Whither the future: Thorn's derailleur vs Rohloff bikes

[rualexander]

In the end, it is six-of-one/half-dozen of the other. If a bike has neither eccentric nor sliding/ramped dropouts , then the alternative is a chain tensioner. If one has to go that route, one with a single tension pulley is probably best as it avoids putting the chain through a tight wear-inducing S-curve.

Best,

Dan.

Or, as I have on my 'Rohloffed' Sherpa, none of the above.
No EBB, no sliding dropouts, no chain tensioner.
Perfectly functional with judicious selection of chainring/sprocket combination, perhaps not as suitabke for high mileage riders who might have to replace chains etc more frequently though.

[bobs]

If you want Rohloff and being have a look at Shandy cycles, they have about everything covered.
Bob

[Bill C]

In the end, it is six-of-one/half-dozen of the other. If a bike has neither eccentric nor sliding/ramped dropouts , then the alternative is a chain tensioner. If one has to go that route, one with a single tension pulley is probably best as it avoids putting the chain through a tight wear-inducing S-curve.

Best,

Dan.

Or, as I have on my 'Rohloffed' Sherpa, none of the above.
No EBB, no sliding dropouts, no chain tensioner.
Perfectly functional with judicious selection of chainring/sprocket combination,

so did you just find the suitable chainring/sprocket to make it fit your set up or did you have any choice in your gearing?
i'm not being a pain or flippant, i am interested

[rualexander]

In the end, it is six-of-one/half-dozen of the other. If a bike has neither eccentric nor sliding/ramped dropouts , then the alternative is a chain tensioner. If one has to go that route, one with a single tension pulley is probably best as it avoids putting the chain through a tight wear-inducing S-curve.

Best,

Dan.

Or, as I have on my 'Rohloffed' Sherpa, none of the above.
No EBB, no sliding dropouts, no chain tensioner.
Perfectly functional with judicious selection of chainring/sprocket combination,

so did you just find the suitable chainring/sprocket to make it fit your set up or did you have any choice in your gearing?
i'm not being a pain or flippant, i am interested

I used an online 'magic gear' calculator, specifically http://eehouse.org/fixin/fixmeup.php in order to work out which chainring/sprocket combinations would work with my 610s sized Sherpa which has 450mm length chainstays. I was using 38x16 but recently changed to 37x17. I only looked at options which gave nice low end gearing, the top end doesn't matter so much to me.

[il padrone]

i got as far as xt 770 9 speed before i gave up on new gear
i see carbon, electric shifting, the hoff  10/11cassettes all as stupid modern fangled crap that is over priced over designed and just for the trend followers,  it's here to stay but only because the makers of technocrap are making 9 speed obsolete in their never ending battle to  part fools from their cash,
same reason for the push on plastic sorry carbon frames

disk brakes (avid bb7), ti and stainless frames i can get my head round as they offer a real benefit ie no rust or with the bb7 better braking than rim brakes and less wear to rims
i'm not a luddite i just use my head about my purchases, is it value for money , will it last, will it have a resale value when i'm done with it, 
carbon frames would you buy a well used one? i wouldn't

Rolhoff was on the market looong before 9-speed, and before most disc brakes. It has an almost 20-year market presence.

[Bill C]

In the end, it is six-of-one/half-dozen of the other. If a bike has neither eccentric nor sliding/ramped dropouts , then the alternative is a chain tensioner. If one has to go that route, one with a single tension pulley is probably best as it avoids putting the chain through a tight wear-inducing S-curve.

Best,

Dan.

Or, as I have on my 'Rohloffed' Sherpa, none of the above.
No EBB, no sliding dropouts, no chain tensioner.
Perfectly functional with judicious selection of chainring/sprocket combination,

so did you just find the suitable chainring/sprocket to make it fit your set up or did you have any choice in your gearing?
i'm not being a pain or flippant, i am interested

I used an online 'magic gear' calculator, specifically http://eehouse.org/fixin/fixmeup.php in order to work out which chainring/sprocket combinations would work with my 610s sized Sherpa which has 450mm length chainstays. I was using 38x16 but recently changed to 37x17. I only looked at options which gave nice low end gearing, the top end doesn't matter so much to me.

thank you 

[il padrone]

An EBB has a known inevitable failure mode built in. That makes it an inferior system.

Failure mode ??  What is this failure that will ensue?

A day will arrive when the dimples made in the soft ali of the EBB by the fixing screws will run together and the thing will turn in the BB shell without your assistance. If it happens in Outer Dirtyanddesolate, and you can't get the chain tight enough to pedal, you'll be pushing a long way through the desert. That counts as a catastrophic failure in anyone's book.

