Whither the future: Thorn's derailleur vs Rohloff bikes

[leftpoole]

[Topic moved intact from a discussion in the Bikes For Sale board about a used Thorn exxp offered by SJS Cycles. John's opinion is worthwhile, but more suited to its own topic, since it will surely spawn replies that don't apply to the bike for sale. -- Best, Dan.]

Description from the original brochure... http://web.archive.org/web/20070305193447/http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/thornpdf/ThornRohloffeXpBroHiRes.pdf

After many years’ prototyping, by Andy and Fiona, the definitive eXXp (E, double X, P) has finally arrived!

It has the same frame tubes as theRohloff eXp R but it uses differentstays, which are cranked to allow the
fitting of up to 2.4”knobbly tyres...Rohloff equipped 26 inch wheel - Expedition touring cycles with huge mud clearances, if desired!

The eXXp is designed for Adventure Touring holidays (long distances, with heavy loads over severe terrain).

The eXXp is suspension specific, i.e. it is designed for a suspension fork (Magura Odur) with 100mm travel.

It has the cable runs for an EX hub, reinforcing tubular gussets at the back, 6mm carrier bosses and, whilst at present there are no discs available (which we would recommend) for Adventure Touring, we have “future proofed” the frame by providing ISO disc mounts and carefully considering the potential for neat routing of a hydraulic line... we have also chosen to fit V brake bosses with removable studs, should a disc be used instead.

An additional, extra-long, rigid, twin plate crown fork (to compensate for the suspension specific geometry) can be supplied to allow the eXXp to be suitable for economical day to day use or for a really epic journey, when servicing suspension would be impractical. Compared to the Rohloff eXp, the eXXp has slightly longer chainstays, because with a suspension fork, most of the weight has to be carried on the back of the bike and bigger bags need longer chainstays to help keep the weight within the bike’s wheelbase.

The eXXp is both huge and ruggedly good looking... like a Clydesdale... our bikes (Andy and Fiona’s) are called “Bertha” and “Hector.” These magnificent beasts have just returned from a long holiday in Patagonia, where they performed faultlessly and both flattered and cosseted their owners, by covering the extremely demanding terrain in impeccable style, whilst carrying full camping kit
and up to 10 days shopping!

The eXXp is, as you might expect, the most expensive of our solo bikes. It is available in just 10 sizes... we can’t do “small” with suspension forks!

Best,

Dan.

Hello,
For what it is worth, here is an opinion on Thorn cycles!
Thorn with Andy Blance the main 'designer' decided that Rohloff equipped bikes were/are the future for them. I know this because Andy told me so himself.
After extensive holidaying (oops research) in South America arrived a Rohloff hubbed cycle built like a tank! The bikes whilst slightly refined are in my opinion over engineered and still really pretty heavily built.
Now that most of the World's expedition cyclists have been and looked, purchased and gone, my own feeling is that Thorn should reduce Rohloff building and concentrate on a future for derailleur cycles for which most of the UK at least (plus the Emerald part of the Isle) use!
Rohloff for certain riding, OK but the rest of us ride and indeed love derailleur powered (?) cycles especially Thorn.
Also the build of the frames could be concentrated on with a more luxurious look/feel to them. More carbon forks as after all most people ride with carbon forks and seatposts?
Just my own opinion but I do know a great deal about bicycles and cycling, even though limited by health issues these days.
Best to all,
John
PS To Dan the moderator, feel free to move the post to a more suitable space but DO NOT delete!

[jags]

100% agree these rohloff are not for everyone i dont really care if you can cycle to mars and back without it breaking down  i want a  derailleur system . shimano and campag has served me well this past 40 plus years .
and why doesn't thorn offer more  colour range to there bikes jasus lads a bit more thought into the colour sceme wouldn't go a miss.
i think Andy Blance as good and all as he is is stuck in a ruth ,
time to up the anti Andy boy.

anto.
 

