Whither the future: Thorn's derailleur vs Rohloff bikes

[Danneaux]

 

All the best,

Dan. (...who can also do short posts)

[energyman]

If I remember correctly the "hire me" type city bikes outside my local station are shaft driven.

[Bill C]

If I remember correctly the "hire me" type city bikes outside my local station are shaft driven.

sssshhh it will never go anywhere, stupid idea 

[jags]

All the best,

Dan. (...who can also do short posts)

thats a first 

[il padrone]

If I remember correctly the "hire me" type city bikes outside my local station are shaft driven.

Some are:



Possibly due to sea air and corrosion concerns.



Most of the bikeshare schemes are definitely not:

[leftpoole]

Hello!
As much as it pleases me to accidentally start this massive 9 pages (so far) debate!
I am not getting why it has moved on in such a massive shift in direction?
I simply (?) mentioned at the start that I personally (more or less if read between the lines)
thought that Andy Blance at Thorn had concentrated all efforts into holidaying (there I go again, testing and designing) on the South American Ripio whatever that is in English (rough roads) and only Rohloff for the future. He has talked with me and told me Thorn feel that their collective future is Rohloff based cycles.
My question really at the start was or should have been, why!?! Because in my belief there are many people who would buy a Thorn if it were an upmarket derailleur equipped bicycle. The current bicycles are really great and I have two so I am happy with them indeed having purchased used, modified and built my way have a great knowledge of them. Sadly health is getting me down and riding as I used to is never going to return. But I love cycling and love bikes and will continue to my dying breath ......
In my opinion Thorn should steer in a slightly different direction and get to grips with more road bikes (Audax & Touring) but not discs because my feeling is this will be a short sharp fashion ?
Other manufacturers are catching up fast and Rohloff can be specified by almost every manufacturer (of heavy duty or even cross bikes) somewhere.
When Thorn started out the bikes were fabulous, with fillet brazing and high prices. The Audax 853/ the XTC etc etc. We all wanted one or even two!!!
Thorn please brighten the range, please make some real UK built handmade frames for us 
Best to all who return to the original theme.
John

[Bill C]

hi John
the topic is never going to stay in a straight line, it is broadly going in the direction it started in
i have no more input i have said my bit
the only thing i didn't touch on is you want more bling, the only bling a Thorn needs is the stainless headbadge that they ditched, bad move, who wouldn't pay an extra few quid to have that back, POS stick on badge 

btw not sure why you posted your last comment as this has been one of the better threads in ages, and your not happy with it LOL

perhaps it should of been split again and your original post would have died

btw i agree about handmade and British i have put it in my posts in this thread, some might say Thorn have sold out and are just another boutique brand now with just a vestige of their former glory days

 i bought a xTc classic and a xTc fillet brazed frame in the Thorn sell out, why because i knew they were never going to make as good a bikes again for my needs

[rualexander]

Yes but they have to make money, and Thorn have chosen to occupy the niche that is the Taiwanese batch factory handbuilt touring bike (either heavy duty Sherpa/Raven/Nomad, or lighter duty ClubTour/Audax, plus a few Tandems).

If you want handbuilt in the UK, there are others who can supply that niche, but the volumes are much lower and the costs much higher (probably at least double on the price of a frameset).

They used to do more colours (most frames were available in four colours at least), but unfortunately only two colours in each model seems to be the option now, presumably for economic reasons, cost of ordering more batches, stock costs, etc.

Personally I think they have the balance between Rohloff and derailleur bikes about right just now.

As for bling, presumably most Thorn customers don't really want bling on their touring bikes.

Presumably Thorn know their market, sales figures, and customers better than the handful of us who frequent this forum.

[Bill C]

Presumably Thorn know their market, sales figures, and customers better than the handful of us who frequent this forum.

yes and that's why made in taiwan , no name tubing, and stick in a hoff is the new mantra, easy money

[rualexander]

yes and that's why made in taiwan , no name tubing, and stick in a hoff is the new mantra, easy money

You keep talking about this 'hoff', but shouldn't it be a 'loff'?!

[JimK]

made in taiwan , no name tubing, and stick in a hoff is the new mantra, easy money

This is manufacturing in general. Buy a bunch of parts, slap them together, ship them off, cash the checks. Easy money? Don't be ridiculous!

There are big trends in general global manufacturing, there are smaller trends in bicycle manufacturing, then there's the direction that Thorn is choosing inside those big currents.

Handmade bikes seem to get rarer and rarer. The increasing price of skilled workers is probably a big piece of this, plus automation keeps building better stuff at lower prices. This is a general global manufacturing trend.

Derailleur vs. Rohloff, yeah, that is certainly a place where Thorn is picking its own path - not exactly unique, but far from commonplace. Though IGH do seem to be getting more popular. I would say Thorn is an industry leader. You might not like the direction in which they're leading. But leading is very far from "easy money"!

Got to say, though... if I can just take 25 lb off my mid-section... the next weight will come off the bike... those Audax bikes sure look nice! I love my Rohloff but I would be very happy to expand the family!

[Bill C]

yes and that's why made in taiwan , no name tubing, and stick in a hoff is the new mantra, easy money

You keep talking about this 'hoff', but shouldn't it be a 'loff'?!

Hassle-Hoff  if i had one the bike would be called David

[David Simpson]

yes and that's why made in taiwan , no name tubing, and stick in a hoff is the new mantra, easy money

Why do you call it "no name tubing"? Do you believe that their tubing is inferior to that used on other bikes? In their "Mega Brochure" [page 8], Thorn go into detail about the tubing used in their frames. The quality of their tubing is something that they emphasis.

Just curious what you are saying, because it sounds like you don't like the quality of the tubing.

- Dave

[Bill C]

i called it no name tubing as all the older ,dare i say proper Thorns very proudly told you of the reynolds tubes used in the frame,

i have to be really careful as i really am not trying to denigrate the new Thorns,
But John has talked about better/nicer/more upmarket frames like they used to be.
 i'm just adding a voice that says i agree the older kit is much more desirable
a lot would probably shell out the extra to get a Thorn like you used to
if they can out source mass produced frames, then at a cost to the buyer is there no UK frame builder they could trust with their design to make them?
yes it's going to be expensive it always was but more people spend big money on their dream bike than ever before
they even spend it on disposable carbon bikes 

[David Simpson]

I didn't hear of Thorn until about 3 years ago, so I can't comment about their older models. But obviously they were (and are) well loved.

As for John's original comment in this thread... The direction of a business is primarily influenced by profit. "Where can the business make money?" Several people have noted this point in this thread. However, there is another influence that can be important, particularly in a smaller business: "What are business owners interested in?" Small business owners get into the business in the first place because of their interest in the subject, hoping to make money at something they are interested (and knowledgeable) in. As their interests change, the business may also change, provided that they feel they can still make a profit.

Mostly likely Thorn could make money selling bikes with frames hand-built in the UK. (These bikes would undoubtedly be more expensive than their current models.) But it feels like they just have no interest in that market. We can discuss the economic feasibility of such a venture, but if that is not the direction that they want to go, it just isn't going to happen. And that is what makes it frustrating for people who want those models: Thorn could do it if they wanted to, but they just don't want to. There is nothing preventing them from doing it, except for their own decision.

(Of course, I'm assuming that they could make a profit selling those bikes. I don't know for sure.)

- Dave