Author Topic: oponion on these cranksets please.  (Read 24176 times)

Andre Jute

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Re: oponion on these cranksets please.
« Reply #30 on: June 15, 2013, 07:38:31 AM »
Thanks Andre any idea what width b/b i should get  my raleigh  b/b shell is 67mm measuring the width with outer bearing bottom bracket  outside to outside is 92mm.

http://www.xxcycle.com/bottom-bracket-stronglight-jp-400-al-bsc,,en.php
i think i'll go wih this by the time i buy spa's own brand and 3 rings it probably will cost as much.
besides that  price from xxcycles is not bad.

The Stronglight bottom bracket is one of those superior Kinex that I'm always going on about, with just a Stronglight label stuck on. I had a couple and they were superb. But it only makes sense to order up one of those if you're also ordering your cranksset from XX, otherwise it works out cheaper to get a Shimano BB from CRC, because they give Irish cyclist free delivery.

I have no idea what axle width your BB should have. What you want to do is line up the middle chainring with the middle of the rear cluster, so that under all circumstances your chain runs at the smallest angle. So the width of the rear cluster on the hub is the determining factor. If you're changing that as well, you must do it first so you have a datum for measuring/calculating.

Andre Jute

jags

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Re: oponion on these cranksets please.
« Reply #31 on: June 15, 2013, 01:29:01 PM »
Well i just ordered from SJS the newer triple impact and jp400 115 bottom bracket, price with postage £108 /i did try spa for the cheaper version but for some reason the credit card would not work  ::)
then went to xxcycles but they wanted zip codes and what have you, ::) we dont have zip or postal code in ireland.so i got fed up trying to fill in the form went with sjs besides i got my first choice of crankset ad i have an account there.

only reason i didnt go with sjs in first place is postage charges  mind you having said that it wasn't to bad this time.
will report back on the preformance of the new crankset when ever i get it on the road.
chers
anto.

Andre Jute

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Re: oponion on these cranksets please.
« Reply #32 on: June 15, 2013, 06:16:41 PM »
Well i just ordered from SJS the newer triple impact and jp400 115 bottom bracket, price with postage £108 /i did try spa for the cheaper version but for some reason the credit card would not work  ::)
then went to xxcycles but they wanted zip codes and what have you, ::) we dont have zip or postal code in ireland.so i got fed up trying to fill in the form went with sjs besides i got my first choice of crankset ad i have an account there.

only reason i didnt go with sjs in first place is postage charges  mind you having said that it wasn't to bad this time.
will report back on the preformance of the new crankset when ever i get it on the road.
chers
anto.

Yeah, often it doesn't cost all that much more just to get the best of the right thing from the right people.

I've long wanted a Kuretake No 13, a Japanese Kanji brush built into a fountain pen, but resisted paying €50 plus for something that costa the equivalent of €12 in Tokyo department stores. Of course, I've long since spent more than €50 on inadequate makeshifts (though now I'm an expert on the Kuretake No 22 manga brush, which is too big and ugly to carry in my pocket, but that's a different sort of gain) and days just windowshopping the real thing. €50 buys less than two minutes of my time... I should just have ordered the thing when I first decided it was the only tool for a particular piece of art I want to make.

Those postcode thingies that they demand you fill in will usually accept 0000, or more zeroes, or the county name as in COCORK or CO CORK. Flipping menace though, those one-size-fits-all programmers who frustrate you when you want to buy something.

But what really gets my goat is the idiots who think I'll buy anything from them if they won't tell me what carriage costs before I am committed to the purchase.

Give us a link to the actual crankset you bought so. There're are only about 3000 variations of these cranksets.

Andre Jute

Danneaux

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Re: oponion on these cranksets please.
« Reply #33 on: June 15, 2013, 06:41:50 PM »
Quote
But what really gets my goat is the idiots who think I'll buy anything from them if they won't tell me what carriage costs before I am committed to the purchase.
Agreed! Add the hassle of putting in the item and registering just to find final costs -- and then taking it all out again in disgust -- and those retailers make my short list of rejects very quickly indeed.

