Author Topic: GREEN APPLE HOW CAN I MAKE THEM MORE PUNCTURE PROOF??  (Read 13234 times)

jags

  • Guest
Re: GREEN APPLE HOW CAN I MAKE THEM MORE PUNCTURE PROOF??
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2014, 10:16:20 PM »
thanks john i'll look at that tomorrow right now its bedtime. ;)


cheers
jags.

Andre Jute

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4125
Re: GREEN APPLE HOW CAN I MAKE THEM MORE PUNCTURE PROOF??
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2014, 11:45:22 PM »
Thanks for the interesting links, John. You're right, these days my idea of a skinny tyre is... 47mm. If it ain't least 50mm wide, and it requires more than 2bar of pressure, it doesn't warrant an introduction to my backside, even on the isolating far side of the three helical springs on a Brooks B73.

The main thing that strikes me, even before comfort, is how rarely modern tyres puncture.

I thought I heard, probably on this forum, when the Grand Bois first came out that they used Pasela carcases precisely for the suppleness of their sidewalls.

John Saxby

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2031
Re: GREEN APPLE HOW CAN I MAKE THEM MORE PUNCTURE PROOF??
« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2014, 12:15:42 AM »
Here's another link on the "Pana-tires", Andre:  https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/forum/board/message/?o=1&thread_id=556504&page=1&nested=0&v=1G

Post #14 describes how the Grand Bois & Compass tires are related to but differ from Panaracers/Panaselas. The writer, David Cambon, is usually very well informed on the tech side of his posts. (That quality doesn't disturb, still less banish, a well-honed sense of Suitable Occasions for a Rant, nor his gift for hyperbole that he needs to exercise now & then.)

Your disdain for anything below your 50 mm threshold has put you well ahead of most of us on the curve w.r.t. plump/plush tires, though the Big Fat Ones fitted to 29ers may have elbowed their way past you by now.

Cheers,  J.

Andre Jute

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4125
Re: GREEN APPLE HOW CAN I MAKE THEM MORE PUNCTURE PROOF??
« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2014, 02:47:38 AM »
Thanks for the links, John. I do like intelligent, well-spoken people exercising their obsessions, much like walking their poodles, and with approximately the same result, road hazard here and there. I'll believe that a Grand Bois tyre is not a Panasela with a vanity imprint as and when I receive an independent lab report with a structural and chemical analysis, not a few bicyclists' subjective impressions. I enjoyed the comparison to dear Grant, though it is unfair to dismiss him as merely a salesman. He's another obsessive who has thought his thing through to the logical end and acted on it. And he's a far more agreeable writer than Heine, who lectures.

As for the hostility in that thread to puncture-proof tyres, no matter how elegantly expressed, and the barely veiled claim that they must perforce be slower, technically it's nonsense spouted by wishful thinkers fighting a rearguard action. Tyres aren't about the street corner myths that arose in the largely uneducated ur-history of bicycling, but about achievable point-to-point times, and any time one spends fixing flats one isn't cycling, merely indulging masochism. Anyway, the most interesting thing is that Heine knows it: despite the rhetoric, the width of those Grand Bois tyres increases by leaps and bounds, almost by the minute. Next a protection layer will creep in, and be declared to have some magic quality, kevlar rubbed on the thighs of virgin cyclists at the full moon. Shortly afterwards the Grand Bois brand will emanate from a Schwalbe factory. Want to indulge in a small wager? Ten bucks that within two years the Grand Bois acquire a protection layer?
« Last Edit: July 11, 2014, 06:58:06 PM by Andre Jute »

JWestland

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 756
Re: GREEN APPLE HOW CAN I MAKE THEM MORE PUNCTURE PROOF??
« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2014, 12:07:20 PM »
I have 700C Panaracers Kevlar tire inserts I'm not using at all.

Can post them to you if you want?

