Author Topic: GREEN APPLE HOW CAN I MAKE THEM MORE PUNCTURE PROOF??  (Read 10362 times)

sd

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 320
GREEN APPLE HOW CAN I MAKE THEM MORE PUNCTURE PROOF??
« on: May 27, 2014, 11:30:29 am »
  I loved them when I used them comfort was unbelievable but puncture puncture puncture. Now I don't want to hear about you never having had a puncture in million miles, I used them and got punctures galore maybe where I cycle I don't know.  Now I believe they have improved the puncture protection? But anyone ever tried to add to it? I was thinking of lining the inside. Taking an old inner tube cut in half length ways. Then folded in half and glued around the inside of the tube? Daft idea?
« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 10:59:39 am by sd »

jags

  • Guest
Re: GREEN APPLE HOW CAN I MAKE THEM MORE PUNCTURE PROOF??
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2014, 03:58:49 pm »
SD if you really want to avoind the dreaded puncture then buy schwalble marathon plus near enough bomb proof ,i dont like them myself rather have the supreams.

jags

Andre Jute

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4068
Re: GREEN APPLE HOW CAN I MAKE THEM MORE PUNCTURE PROOF??
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2014, 06:37:08 pm »
He's trying to turn his Big Apples into Marathon Plus, Jags, by glueing in a rubber layer. The rubber layer in the Marathon Plus is 6mm thick though: that's a lot of tubes glued in, and bound to stiffen the tyre enough to interfere with the ride, quite possibly to the extent of ruining the ride of the Big Apples. It would depend on how much of the ride of Big Apple is from the pure volume of air inside, how much from a soft sidewall compared to the Marathon Plus, and how much from a more flexible rolling surface in the absence of the Plus's thick rubber band which gives it such extraordinary puncture protection. A guess, but only a guess, I'm willing to hazard is that the soft sidewall will have a surprisingly large influence, so that a stiffering of the rolling surface won't matter so much until it is quite thick.

jags

  • Guest
Re: GREEN APPLE HOW CAN I MAKE THEM MORE PUNCTURE PROOF??
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2014, 07:26:38 pm »
why would he bother Andre just get new tyres problem solved. ;D ;D


jags.

sd

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 320
Re: GREEN APPLE HOW CAN I MAKE THEM MORE PUNCTURE PROOF??
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2014, 10:58:41 am »
Have Marathon Plus on my Thorn and a spare pair which I will use on my new bike. I have just worn out one pair. The short amount of time I used big apple made me miss the comfort. They were lovely!!

jags

  • Guest
Re: GREEN APPLE HOW CAN I MAKE THEM MORE PUNCTURE PROOF??
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2014, 11:04:06 am »
SD the supreams are great  ;)

jags

Andre Jute

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4068
Re: GREEN APPLE HOW CAN I MAKE THEM MORE PUNCTURE PROOF??
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2014, 10:29:08 pm »
why would he bother Andre just get new tyres problem solved. ;D ;D
jags.

Sure, Jags; there are several kinds of Big Apple protection barriers available -- list at http://www.schwalbe.com/en/tour.html when you tick the "balloon" box -- including the 3mm natural rubber layer on the Big Apple Plus, a sort of a mongrel Big Apple out of a Marathon Plus. All SD has to do is spend the money. But he's trying to do it on the cheap with tyres he already has and took off for some reason only he knows.

Also, we don't necessarily know that the other versions of the Big Apple will ride as well as the beloved standard Big Apple, or the even more supple but now obsolete Big Apple Liteskin which I recommended for years, and of which I have a stock laid in to see me out.

jags

  • Guest
Re: GREEN APPLE HOW CAN I MAKE THEM MORE PUNCTURE PROOF??
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2014, 10:47:12 pm »
Andre just speaking of tyres, have you ever tried the grand bios?.

i've only ever tried schwalble plus and supreams.out of all the tyres ive tried on the sherpa the supreams was way the best.


jags.

Andre Jute

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4068
Re: GREEN APPLE HOW CAN I MAKE THEM MORE PUNCTURE PROOF??
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2014, 03:22:20 am »
Those Grande somethings are jumped-up Paselas, but I don't do narrow tyres at all; I have no roadie background whatsoever, and when I came into cycling I took one look at the 15mm tyres on the so-called "best bike" at the LBS, and said, "Are you having me on?" I started around 37mm, with Contis (rubbish that punctured all the time) and kept getting wider tyres, meanwhile discovering Schwalbe, moved through a Marathon Plus phase -- at least they didn't puncture, and on my lanes they were faster than anything else -- and eventually made a study of bike tyres and designed a bike around Big Apples from the ground up. I couldn't get my bike built but found a Utopia designed and built on the same principles, and have been very comfortable since, thank you. I'm not looking for different tyres and, if I were, I'd probably go for a very near relative of the Big Apples, like the Supremes you fancy so much.

sd

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 320
Re: GREEN APPLE HOW CAN I MAKE THEM MORE PUNCTURE PROOF??
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2014, 10:21:57 am »
Sure, Jags; there are several kinds of Big Apple protection barriers available -- list at http://www.schwalbe.com/en/tour.html when you tick the "balloon" box -- including the 3mm natural rubber layer on the Big Apple Plus, a sort of a mongrel Big Apple out of a Marathon Plus. All SD has to do is spend the money. But he's trying to do it on the cheap with tyres he already has and took off for some reason only he knows.