[Bill C]

Hi John
i know where your coming from i have 3 thorn derailleur bikes +1 hub or derailleur all 26"
i'm not really interested in any of the present Thorn line up as i already have a Sherpa and i can't ever see me buying into the Rohloff hype so there is nothing else (size 13uk feet so 700c isn't for me)
BUT if Thorn restarted making lightweight/sporty tourers in 26" i doubt i'd of bought the used or NOS ones that i have,

all the super light camping gear you can get these days means a lot of people aren't going to need a tank for their kit, could be a big market again as cycling seems to be getting more popular all the time
as for you saying about carbon parts, i'll never buy into that one either
but a well built and finished stainless or titanium frame set with the proper Thorn headbadge not the stick on one, and i'd be saving hard and ebaying my hoarded goods 

it would need both disk and v brakes, full rack and mudguard mounts, mech hanger, and pukka fork leg braze ons and frame internal routing for a dynamo's wiring for me

i suppose sliding dropouts and be able to use a belt drive to keep the "hoff" fans happy 

it would be a real bonus if it was UK built, even better if it was English

lol i can dream
atb Bill

[jags]

 see heres another thing i can't get my tiny brain around,
why no carbon, if mark cavandish cant brake carbon then u can rest assured we ain't going to do it any damage ,
as for disc brakes  the pro's hate them,reckon in a pile up there going to cause serious damage to riders, there happy enough with what they have..

i agree a good strong fast tourer is whats needed .
 

[Bill C]

jags you can have as much carbon as you want, me i simply don't trust it http://www.bustedcarbon.com/
never will either
Reynolds 921 sounds the business to me, no paint just satin or brushed tubes and polished stainless lugs,

edit
 unlike me cavendish aint a porker also he doesn't carry 15k of  kit on his bikes
and as for disk's they might be a bummer in a race pile up, but i don't race

[jags]

Bill when lightweigh steel came on the scene first the talk was  it will break going over a bump, never happened .i have great faith in carbon there guys that tour on carbon bike's  be it  lightweigh but still they don't see it as been dangerous.

yeah i like your choice in frames but also like painted frames with plenty bling.

[mickeg]

Every company decides what their desired market is.  Maybe Thorn decided that they only want to focus on the more expensive side of the market?

[jags]

 

[Bill C]

 yes your right, expensive indeed,
but why make your frames in Taiwan if you want the expensive market?
it's just that they used to make some really nice lightweight derailleur bikes that are "fun" to ride, that in their time weren't exactly cheap, and some of us still think they are awesome
sorry to swim against the flow of the "Hoff"

yes i know i can go elsewhere but thorn are local and i have a certain amount of brand loyalty,
I just can't see why no sporty model when it only takes emailing a design to Taiwan and get them to bash out a 100 or so, if On One Can then Surly sorry surely Thorn can

[John Saxby]

Does the Audax Mk III not do the business? Graham Smith in Oz reckons it's the best bike he's ever had, & uses it for light touring as well as commuting, brevets, and such.

Just thinking about derailleurs in my life again starts to bring on a headache, so they're not for me, but they evidently works for lots of others.

[Andre Jute]

.
Just thinking about derailleurs in my life again starts to bring on a headache…

Well said, John!

[leftpoole]

Does the Audax Mk III not do the business? Graham Smith in Oz reckons it's the best bike he's ever had, & uses it for light touring as well as commuting, brevets, and such.

Just thinking about derailleurs in my life again starts to bring on a headache, so they're not for me, but they evidently works for lots of others.

Hello,
The Audax Mk 3 rides great, the issue I have with it is that it does not have what 'jags' calls 'bling'!
As for derailleurs , the World rides them to all intent and purpose without problems, even kids can fix them. Most people including a lot of cyclist I have talked to, have never heard of Rohloff, let alone seen one!
I have no argument for or against but Thorn really should bling up. Ive had loads more Thorn bikes than anyone on the Forum and each time I try to build a bit brighter (to look at) bicycle. I have a Mk 3 in progress which will be ridden New Year. It is blue with DC 07 carbon forks and returns me to the first Mk 3 I built in blue!
I feel that the real reason Thorn appear to frown upon carbon is to do with giving a Warranty? After all St John St Cycles sells carbon forks!
I have more time and space than most due to ill health and making my bikes look good takes time and effort. I have other bikes (not Thorn) and the appearance is more shall I say 'expensive'? Thorn frames are cheaper than some admittedly.......
Best to all inc Rohloff riders!
John
Best to all,
John

[il padrone]

The ever-present conundrum of what is more important - form or function ??

[jags]

ah no form and functun doesn't come into it. the best and prettiest bike i've ever owned was a full carbon Look KX light  ,Look cycles change there models every year they stay well ahead with the latest tech where as  thorn is stuck in a feckin hole..

pretty up your bike's  thorn  ..

[il padrone]

ah no form and functun doesn't come into it. the best and prettiest bike i've ever owned was a full carbon Look KX light  ,Look cycles change there models every year they stay well ahead with the latest tech where as  thorn is stuck in a feckin hole..

pretty up your bike's  thorn  ..

You miss the point entirely. A prettied-up full carbon Look KX light will be as useful as tits on a bull in this scenario.