do an all weather roller, which is basically a wire brush. It's supposed to cure the slippage problem, but I can't imagine it being good for the tyres! A major upgrade is to replace the halogen headlight with a LED, this gives much more light. I upgraded to a Schmidt hub unit, which is significantly better, so the B&M is available free if you want it :)
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You have cantilever brakes. Centerpull brakes are similar but do not have cantilever posts installed on the frame or fork. That said, some people call the ones you have centerpull cantilever.
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Try the canti brakes first before you think about replacement. I have canti brakes on my rando bike, my Thorn Sherpa (medium touring bike), and my errand bike.
My recent experiemce endorses that suggestion. I had good cantilever brakes in good shape on the Trek I replaced last year with my Thorn Mercury.
The Mercury has a V-brake up front and a mechanical disk brake at the rear.
One thing I did not notice after the switch was greatly superior braking.
I am not convinced the V-brake was designed to improve braking power, even though it has the potential to do so through an increase in leverage.
I think it was designed mainly to save weight. When introduced on mountain bikes, V-brakes came with much smaller and shorter brake levers. The increased mechanical advantage of he V-brake caliper allowed the design to accept reduced mechanical advantage at the lever.
The levers on my Trek (straight 'bars) look like motorcycle brake levers by comparison. But they allow me to apply lots of force.
Having said that, if you're switching to straight 'bars and therefore need new levers anyway, you'll likely find V-brake lever and caliper combos easy to come by and they should fit the same frameposts as the cantilever units.
Its a long while since I've used drop handlebars but FWIW I used them exclusively in my 20s and I do think they offer a better range of hand positions than straight bars, even with the Ergon grips and bar ends now recommended by Thorn. You can ride up on the flats, or with your hands in several places around the initial curves, or forward on the brake hoods, or when climbing, facing a headwind or maximising descent speed either forward on the drops or right down on the drops.
No doubt though, access to brakes and gears is inferior. I never found the brake side of that a problem for road use. But it would annoy me a lot these days on gravel descents, where I would be forced onto the drops if I wanted swift access to maximum braking power.
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...if you're switching to straight 'bars and therefore need new levers anyway, you'll likely find V-brake lever and caliper combos easy to come by and they should fit the same frameposts as the cantilever units.
The bosses are compatible but the spacing may not be. In my experience, "yes" if the bike/fork is spaced /intended for use with tires wider than 32mm as commonly found on bikes equipped 26in wheels; less so on 700C road tourers and many hybrids. I have a number of early 1980s road tourers that have canti-brake bosses that will accept v-brakes, but...the spacing between the bosses is too narrow to accommodate v-brakes no matter how the spherical washers/spacers are juggled. You just can't achieve a good arm angle and so they tilt out a long ways at the ends and it can be difficult to impossible to get a good approach angle for the brake pads to hit the rim squarely.
The solution in many (but not all) cases is the "mini-v" brake, which often allows for closer spacing. It also has a cable pull ratio compatible with canti- or road drop-bar brake levers.
Best,
Dan.
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Thanks for clearing that up, Dan.
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...if you're switching to straight 'bars and therefore need new levers anyway, you'll likely find V-brake lever and caliper combos easy to come by and they should fit the same frameposts as the cantilever units.
The bosses are compatible but the spacing may not be.
I'd say almost certainly V's are suitable for that bike, the flat bar version would have come with V's as standard, I can't imagine they'd reset everything for the drop bar frames. Easy enough to measure, 80mm is probably ideal, anything over 75 will be fine, under that and the rim width and dropout to boss measurement starts to play a part.
My opinion on the difference between cantis and V's is that well set up cantis offer the same braking as V's which are far more tolerant of not being perfectly set up. For example, I never adjust my V brake blocks at the brake, I have them set to be optimal at the mid wear point and take the slack out at the lever. The mechanical advantage remans the same, they're not technically called linear pull brakes for nothing. The mechanical advantage of many cantilever brakes is dependent on the angle of the straddle wire, pad wear should be taken out there rather than the lever cable.
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Mini-V brakes might not fit if you use fenders (mudguards).
Generally a mini-V has an arm about 85mm from the center of pivot to cable. I have mini-V brakes on my folding bike, I have 40mm wide tires on that bike and no fenders. I initially used cantilever brakes, but the folding mechanism created some odd cable routing on the rear that proved problematic for cantilever brake in rear. When I changed that to mini-V, I also changed the front for no particular reason.
My Nomad Mk II uses a Tektro V brake, I do not recall the model, the arms are 110mm long. Because I use road brake (short cable pull) brake levers I used a Travel Agent to accommodate the change. There is no way that a mini-V would have fit with an arm length that is 25mm shorter. I use fenders on this bike, and with 57mm wide tires, I need long brake arms to clear it. Photo attached, sorry about the focus, auto-focus cameras often focus on the wrong thing and in this case the focus is on the ground in the background.
As I previously noted, my suggestion is to try the cantilever brakes first.