(my commute is through a glassbin so Kevlar all the way for me...)
Pedal to the metal! Wind, rain, hills, braking power permitting ;)

John Saxby

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2031
Re: GREEN APPLE HOW CAN I MAKE THEM MORE PUNCTURE PROOF??
« Reply #20 on: May 30, 2014, 02:39:16 PM »
Thanks, Andre. Tires seem to bring out cyclists' obsessions like few other topics, eh? CGOAB threads on stoves, helmets & tents come close, though. Cambon's rants about Marathon Tour Pluses are legendary, and the subject of others' verbal nudges in the ribs. (Though I enjoy his denunciations of Canada's federal gummint as a "thuggish petro-theocracy".) There's obviously a market for Puncture-Proofness Above All Else, however.

Quote
a Grand Bois tyre
  I keep waiting for a torrent of bad puns related to this brand name. Its bilingual roots may be an obstacle. Reckon we could start with "the tire that rolls softly but carries a big schtick."

sd

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 320
Re: GREEN APPLE HOW CAN I MAKE THEM MORE PUNCTURE PROOF??
« Reply #21 on: May 30, 2014, 03:45:17 PM »
SD, Mr Tuffy's tire savers work well as anti-puncture inserts.  They're inexpensive and seem to work.  Years ago, I used them successfully on the puncture-happy streets of New York City (and we lived in Da Bronx, mind, not the now-carefully-swept streets of Manhattan) (though even the latter weren't so carefully swept, back in the day).

With apologies, I've lost track of what bike you ride. If it's a Raven, and you're riding mostly on sealed/tarmac roads, the 1.6 Supremes have a good following (and from my very brief acquaintance, feel, well, superb and maybe even supreme.) There is an extended, ongoing, frequently funny and just-a-wee-bit-obsessive debate on crazyguyonabike on tires, especially about the puncture resistance & other qualities of various Schwalbes -- just set aside an afternoon and do a search for "Marathon Tour Plus".

Jags and Andre, there's some interesting commentary on Grand Bois and Compass Tires in the "Bicycle Quarterly" networks, and some on crazyguy, celebrating the ride qualities (comfort and handling) qualities and speed of wider tires with flexible sidewalls.  I know the speed thing may not be such a priority for touring bikes, but even some of the dedicated longdistance touring riders/writers on crazyguy are arguing the case for Grand Bois and Compass tires as touring tires. (And make a distinction between Panasela and the Grand Bois/Compass variants -- as did my LBS, interestingly enough: they no longer carry the Panaselas, 'cos of too many sidewall problems, but do sell Grand Bois as a top-of-the-line tire.)

Not sure when I'll wear out my Supremes, but I'd like to try the Compass 26 x 1.75's.
Thorn Raven Enduro and if I ever get home to Lincolnshire again:-

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301177226491?redirect=mobile
I looked on Schwalbe and there big Apple Plus has 3mm of protection while Marathon plus has 6mm but are not all that comfortable compared to big apple. Just looking for away of improving there puncture protection.

John Saxby

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2031
Re: GREEN APPLE HOW CAN I MAKE THEM MORE PUNCTURE PROOF??
« Reply #22 on: May 30, 2014, 04:30:40 PM »
Quote
Just looking for away of improving there puncture protection

Going for the comfort of the Big Apples make sense to me.  For puncture protection, maybe try slime in one tire, and a saver strip (Mr Tuffy's or the Panaracer's kevlar) in the other?

(Sidebar comment:  NY, a.k.a. The Big Apple has a lot of qualities, good & bad and few that are indifferent. "Comfort" is a word that I wouldn't associate with Manhattan, though--& I say this as a fairly regular visitor and a sometime resident. But then, I'm just a country boy, so what would I know about The Right Brand Name for a bike tire?)

Andre Jute

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4125
Re: GREEN APPLE HOW CAN I MAKE THEM MORE PUNCTURE PROOF??
« Reply #23 on: May 31, 2014, 12:25:34 AM »
I have 700C Panaracers Kevlar tire inserts I'm not using at all.

Can post them to you if you want?

(my commute is through a glassbin so Kevlar all the way for me...)