Best,

Dan. (...who likes to know his costs up-front)

jags

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Re: oponion on these cranksets please.
« Reply #34 on: June 15, 2013, 07:28:21 PM »
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/stronglight-impact-triple-chainset-silver-48-38-28t-prod18493/
nice or what  ;)
hopefully i'll get it next week and with my new wheels cxp33 36 hole 9 speed i should be away in a hack .
dont think i'll bother just yet changing the cassette of rear wheel just yet, i think i have a 25 on there so enough gear to get me out of any bother.
not just a pretty face i'll have you know ,if i can get my raleigh running super smooth i'm gonna load up the barley and start gettin some long spins in, i'm going to be doing a 200km audax at the end of july  ::) 2 of my friends (i have three) are coming along might not have any friends after this . ;D.

Andre Jute

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Re: oponion on these cranksets please.
« Reply #35 on: June 15, 2013, 11:50:58 PM »
Very nice indeed. I like the looks of that crank better than the other one in the Impact line, and I'll tell you a secret, it is fundamentally stronger too, because it is cold-forged, whereas the other one is hot-forged,

Andre Jute

jags

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Re: oponion on these cranksets please.
« Reply #36 on: June 16, 2013, 09:54:30 AM »
 ;) going to try it all out shortly Andre bit  of  luck i''ll have it during the week if sjs get there finger out  ;D ;D,just hope that bottom bracket is the right size .

ians

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Re: oponion on these cranksets please.
« Reply #37 on: June 17, 2013, 11:18:01 AM »
I too am a fan of the Spa cycles/sugino triple.  Just fitted one to my wife's Trek hybrid. 

Getting the correct BB can be a leap of faith.  The Spa triple (the £35 one) requires 110mm.  The existing one on my wife's bike (Shimano basic steel triple) is 122mm.  Seems a big difference to me, however .... I ordered the 110mm version, even though instinct thought it should be longer.

Measuring the chainline was surprisingly easy.  There's a screw in the underside of the BB shell which holds the plastic cable guide in place - smack bang in the middle of the shell.  To my great surprise, the Spa triple fitted to the 110mm axle has the same chain line as the Shimano with 122mm axle.

All hunky dory except for one thing.  When on the big chainring, the rear of the front changer cage just clips the crank.  Only by a couple of mm, but enough to be annoying.  Closer inspection shows the front changer cage (a cheap one) to be fairly wide.  So I guess a longer axle might have allowed the crank to clear the cage at the expense of a less than optimum chain line.

Although recommended BB lengths are based on chainset design, they must be affected to some extent by frame design too? (tube thickness for example). 

I sorted my wife's bike by judicious use of Molegrips.  But I didn't tell her that.

ian


jags

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Re: oponion on these cranksets please.
« Reply #38 on: June 17, 2013, 11:28:32 AM »
Got an email from john at spa this morning ,he was being very helpfull in recomminding what size cranks i need and maybe a different chainset,i had to eat humble pie and explain i went with sjs ooops. :-[

jags

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Re: oponion on these cranksets please.
« Reply #39 on: June 17, 2013, 06:11:19 PM »
great stuff chainset winging its way to me thanks sjs. ;)

macspud

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Re: oponion on these cranksets please.
« Reply #40 on: June 17, 2013, 08:43:08 PM »
All hunky dory except for one thing.  When on the big chainring, the rear of the front changer cage just clips the crank.  Only by a couple of mm, but enough to be annoying.  Closer inspection shows the front changer cage (a cheap one) to be fairly wide.  So I guess a longer axle might have allowed the crank to clear the cage at the expense of a less than optimum chain line.

Surely you could sort that problem by adjusting the outer limit screw.

jags

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Re: oponion on these cranksets please.
« Reply #41 on: June 17, 2013, 09:17:53 PM »
not if the bottom bracket is the wrong lenght. :o

ians

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Re: oponion on these cranksets please.
« Reply #42 on: June 17, 2013, 10:16:35 PM »
Surely you could sort that problem by adjusting the outer limit screw.

That was the first thing I tried.

I checked on the Sheldon Brown website and it makes the comment that fatter tubed bikes (MTB/Hybrids) may need a longer axle than steel frames because the front changer cage will be stick out further.  Should have read that first. 

So I assume the Spa/Sugino recommended axle length of 110mm is based on a steel frame.