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Greetings again
Okay just did a bit of homework and testing of the bike
Put in an order to sjs for
Thorn Comfort Bar
Ergon grips
Jtek friction shifter adapter thingys
Barrel adjuster for jtek thingy
Thorn stem
Couple sets of various size spacers
V brake levers
I’ve stolen the v brakes off another bike I had and they seem to work fine , well the front one, I’ve yet to do the rear
I think the only thing I didn’t get was a new headset , as I didn’t know much about them . I’ve watched a few videos on installation and removal of headsets
I see you need special tools or can diy it with other methods .
Just wondering which kind to get , and also their longevity and do they wear out or parts need replacing over time ?
The one I’ve got might be fine …. But it’s not black is it ?! 😄😄
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Those B&M dynamos are pretty good. I used to use one and the only issue I ever had with it was a tendency for the roller to lose grip in heavy rain, which is obviously not good. They do an all weather roller, which is basically a wire brush. It's supposed to cure the slippage problem, but I can't imagine it being good for the tyres! A major upgrade is to replace the halogen headlight with a LED, this gives much more light. I upgraded to a Schmidt hub unit, which is significantly better, so the B&M is available free if you want it :)
I did notice the drag of the dynamo while in lowest gear going up hill. I couldn’t get it working and just took it off. Thanks for the offer , I think I will just continue to spend money lol and either get a dynamo and new front wheel or get modern led lights on the handlebar
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I quite like the canti brakes , and I like the look
I have a couple of bikes in the garden with with v brakes so thought I would try them as I needed some brake levers after taking everything off the drop bars . They seem to work ok temporarily
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While I’m doing this work I was wondering if it would be a good time to treat any rust
Or to clean up the inside of the head tube ? Is that what is called? The bit the fork goes through
Should I put any kind of oil or grease or wax inside this tube to protect it from future rust ?
Also I thought I read not to put any grease on the fork , well the bit that the stem attaches too as I could slip off and be dangerous ? Think I read that in Thorn literature a long time ago
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I think I will just continue to spend money lol
Good news! ;D If you do enough of this, eventually the bits can be transferred to a new frame and the old one sold on (or kept...can never have too many. n+1). Even if the new frame is for a Rohloff drivetrain, the other things can be swapped.
I have a number of bikes and they have now formed a sort of food chain. When I improve one, the "other children" get the hand-me-downs so in effect upgrading one upgrades the others as well.
So pleased to find you've got a bike to actually start playing with. It is grand learning experience in every sense, often as much fun as the actual riding!
I was wondering if it would be a good time to treat any rust
It is never too early to treat it. If left, it it can become too late.
Or to clean up the inside of the head tube ? Is that what is called? The bit the fork goes through
Yep. Much easier while the bike is apart.
Should I put any kind of oil or grease or wax inside this tube to protect it from future rust ?
I would. Automobile panel cavity spray (like Waxoyl) or bicycle-specific Framesaver are good. Or you could go old school and boil linseed oil and pour in the vent holes (horribly messy and can clog threads) or straighten a coat hanger and form a small loop to hold an oil-soaked rag you can swab up and down inside the main tubes. All worked back in the day but the modern sprays are much more convenient and ultimately more effective, requiring less retreatment.
Also I thought I read not to put any grease on the fork , well the bit that the stem attaches too as I could slip off and be dangerous ? Think I read that in Thorn literature a long time ago
Yes, that was the word. I sprayed on and wiped off some Boeshield and have had no problems and no rust on the paintless steerer to date. The current Thorn fork steerers have an ED treatment that prevents rust.
Best,
Dan.
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I think the only thing I didn’t get was a new headset , as I didn’t know much about them . I’ve watched a few videos on installation and removal of headsets
I see you need special tools or can diy it with other methods .
Just wondering which kind to get , and also their longevity and do they wear out or parts need replacing over time ?
The one I’ve got might be fine …. But it’s not black is it ?! 😄😄
If it works, keep it. But be careful if you disassemble things that you remember what order what parts go together in what orientation.
I do not know if that is the Orbit XL or not. If it is, the attached may be applicable. I do not know why I have two versions of graphics, attached both. Third attachment is a photo of my headset parts in order without the frame, if I travel with the fork out of the frame this is how I store all those parts.
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Ok, so just drilled out my rims and filed them for schrader valves .
Away to see if I can get my rims trued up at Halfords and get some new schrader inner tubes
I want to get new tyres but not sure what to get
I like the 1.75 ones that are on but feel a bit cautious with them. I don’t know what it is , if it’s because the frame is shorter, or I’m higher up , or it’s the tyre or it’s the tyre pressure or it’s the tyre width …… but every time I turn the front wheel it feels like the wheel could easily slip on small stones /gravel ? That you find everywhere on roads and paths. Or it just feels unstable or I’m not in control . I’m scared to lean into corners .
I don’t know what my tyre pressure is but might try and get one of those things that tells you.
The front tyre feels very soft and spongy and bouncy which I quite like but maybe it’s causing some of the issue . Maybe the sidewalks are not firm and stable enough? Hmm
On the topic of tyre this site is pretty interesting
https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/tour-reviews/schwalbe-marathon-2015
I’m just looking for a good all round tyre for roads /pavement /trails etc. Grip and puncture protection would be priority’s but ultimately safety first . I would rather have a tyre that is going to grip the road well .