If you're speaking to me, Jawine, thank you kindly but I'm a balloon fundamentalist (just like those Grand Bois fundies I was condemning yesterday -- I just do hypocrisy more elegantly).

Like you I have hardly-to-half-worn tyres hanging on the wall, in my case Marathon Plus and Bontrager Satellite Elite Hardcase, which is functionally the same tyre and may have come from the same molds, same way the Grand Bois are really a new tyre from the Pasela molds.

ASIDE: It's getting harder and harder to give away 700C tyres. At times it seems as if the whole world has gone 26in. The only full-size bikes I see are veterans people have inherited, or the winter training bikes of the guys in the peloton that rides past my door.

JWestland

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 756
Re: GREEN APPLE HOW CAN I MAKE THEM MORE PUNCTURE PROOF??
« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2014, 08:52:01 PM »
They're inserts only...for non-reinforced tires.

Luckily the panaracer pasela TG stop nearly all so never fitted them.

MTB all seem to go 29" AKA 700c now...

...and 650 making a return on small track/road frames where it really makes sense for big companies that keep geometry the same independent of size.

The more things change...

(I really had to get new tires for Thornie though as the threads were literally unravelling..)
Pedal to the metal! Wind, rain, hills, braking power permitting ;)

sd

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 320
Re: GREEN APPLE HOW CAN I MAKE THEM MORE PUNCTURE PROOF??
« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2014, 08:30:48 AM »
Sorted
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/191207436881
And for added puncture protection
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121354825167?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Will probably sell the tyres?
Will try without puncture protection, then with.
Note none of these items have arrived yet. Sometimes sellers simply refuse to sell. Although the Big Apple seller accepted my offer (£30) so he is unlikely to renege.
Forgot to mention bike arrived with a Marathon Supreme on the front and a Camel (made in Thailand) mountain bike tyre on the back. He couldn't find anything else while he was on tour. The Supreme does not appear to be that comfortable although it could be the pressure as it is on maximum. Or/and the aluminium frame. Although can't say I notice much difference between steel and an old Aluminium bike I have had for 15 years.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2014, 08:54:25 AM by sd »

sd

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 320
Re: GREEN APPLE HOW CAN I MAKE THEM MORE PUNCTURE PROOF??
« Reply #26 on: June 17, 2014, 01:49:40 PM »
All arrived will try and fit today sod the with and without puncture protection. I will fit with. The flat away feels like felt so hopefully will make no difference..... other than improved puncture protection!

sd

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 320
Re: GREEN APPLE HOW CAN I MAKE THEM MORE PUNCTURE PROOF??
« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2014, 04:12:37 PM »
Damn damn damn. Tried to put big apples on but would not fit back. Catching on the Dutch rim loc, They are 2.35" and only just catching. Bought them 2nd hand barely used. Will obviously work front. Is there a significant difference in the feel when you go narrow?    2.15   for instance? The bike has a supreme on front 2" that's going on the back for now and a big apple on front. Took of Thai Camel mountain bike tyre on back so not putting that back on. No mountain bike tyre to match it anyway.
   Bugger I even had flat aways in as puncture protection. Ideas anyone?

sd

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 320
Re: GREEN APPLE HOW CAN I MAKE THEM MORE PUNCTURE PROOF??
« Reply #28 on: July 11, 2014, 04:17:47 PM »
I have changed my mind on aluminium v steel. My Thorn is less harsh/hard than Travelmaser Aluminium. Tried my old batterd aluminium still comfy ride??

sd

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 320
Re: GREEN APPLE HOW CAN I MAKE THEM MORE PUNCTURE PROOF??
« Reply #29 on: July 11, 2014, 09:54:42 PM »
Changed my mind about rear tyre. Difficult to change rear tyre Rohloff (thinking about in dark and rain etc . so put ATB marathon plus on. Got a flat tyre while it was on the bike stand..... How! Put the supreme on. Did an oil change at the same time and gave the chain good clean. With a bit of luck I will remember to oil it!
All that messing about not enough time to go to pub...devastated!