Also, we don't necessarily know that the other versions of the Big Apple will ride as well as the beloved standard Big Apple, or the even more supple but now obsolete Big Apple Liteskin which I recommended for years, and of which I have a stock laid in to see me out.
I am not trying to do it on the cheap as I sold the big apples ages ago. I just love the puncture protection of the Schwalbes Marathon Plus I am trying to mimic it on the big Apple. And I have already said why I took them off. The constant punctures often around 2am on the way back from the pub when it was bucketing down. That can be boring at times!
PS don't assume we all have the same money available. I am living on a relatively small pension. My aim in life is to buy £400 worth of goods with my £200 income!!

Andre Jute

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4068
Re: GREEN APPLE HOW CAN I MAKE THEM MORE PUNCTURE PROOF??
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2014, 01:04:00 pm »
I bought my Big Apples in bulk together with my bike and got them for the wholesale price. The first set has lasted over 7000km and is heading for 10,000km. That makes them cheap tyres compared to the Contis I used until about a dozen years ago, which just didn't last.

But if you have to buy new Big Apples anyway to glue half-tubes in them for extra protection, then you may as well do your homework, discover that there are several new kinds of Big Apples that have crossbred with the Marathon Plus, and thus have  the same protection. I don't imagine they would cost all that much more either new or secondhand than the plain Big Apples without the extra protection. Also, some Schwalbe tyres under other names are also balloons, and some of them look (and possibly work) like Big Apples with different treads for different purposes. The thing you want to look for is the sidewall off the old Big Apple Liteskin, which Schwalbe applied to at least some of the new range.

The Supreme that is very popular with people here may in fact suit.

John Saxby

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2003
Re: GREEN APPLE HOW CAN I MAKE THEM MORE PUNCTURE PROOF??
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2014, 04:49:30 pm »
SD, Mr Tuffy's tire savers work well as anti-puncture inserts.  They're inexpensive and seem to work.  Years ago, I used them successfully on the puncture-happy streets of New York City (and we lived in Da Bronx, mind, not the now-carefully-swept streets of Manhattan) (though even the latter weren't so carefully swept, back in the day).

With apologies, I've lost track of what bike you ride. If it's a Raven, and you're riding mostly on sealed/tarmac roads, the 1.6 Supremes have a good following (and from my very brief acquaintance, feel, well, superb and maybe even supreme.) There is an extended, ongoing, frequently funny and just-a-wee-bit-obsessive debate on crazyguyonabike on tires, especially about the puncture resistance & other qualities of various Schwalbes -- just set aside an afternoon and do a search for "Marathon Tour Plus".

Jags and Andre, there's some interesting commentary on Grand Bois and Compass Tires in the "Bicycle Quarterly" networks, and some on crazyguy, celebrating the ride qualities (comfort and handling) qualities and speed of wider tires with flexible sidewalls.  I know the speed thing may not be such a priority for touring bikes, but even some of the dedicated longdistance touring riders/writers on crazyguy are arguing the case for Grand Bois and Compass tires as touring tires. (And make a distinction between Panasela and the Grand Bois/Compass variants -- as did my LBS, interestingly enough: they no longer carry the Panaselas, 'cos of too many sidewall problems, but do sell Grand Bois as a top-of-the-line tire.)

Not sure when I'll wear out my Supremes, but I'd like to try the Compass 26 x 1.75's.

energyman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 603
Re: GREEN APPLE HOW CAN I MAKE THEM MORE PUNCTURE PROOF??
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2014, 05:02:05 pm »
Fill the inner tubes with slime or similar.  It worked 50 years ago and still works today.  (Many years ago son's cheapo mountain bike was plagued with punctures so I filled the tubes with slime.  No problems after that.  When he sold it the buyer changed the tyres & tubes and rang and asked what the green stuff was that was "leaking" out of the tubes was it toxic !  Apparently there were six punctures in the tubes all self sealed.
Either that or Marathon Plus's
« Last Edit: May 29, 2014, 05:05:06 pm by energyman »

jags

  • Guest
Re: GREEN APPLE HOW CAN I MAKE THEM MORE PUNCTURE PROOF??
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2014, 05:53:27 pm »
if i could afford it i would  get the 700x28  grand bios .they are hand made quality tyres that rides like a tub.i rode tubs for years fantastic tyre and ride .seems tubeless is the way to go these days but cant afford new wheels  ;D ;D.
i reckon puncture are down to bad luck a fella could go for years puncture free .


jags.

John Saxby

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2003
Re: GREEN APPLE HOW CAN I MAKE THEM MORE PUNCTURE PROOF??
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2014, 06:59:13 pm »
jags, Have a look at the 700c x 38 Compass tires here:  http://www.compasscycle.com/tires_700C.html

Not cheap, Schwalbe territory, and probably way too skinny for Andre, but when I replace the Vittoria Randonneur Pro's on my Eclipse (next year? -- haven't even ridden my Eclipse this year, yet) I'll look at these. 

Bike Touring News in Boise, Idaho (some distance due east of where Dan lives in Oregon) has a good newsletter with reports of rides in, um, a testing variety of conditions.  A couple years ago they did a cross-country test of three different tires that makes for interesting reading: 2 Schwalbes & a Grand Bois Hetre.  Here the opening link: http://biketouringnews.com/touring-bicycles/a-trio-of-tough-top-notch-tires/