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Dan
Thanks for the info 👍 I love the detail 🙂
One of my friends said whatever i do don’t throw out the drop bars I just took off , so he will be getting them in the post 😄
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I think the only thing I didn’t get was a new headset , as I didn’t know much about them . I’ve watched a few videos on installation and removal of headsets
I see you need special tools or can diy it with other methods .
Just wondering which kind to get , and also their longevity and do they wear out or parts need replacing over time ?
The one I’ve got might be fine …. But it’s not black is it ?! 😄😄
If it works, keep it. But be careful if you disassemble things that you remember what order what parts go together in what orientation.
I do not know if that is the Orbit XL or not. If it is, the attached may be applicable. I do not know why I have two versions of graphics, attached both. Third attachment is a photo of my headset parts in order without the frame, if I travel with the fork out of the frame this is how I store all those parts.
Thanks , yeah I’ve started taking photos and video at times when I work in the bike for reference
I believe it is an orbit XL 2 headset that’s on the bike now
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Just a little note on internal rust treatments. Only the head tube, seat tube and bottom bracket on the frame and the steerer tube on the forks would need treated. This being a fillet brazed frame, all the other main tubes and stays are sealed. Thorn even went so far as to use bottle bosses that have closed ends to their threads, so that nothing can get in or out of the tubes 8)
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Just a little note on internal rust treatments. Only the head tube, seat tube and bottom bracket on the frame and the steerer tube on the forks would need treated. This being a fillet brazed frame, all the other main tubes and stays are sealed. Thorn even went so far as to use bottle bosses that have closed ends to their threads, so that nothing can get in or out of the tubes 8)
Ah , nice one 🙂
I was actually just mentioning to a YouTube that I knew some of the tubes were sealed , but I was concerned that moisture could have crept into these sealed tubes via the bottle boss screws . But now you have enlightened me I can rest 😄 I was just thinking about how I could treat potential rust inside but now I don’t have to . Thankyou for that golden piece of info 👍
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I was actually just mentioning to a YouTube that I knew some of the tubes were sealed , but I was concerned that moisture could have crept into these sealed tubes via the bottle boss screws . But now you have enlightened me I can rest 😄 I was just thinking about how I could treat potential rust inside but now I don’t have to . Thankyou for that golden piece of info 👍
A friend of mine that volunteers time as a bike mechanic at a charity is convinced that capilary action can draw water into the downtube through the water bottle cage bolt holes. If that frame has not been out in the rain for years, anything that has happened will have already happened. For the future if you put some grease on your cage bolts, that might help seal the threads against most of any future water passage.
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I was actually just mentioning to a YouTube that I knew some of the tubes were sealed , but I was concerned that moisture could have crept into these sealed tubes via the bottle boss screws . But now you have enlightened me I can rest 😄 I was just thinking about how I could treat potential rust inside but now I don’t have to . Thankyou for that golden piece of info 👍
A friend of mine that volunteers time as a bike mechanic at a charity is convinced that capilary action can draw water into the downtube through the water bottle cage bolt holes. If that frame has not been out in the rain for years, anything that has happened will have already happened. For the future if you put some grease on your cage bolts, that might help seal the threads against most of any future water passage.
Yeah, it sounds believable. Stuff has a way of getting into places !
Thanks , will get some grease on them bolts
Saying that , IF this is the EXP I have , I read in the old Thorn literature that it has a “drain plug “ on the bottom bracket so that any moisture /condensation can escape and in theory the seat tube will never develop rust . Well, they mentioned putting waxol ? Or something wax sounding in the seat tube
I’m not sure how this drain plug thing is supposed to work . If I’m correct it just looks like there a bolt screwed into the bottom bracket . Is the bolt supposed to be removed to allow moisture out ? Either permanently take out or occasionaly taken out and replaced ? Or would moisture still drain out even tho the bolt is screwed in ?
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Can we see a picture of your ' drain plug '.
Reduced size picture works here.
It's not one of the bolts for adjusting the EBB?
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I was actually just mentioning to a YouTube that I knew some of the tubes were sealed , but I was concerned that moisture could have crept into these sealed tubes via the bottle boss screws . But now you have enlightened me I can rest 😄 I was just thinking about how I could treat potential rust inside but now I don’t have to . Thankyou for that golden piece of info 👍
A friend of mine that volunteers time as a bike mechanic at a charity is convinced that capilary action can draw water into the downtube through the water bottle cage bolt holes. If that frame has not been out in the rain for years, anything that has happened will have already happened. For the future if you put some grease on your cage bolts, that might help seal the threads against most of any future water passage.
Yeah, it sounds believable. Stuff has a way of getting into places !