And why will said fixing screws suddenly fail to make slightly deeper dimples in said soft aluminium ?? I really don't see too much of a 'failure mode' 

[Bill C]

i got as far as xt 770 9 speed before i gave up on new gear
i see carbon, electric shifting, the hoff  10/11cassettes all as stupid modern fangled crap that is over priced over designed and just for the trend followers,  it's here to stay but only because the makers of technocrap are making 9 speed obsolete in their never ending battle to  part fools from their cash,
same reason for the push on plastic sorry carbon frames

disk brakes (avid bb7), ti and stainless frames i can get my head round as they offer a real benefit ie no rust or with the bb7 better braking than rim brakes and less wear to rims
i'm not a luddite i just use my head about my purchases, is it value for money , will it last, will it have a resale value when i'm done with it, 
carbon frames would you buy a well used one? i wouldn't

Rolhoff was on the market looong before 9-speed, and before most disc brakes. It has an almost 20-year market presence.

and still 99.999999% of cyclists don't have a clue what they are, so much for market penetration eh? pretty sure iif they were the game changer you lot reckon, they might just be a little more widely known, still you'll never need spares or repairs so no matter

[il padrone]

Rolhoff was on the market looong before 9-speed, and before most disc brakes. It has an almost 20-year market presence.

and still 99.999999% of cyclists don't have a clue what they are, so much for market penetration eh? pretty sure iif they were the game changer you lot reckon, they might just be a little more widely known, still you'll never need spares or repairs so no matter

Now you're just changing the topic to suit your biases.

I was referring to the idea expressed that Rohloff is some new technology that is just a lot of marketing hype (something I will agree a lot of mass-market pap IS). For sure, the Rohloff has not gained mass-market penetration - there are currently only something over 211,000 hubs on the roads. Went from hub #134827, to over 211,000 in just under five years. It never will be a mass-market product. That does not however deny its functional values.

[Bill C]

i'm not biased, i might be a hard sell though
i throw this stuff out in the vain hope you might be able to convince me i'm wrong, so far my xt/xtr is winning hands down
 my drive train 48/36/22 11/34 can a rohloff even come close to that no,
could i do with even wider gearing you bet, i run out of gears daily both going up hills and down the other side,
i really struggle to see anything in the rohloff other than is alledged reliability
but keep up the topic maybe something will occur that will sway me

[JimK]

Yeah I would be happy to have a wider range of gears than the Rohloff provides!

But there are more advantages than reliability. Very fast shifting at very low speeds is grand fun, e.g. to switch from standing to sitting and back when crawling up a steep hill. Also a nice wide range without having to coordinate front and rear shifts.

Plus of course being able to use a full chain cover.

[il padrone]

i'm not biased, i might be a hard sell though
i throw this stuff out in the vain hope you might be able to convince me i'm wrong, so far my xt/xtr is winning hands down
 my drive train 48/36/22 11/34 can a rohloff even come close to that no,
could i do with even wider gearing you bet, i run out of gears daily both going up hills and down the other side,
i really struggle to see anything in the rohloff other than is alledged reliability
but keep up the topic maybe something will occur that will sway me

Good luck to you if the derailleur suits you. I really do not see the grounds for bagging the Rohloff to the extent you are, a gear system that works VERY well for many happy users. It does verge almost on the insulting at times with the tone you have chosen 

[ipswichcycler]

Just a thought. A troll is someone who posts comments that they may or may not actually believe in order to incite a response for no other reasons than they can and for their own amusement.

[Bill C]

if your  reffering to me then, you make your own mind up
but because somone can point out valid pitfalls of a system doesn't make them a troll, just a non believer

[Bill C]

i'm not biased, i might be a hard sell though
i throw this stuff out in the vain hope you might be able to convince me i'm wrong, so far my xt/xtr is winning hands down
 my drive train 48/36/22 11/34 can a rohloff even come close to that no,
could i do with even wider gearing you bet, i run out of gears daily both going up hills and down the other side,
i really struggle to see anything in the rohloff other than is alledged reliability
but keep up the topic maybe something will occur that will sway me

Good luck to you if the derailleur suits you. I really do not see the grounds for bagging the Rohloff to the extent you are, a gear system that works VERY well for many happy users. It does verge almost on the insulting at times with the tone you have chosen 

never realised i'd been insulting? for once i've agreed with Andre and Jags in the same thread,
I'll wait for my reprimand from Dan if i have offended/blasphemed