NZPeterG

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Re: oponion on these cranksets please.
« Reply #43 on: June 17, 2013, 10:38:15 PM »
Hi
Your BB will be all ok! But if you can not adjust your front Derailleur change it to a MTB one which will work far better.
You are always better off running the shortist BB you can get away with. My Middleburn RS7 cranks say to fit them with a 113 BB axle! I use a 107 BB axle and all is good.
(Note on my new Big Dummy I have to run it with a 122 BB? Because the long long chain hits the back tyre!)
Find a good Bike Mech to look at you Bike if you can not work it out  >:(  Not a Nutcase like on that Youtube clip!
I know there is only a few good Bike Mech left in the world because too many people are shopping on line!

Sorry its time to go riding in the rain  :)

Pete . .  8)


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Danneaux

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Re: oponion on these cranksets please.
« Reply #44 on: June 17, 2013, 10:45:42 PM »
Hi Ian!

I feel your pain...getting the right replacement bottom bracket for the ideal chainline with a new crankset is sometimes a bit of a black art; so much depends on the offset of the spider from the crank arm itself -- and the individual bike and all the parameters related to it -- tube diameter, the width of the chainstays behind the BB, knobby tire clearance; the factors are myriad.

It sure isn't any fun ordering multiple bottom brackets in the hope of getting it right.

I usually do one of two things:

• If I already have a crankset and the chainline is correct -- and I wish to replace that crankset and bottom bracket with a new one of different design -- then I measure the BB length I have, take the difference with the new (recommended BB/crankset combo) and then I know the offset of the crank arm/spider compared to what I have and can use that information to choose the right BB spindle length.

• If I am going for new and have never fitted a BB or crankset before, then things get iffy in a hurry. Sometimes, as a double-check, I'll rob one of the crank/bb sets I own and test fit it, checking chainline to see how much it is off and how much shorter or longer the BB would need to be, then do the subtraction route to determine the offset on a new crank and hone in on what I need from there.

As for measuring chainline, it sure helps to have a wheel of the proper axle spacing ready to hand with the necessary cassette or freewheel already mounted. That takes care of the rear and you can choose which cogs you wish to optimize for chainline. I dearly love(d) half-step and granny gearing (say, 50/45/24 and 5-speeds or 48/45/24 and 7-speeds), and found it optimal to set things up so the split between middle and high chainrings on my triple crank hit the dead-center of my cogset. The innermost ("granny gear") would only be used with the bottom 3 or so cogs anyway, so it was pointless to set the triple crankset up so things aligned with the middle ring. With careful selection, my most-used gearing combinations all had near-perfect chainlines with little deflection and so were very long-lived. It also meant most of the dealer, online vendor, and factory chainline recommendations were out the window for my needs.

To measure chainline the easy way, just measure from the right side of the seat tube to the desired point on the crank, then add half the seat tube diameter to get to the "center". It sure helps when one doesn't have a bolt placed dead-center for reference (lucky you!  ;) I was never that fortunate  :-\ ).

Where things get really wooly is the way manufacturers report their BB spindle lengths. Some spindles are of equal length on each side, while others vary left-to-right...but only overall length is reported. This can really upset the apple-cart. I always check the manufacturer's site first and if the information is not there, then the email contacts begin so I can be assured of getting the right length. Most manufacturers are very pleased to help and even seem a little flattered by the interest. It is to their benefit to get a good fit and happy customer as well.
Quote
I guess a longer axle might have allowed the crank to clear the cage at the expense of a less than optimum chain line...I sorted my wife's bike by judicious use of Molegrips.
This may have been the best you could hope for with this particular derailleur/crank/BB combo, Ian, so a "well done" from me. Adding length to the right side of the spindle likely wouldn't have helped, as the cage would still have to center over the large 'ring and the space between the spider and back side of the crankarm is sparse. This was he bane of my existence when I tried to pair old T/A Cyclotouriste and Sronglight 49D crankarms with the newer wide-cage front mechs that came out on the 1980s. Sometimes, I had to mill a small groove on the backside of the arm to pick up the millimeter or two of needed clearance.  :-\ And...sometimes, a person can rotate the front mech around the seat tube a smidge and come out alright as well.

Best,

Dan. (...who used to shorten and re-weld front mech cages when he made his own compact 38/34/16, 13-34 drivetrains in the late-'70s/early-'80s using freewheel cogs as innermost chainrings)