Thanks , will get some grease on them bolts
Saying that , IF this is the EXP I have , I read in the old Thorn literature that it has a “drain plug “ on the bottom bracket so that any moisture /condensation can escape and in theory the seat tube will never develop rust . Well, they mentioned putting waxol ? Or something wax sounding in the seat tube
I’m not sure how this drain plug thing is supposed to work . If I’m correct it just looks like there a bolt screwed into the bottom bracket . Is the bolt supposed to be removed to allow moisture out ? Either permanently take out or occasionaly taken out and replaced ? Or would moisture still drain out even tho the bolt is screwed in ?
None of my bikes has a drain plug. I can't answer that.
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A friend of mine that volunteers time as a bike mechanic at a charity is convinced that capilary action can draw water into the downtube through the water bottle cage bolt holes.
For the reasons the Prince of Darkness points out two posts up from yours, this isn't possible if it's the frame with sealed tubes.
On any other frame without sealed bosses, I'd prefer to use threadlock rather than grease, both to do the job intended and to offer a longer lasting weather seal.
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I’m not sure how this drain plug thing is supposed to work . If I’m correct it just looks like there a bolt screwed into the bottom bracket . Is the bolt supposed to be removed to allow moisture out ? Either permanently take out or occasionaly taken out and replaced ? Or would moisture still drain out even tho the bolt is screwed in ?
Just remove to air it out once in a while, particularly if you've done a few wet rides.
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I like to spray ACF-50 into my frames once a year. I think we've had long threads about whether it's necessary or not, so I'm not saying it something you have to do, but it keeps me happy.
Water ingress - it's surprising home much can get in via the seatpost, I once took a bottom bracket out of a "dry" frame and a cup full of rusty water came out! Now as part of my pre winter maintenance, I take mine out and give it a coating of waterproof grease to act as a seal.
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Can we see a picture of your ' drain plug '.
Reduced size picture works here.
It's not one of the bolts for adjusting the EBB?
I think youl get a good look at it in one of the videos I posted on my YouTube channel . This bike is derailleur so I wouldn’t have an eccentric would I ?
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Can we see a picture of your ' drain plug '.
Reduced size picture works here.
It's not one of the bolts for adjusting the EBB?
Skip to about 4 minutes in for a close up
https://youtu.be/fFg4OgeprHk
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A friend of mine that volunteers time as a bike mechanic at a charity is convinced that capilary action can draw water into the downtube through the water bottle cage bolt holes.
For the reasons the Prince of Darkness points out two posts up from yours, this isn't possible if it's the frame with sealed tubes.
On any other frame without sealed bosses, I'd prefer to use threadlock rather than grease, both to do the job intended and to offer a longer lasting weather seal.
Ah right , so even on the unsealed tubes like the seat tube , they have still put sealed bosses so Water can’t Get into the seat tube ?
If all of these bottle bosses are sealed , should I still be putting a bit of grease on them to stop them ceasing up? In my very limited knowledge I was under the impression it’s always best to put grease on bolts to help get them off in the future
Then I watched a v brake video where the guy said not to but grease in the bosses but use a bolt with thread locker on it instead .
So some bolts have thread locker already pre-applied to them? Is this good or can it’s potency wear off ? Would it be better to buy your own thread locker and apply it yourself ? Do I win a prize for most questions asked in a single post ?😄
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I like to spray ACF-50 into my frames once a year. I think we've had long threads about whether it's necessary or not, so I'm not saying it something you have to do, but it keeps me happy.
Water ingress - it's surprising home much can get in via the seatpost, I once took a bottom bracket out of a "dry" frame and a cup full of rusty water came out! Now as part of my pre winter maintenance, I take mine out and give it a coating of waterproof grease to act as a seal.
Yeah I was just recently reading the old posts on rust and your comments on ACF-50
This bike I have has some rusting around the seatpost down into the seat tube . Looks superficial but I don’t know how deep it goes
I’m not what would be the best way to clean it up as there looks like oil and dirt and surface rust all down in there
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That bolt under the bottom bracket definitely looks like a drain plug (what else can it be?) so temporarily remove it and see if anything comes out when the bike is the right way up. Normally the bolt should be in place to stop the hole being a point of water ingress. The hole will also be useful for squirting in some anti-corrosion treatment.
Going back to your question about tyres http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=14592.msg109480#msg109480, if they feel unstable when cornering then they are most likely too soft. You need to get a fairly good pressure gauge. I wouldn't trust one that costs less than £5 or is on a very cheap hand pump but a £20 floor pump with a dial gauge should be fairly accurate. Manufacturers give recommended pressures although the ideal pressure for an individual depends on their weight and preference in the balance between rolling resistance (higher pressure) and comfort (lower pressure). Harder is better until you start feeling every imperfection in the road surfaces.
There's a bewildering range of Schwalbe Marathon tyres with the only thing in common being the name plus greater puncture resistance compared to lighter, more supple tyres. Your options will be reduced by your wheel size. Marathon Plus is in the middle of the range. Marathon Supreme is smoother and should have better rolling resistance while, at the other end of the range, the Marathon Mondial has a chunky tread for extra grip on loose surfaces.
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Then I watched a v brake video where the guy said not to but grease in the bosses but use a bolt with thread locker on it instead .
So some bolts have thread locker already pre-applied to them? Is this good or can it’s potency wear off ? Would it be better to buy your own thread locker and apply it yourself ?
Grease, Copperslip, Threadlock, really take your pick, the only thing you can be certain of is that something is better than nothing. I like threadlock for bolts that are not routinely being removed, it seals as well as grease, doesn't dry out or wash away. If I buy something with threadlock already applied I don't add any more, but If I'm refitting, or using new bolts, I'll apply it myself.
Do I win a prize for most questions asked in a single post ?
;D ;D ;D
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Then I watched a v brake video where the guy said not to but grease in the bosses but use a bolt with thread locker on it instead .
So some bolts have thread locker already pre-applied to them? Is this good or can it’s potency wear off ? Would it be better to buy your own thread locker and apply it yourself ? Do I win a prize for most questions asked in a single post ?😄
The way I do it is:
- Rack bolts, shoe cleat bolts, kickstand bolts, they get locktite, or one of the competing brands. Removable type. Things like brake bolts, the loctite comes pre-applied to it. If I remove the bolt, I might add more or might not bother depending on how it looks.
- Water bottle cage bolts, seatpost clamp bolt, stem and handlebar clamp bolts, they get grease.
- Fender (mudguard) bolts, sometimes loctite and sometimes grease, I am not consistent on those. But if I put a nylock nut on the bolt, then I do not bother with loctite.
The grease might not sound logical but it is easy to lose a bolt that can vibrate if it comes lose, but grease is a viscous fluid and it is less likely to shake out from vibration with grease on it.
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I often use blue/medium Loctite as a threadlocking compound...when I am not using kneaded beeswax.
Beeswax makes a dandy threadlocker and I often carry a small ball of it on tour with my tools. I usually buy the filtered kind so there aren't impurities like legs, wings, and debris to deal with.
The key to success with it is to break off a chunk about the size of a golf ball, then thoroughly knead it by hand. This permanently changes the consistency from flaky to moldable and it can then be rubbed onto threads or molded into them, as desired. I often use it to coat drywall and wood screws as a lubricant because they turn in to hardwoods more easily and with less strain on my power driver, then "set" in the beeswax once they are screwed fully home. Beeswax is naturally water repellent, seems to be nonreactive with everything it encounters and once set in place, I've never had a machine screw/bolt/nut back off provided it was properly torqued to spec. n 45 years, I have not found a better threadlocker for the locknut on threaded steerers intended for use with quill stems. I also use it to plug the brazing vent holes on my frame tubes after treating the interiors with an anti-corrosive. If you need to re-treat, it is simple to push the beeswax plug through using a cocktail toothpick and replug after.
Try it sometime, you might be pleasantly surprised.
Best, Dan.
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My XTC also has a drain plug in the bottom bracket. If any water were to get into the seat tube, it would drain down into the bottom bracket, from which it could be drained. I do remember that Thorn recommended using waxoyl to treat the inside of the seat tube, bottom bracket, head tube and the stearer, though obviously other products can be used ;)
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Thanks for the replies guys
Sorry i do t give as many quality replies as I would like as life is hectic and I’m never on a computer just my phone
Just put in another sjs order which socks arrive tommorow 😄
Before putting on new parts I’m thinking about cleaning up areas of the frame . One of them being the seat tube which does have a bit of rust on the top of the tube and down inside . It looks a bit mucky and there is some oil too. I’m not sure the best way to approach a good deep clean
1. I guess first off I would need to remove the cranks /bottom bracket etc. I’ve never done it and don’t have the tools but can learn and get the tools … if there is no chance of me damaging anything
2. The seat tube and bottom bracket needs cleaned . Not sure the best approach . I guess some rags or cloths could help cleanup the oil . Then I need to remove the rust . This video has quite an interesting technique with a coat hanger in a drill with wire wool attached to one end https://youtu.be/xRIFqasCOSg
3. If I managed to clean up the rust, would I bother applying some sort of rust eater/preventer just to make sure anything that might be left is confronted ? Or could I skip this stage ?
4. Finishing with protecting the seat tube and bottom bracket oil/wax/grease . I read the comments of a chemist that he recommends using Vaseline as it’s not water soluble and there is something about grease , even marine grease that is . Marine grease is great as a lubricant, Vaseline isn’t as good , but your goal is to protect from water which he says Vaseline /petroleum jelly is a better option. So hmmm 🤔
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I do not recall if your bike has a square taper crank or not. If it is, they are easy to remove, but you need a crank puller and the bottom bracket has a special tool too. Installing the crank arms on a square taper crank is one thing that I use a torque wrench on. I use a half inch drive torque wrench, my bottom bracket tool also works on half inch drive. And I bought the correct size allen wrench tool that fits on that torque wrench to install crank arm bolts.
If not square taper, can't help.
I use a product called Frame Saver on insides of frame tubes but I do not know if it is sold outside USA. I have heard of people that use Linseed Oil instead to put a rust limiting coating on steel. If you use any Linseed Oil, the used rags can spontaneously combust if disposed wrong, do some internet searching to find out how to avoid burning down your home. Just in case any water got into your downtube in the bottle cage bolt holes, that frame tube could use treatment too.
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Wow, fast paced , info overload
Rust protector product tests
https://youtu.be/wBgF07I7TQM
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I do not recall if your bike has a square taper crank or not. If it is, they are easy to remove, but you need a crank puller and the bottom bracket has a special tool too. Installing the crank arms on a square taper crank is one thing that I use a torque wrench on. I use a half inch drive torque wrench, my bottom bracket tool also works on half inch drive. And I bought the correct size allen wrench tool that fits on that torque wrench to install crank arm bolts.
If not square taper, can't help.
I use a product called Frame Saver on insides of frame tubes but I do not know if it is sold outside USA. I have heard of people that use Linseed Oil instead to put a rust limiting coating on steel. If you use any Linseed Oil, the used rags can spontaneously combust if disposed wrong, do some internet searching to find out how to avoid burning down your home. Just in case any water got into your downtube in the bottle cage bolt holes, that frame tube could use treatment too.
I’m not too sure if it’s a square taper, I’m sure il find out soon enough. There was a guy on here that did up an exp like mine so I can check the bottom bracket he used if that will give me a clue 🕵🏻♂️
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I’m not too sure if it’s a square taper, I’m sure il find out soon enough. There was a guy on here that did up an exp like mine so I can check the bottom bracket he used if that will give me a clue 🕵🏻♂️
The Youtube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFg4OgeprHk shows a Shimano Deore XT crank. It's not square taper and the fitting / removal instructions are available here https://si.shimano.com/api/publish/storage/pdf/en/dm/MAFC002/DM-MAFC002-10-ENG.pdf . However, as the instructions cover a range of different products you've got the challenge of figuring out what is relevant. Step one is removing the left crank after which you can closely look at the bottom bracket.
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My XTC also has a drain plug in the bottom bracket. If any water were to get into the seat tube, it would drain down into the bottom bracket, from which it could be drained. I do remember that Thorn recommended using waxoyl to treat the inside of the seat tube, bottom bracket, head tube and the stearer, though obviously other products can be used ;)
From trawling the internet , ive pulled up info stating Thorn has recommended Waxoly (not sure if it’s a hammerite original brand but I see they make it and another company makes “waxoil” which I guess is similar ) and also Wurth’s cavity wax. Both of which I’ve saved in my eBay watch list incase I decide to go for one
Other options are just using nothing, or oil, or grease , or Vaseline . Other stuff out there like framesaver. A video I just watched highlighted a product called XCP rust blocker which seemed to do significantly better in tests than the rest of the competition.
Oh yeah there is also dinitrol, a bit like wayoyl I think.
So I hear that rust converters are not so good. Especially if there is oil or grease contamination . It’s maybe better to clean and degrease then mechanically remove all the rust then something like wayoyl is supposed to have a built in rust converter thingy. My brain is fried with all the science 😄. Can’t retain it all.
One of my concerns is mixing these different substances and not knowing if they have negative effects
For example we are advised to grease the seat post (if it’s aluminium I think ) so that it doesn’t cease up. And a bit of that grease is supposed to be good to stop water getting into seat tube . Also I think you would be greasing the bottom bracket , again to stop ceasing . But then what about applying wayoyl into the seat tube , will that be okay with the grease ? Or can wayoyl be used for the seat post and the bottom bracket ? I don’t know if it acts as a lubricant and would stop ceasing . Hmm 🤔
I heard oil and grease were the original rust preventers . So maybe those two would’ve fine or even just a good quality marine grease for everything . Decisions decisions !
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I’m not too sure if it’s a square taper, I’m sure il find out soon enough. There was a guy on here that did up an exp like mine so I can check the bottom bracket he used if that will give me a clue 🕵🏻♂️
The Youtube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFg4OgeprHk shows a Shimano Deore XT crank. It's not square taper and the fitting / removal instructions are available here https://si.shimano.com/api/publish/storage/pdf/en/dm/MAFC002/DM-MAFC002-10-ENG.pdf . However, as the instructions cover a range of different products you've got the challenge of figuring out what is relevant. Step one is removing the left crank after which you can closely look at the bottom bracket.
It's not square taper, but I don't believe these are the right instructions. Looks to me that this is an Octalink crankset, which shimano made between the square taper and the current Hollowtech. Removing Octalink cranks is exactly the same as removing square taper, just remove the bolt with an allen key and use a crank puller. Afraid I don't know anything about the bottom bracket bearings, but if it's working fine just refit it. If you need to replace it, it should have the necessary model number and sizing information on it 8)
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Have you removed the tires yet?
Rim tape ok? Always good to check it when buying a new/old bike.
Best
Matt
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Have you removed the tires yet?
Rim tape ok? Always good to check it when buying a new/old bike.
Best
Matt
Yeah took them off to drill the rims out for schrader valves are there was rather old looking rim tape on. I’m running new tubes now and all is working well. I did consider getting new fresh rim tape at some point .
I was considering new rims but have decided to keep these for now and get them trued. I tried myself but it seems like quite a skilled job to get it where you want it .
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That bolt under the bottom bracket definitely looks like a drain plug (what else can it be?) so temporarily remove it and see if anything comes out when the bike is the right way up. Normally the bolt should be in place to stop the hole being a point of water ingress. The hole will also be useful for squirting in some anti-corrosion treatment.
Going back to your question about tyres http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=14592.msg109480#msg109480, if they feel unstable when cornering then they are most likely too soft. You need to get a fairly good pressure gauge. I wouldn't trust one that costs less than £5 or is on a very cheap hand pump but a £20 floor pump with a dial gauge should be fairly accurate. Manufacturers give recommended pressures although the ideal pressure for an individual depends on their weight and preference in the balance between rolling resistance (higher pressure) and comfort (lower pressure). Harder is better until you start feeling every imperfection in the road surfaces.
There's a bewildering range of Schwalbe Marathon tyres with the only thing in common being the name plus greater puncture resistance compared to lighter, more supple tyres. Your options will be reduced by your wheel size. Marathon Plus is in the middle of the range. Marathon Supreme is smoother and should have better rolling resistance while, at the other end of the range, the Marathon Mondial has a chunky tread for extra grip on loose surfaces.
Yeah I’m feeling a lot better about the tyres and cornering
I think you see right that the front was too soft . When the bike was delivered one of the tyres was flat so had to pump it up . It may have been the front I’m not sure .
But yeah , I had no idea what pressure the tyres were after pumping then both with new tubes . I was over cautious and pumped them surprisingly low which I only found out after a got a digital pressure gauge which I’m really impressed with.
A good pump came with bike but it seems like it’s ceased and I can’t turn it round to the schrader side for the new schrader valve tubes I bought , so got a cheapo from Halfords just to get by , but I’m struggling to get them up to 40 psi 😄 , my arms feel like they will explode . Thorn recommended 50 for rear and 45 for front for 1.75” tyres. I don’t even know if that figure is loaded or unloaded 🤔
I bought a pair of schwalbe marathon plus tours in 2.0” as I fancied a little more width and a little more grip for off-road .
I haven’t put them on yet as I wanted to give the 1.75” tyres that are currently on a proper go and see what I think of them . The rear is a marathon plus , and the front is a softer panaracer , it’s a pity they were not the same as I think that would be a better way to test the 1.75” size
I have been going out for long runs and increasing the tyre pressure each time . Not sure if I’m noticing a massive difference. Yet. Maybe once I get up a bit higher /hard I will have a better idea.
When I first put on the new schrader tubes I had pumps it up to 16 psi ! Not realising how low it was even it felt ok. I knew it was on the lower side but would never have thought it was that low. And it ran fine at that pressure. Then I read on schwalbe site that the traditional thumb press test which is normally quite reliable doesn’t work for the marathon tyres
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I’m not too sure if it’s a square taper, I’m sure il find out soon enough. There was a guy on here that did up an exp like mine so I can check the bottom bracket he used if that will give me a clue 🕵🏻♂️
The Youtube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFg4OgeprHk shows a Shimano Deore XT crank. It's not square taper and the fitting / removal instructions are available here https://si.shimano.com/api/publish/storage/pdf/en/dm/MAFC002/DM-MAFC002-10-ENG.pdf . However, as the instructions cover a range of different products you've got the challenge of figuring out what is relevant. Step one is removing the left crank after which you can closely look at the bottom bracket.
It's not square taper, but I don't believe these are the right instructions. Looks to me that this is an Octalink crankset, which shimano made between the square taper and the current Hollowtech. Removing Octalink cranks is exactly the same as removing square taper, just remove the bolt with an allen key and use a crank puller. Afraid I don't know anything about the bottom bracket bearings, but if it's working fine just refit it. If you need to replace it, it should have the necessary model number and sizing information on it 8)
Nice piece of info / history there 👍 thanks mate
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Been busy with family life but managed to get both front and rear brakes on with new cables /cable housing
Got the friction shifters onto the jtek brackets and onto new Thorn comfort bar. I had a bit of friction with the friction shifters 😄 but I’m getting there. The left/front is okay but the right /rear is not quite right . Need to get it working properly. It’s a bit tricky getting them to work as you need to have the right amount of tension on them , but that same bolt is the bolt that goes through the jtek bracket and tightens the bracket to the handlebars . It kind I feels like you need a lot of pressure to tighten the jtek bracket to the handlebars but it’s maybe too much for the friction shifter.I could well be wrong tho, feelings are not that trustworthy as they. I would prefer different brackets like the “Paul “ ones that have a separate screw to attach the bracket to the bar , but they are not cheap and I might not need them .
I was tempted to ditch the friction shifters altogether but now they are 80% working I quite like them and move the solid click between gears .
I followed a video setting up friction shifters but mine did not perform like the ones In the video . I also have 3 barrel adjusters from the shifter to the derailleur so that was a bit intimidating. A friend has written down a fix so I can give that a try or it will be a trip to the LBS
The gearing seems ok,although some hills defeat me even on the lowest gear, so I think i would like some lower in the future especially if I’m loaded up.
Still had some knee pain. Could be a mix of things , monitiering it’s. I read that tight quads can pull from under the knee cap area . Hot bath can help the muscles loosen off. My bike fit is frustrating me as I keep experimenting but can’t find where I’m satisfied.
New thorn stem and spacers are on, I’m quite happy with the position the bars are in now . I actually bought a riser stem but for now I’m happy and won’t use it yet, might in the future .
I’m pondering whether the fork steerer tube has been cut lower. When I compare to the mk3 nomad stem specs it seems much shorter . If it is I wish I had the extra length , I think it would put the bars in a much better place
Now dynamo yet or lighting yet as I’m sticking with the original rims for the moment
26” Marathon plus tours 2.0” are waiting to go on, but for science sake wanted to give the 1.75” that are currently on a chance to show me what they can do. I’m happier with them now that there is a bit more pressure in them. I have a pressure gauge now so I know what they tyres are at. Cheap Halfords pump won’t let me get past 40 psi without ripping tendons off lol , so il get a better pump or a floor pump . I like the zefal? Zepal? Pump that came with bike but it seems like part of it is ceased and I can’t turn it over to the schrader side. Maybe in a vice it would come loose
Anyway , onwards and upwards
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A good pump came with bike but it seems like it’s ceased and I can’t turn it round to the schrader side for the new schrader valve tubes I bought , so got a cheapo from Halfords just to get by , but I’m struggling to get them up to 40 psi 😄 , my arms feel like they will explode . Thorn recommended 50 for rear and 45 for front for 1.75” tyres. I don’t even know if that figure is loaded or unloaded 🤔
I bought a pair of schwalbe marathon plus tours in 2.0” as I fancied a little more width and a little more grip for off-road .
I haven’t put them on yet as I wanted to give the 1.75” tyres that are currently on a proper go and see what I think of them . The rear is a marathon plus , and the front is a softer panaracer , it’s a pity they were not the same as I think that would be a better way to test the 1.75” size
I have been going out for long runs and increasing the tyre pressure each time . Not sure if I’m noticing a massive difference. Yet. Maybe once I get up a bit higher /hard I will have a better idea.
I like the Lezyne pumps which feel to be quality products (probikekit has a good selection). Almost all their hand pumps have a reversible flexible connector which fits both Presta and Schrader valves while Wiggle's Lifeline track pump https://www.wiggle.co.uk/lifeline-essential-track-pump has given me no problems and has a good pressure gauge.
Appropriate pressures depend on both the rider weight and the baggage load. If I can feel every little stone forming a road surface then the tyres are definitely too hard. As you've commented, the extra puncture protection built into the Marathon family makes them inherently stiffer which results in a firmer ride.
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26” Marathon plus tours 2.0” are waiting to go on,
Seriously, why would you want to do that? If the objective was to kill all the benefits of a decent bike I can't think of a better way to do it.
I get it if you were about to ride around the world, or if you had some time critical commute, or were incapable of fixing a puncture, but for every other circumstance there's better tyres.
If it was comfort you were looking for, you've just taken a step backwards, I'd put money on 2" Pluses having less flexibility than your current 1.75's.
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Interesting. So are these tyres a bit like putting welly boots on a ballet dancer? 🙂
So what would you recommend?
I guess I don’t have any frame of reference to judge what’s good or not. At the moment I’m thinking along the lines of getting it expedition ready. So those tyres were an attempt to balance a few things like grip/safety/no fuss. I have no long bike tours lined up just yet but want to move in that direction
I took on board what you said about the 1.75” and decided to leave them on for now and give them a proper test so I can compare. But it seems like the front and back tyre are very different. So I don’t know if it’s a good way to test. One is a marathon plus and the other is a softer panaracer. I didn’t like the panaracer at first but I think that’s because there wasn’t enough air in it, but now it’s kind of growing on me I could buy another marathon plus and panaracer , then I’ve got 2 of each and can put the both panaracer on them both marathon plus on to compare
I may buy a variety of tyres at different widths and experiment
So what are my options if I were looking for speed or comfort ?
I did look at other non schwalbe tyres and would be open to buying them
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Interesting. So are these tyres a bit like putting welly boots on a ballet dancer? 🙂
... then expecting them to dance through treacle.
So what would you recommend?
it's 15+ years since I last had 26" wheels so I've not kept up. I notice SJS have some 2.15" Almotion, I don't know it they'd fit your frame, if so they'd be my first choice, the 26's are no longer listed by Schwalbe so maybe they've been dropped like several other 26" tyres. I's all a compromise - speed, comfort, road grip, off-road grip, puncture protection, sidewall strength, longevity, price - you have to decide for yourself where the priorities are, in the case of the Pluses, they score great at the puncture protection and longevity and pretty poor at everything else. They have been shown to have good rolling resistances at similar pressures to other touring tyres, but at those pressures the comfort has fallen through the floor. As I said in another of your threads, for a tyres that scores OK on all criteria, the standard Marathon take some beating.
But really this question would be better answered by those riding similar bikes to yours.