Author Topic: super expensive frames  (Read 12677 times)

Danneaux

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Re: super expensive frames
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2013, 11:04:42 PM »
We want photos (of course).

Best,

Dan. (...who just read "man-bags" are the rage among NYC businessmen for carrying their electronics, but thinks they look just like the cyclists' musette bags that are the hot thing with Fixie-riding uni students here'bouts)

NZPeterG

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Re: super expensive frames
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2013, 11:10:37 PM »
Would you like a Photo!

Dark Brown..

Pete............


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jags

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Re: super expensive frames
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2013, 11:33:57 PM »
i thought you'de have it up by now. ;D

Danneaux

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Re: super expensive frames
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2013, 11:39:20 PM »
Quote
Would you like a Photo!
Well, sure! Andre has some nice bicycle luggage on his steed, made from repurposed handbags. They look fantastically good; very high-quality leather. They would have cost a fortune had they been bespoke for the bike.

My most-used bicycle tool roll used to be something else and I got it at the Goodwill thrift shop. A heavy-duty rubberized sort of fabric with zippered mesh compartments and such -- but was sneered at in a local bike shop 'cos it didn't have a name-brand sticker on it

These are even cooler than the bags used locally: http://www.velo-retro.com/musette.html

And! (to return to the thread topic) I saw one of these as I returned home on the bike path a few minutes ago: http://www.bikenhike.com/product/giant-tcr-advanced-sl-0-175142-1.htm  USD$9,600. The fellow riding it fairly flew past me as I rode the Nomad.

Best,

Dan. (...who uh "wasn't really trying" or he'd have given that Giant a run for the money -- right! ::))

jags

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Re: super expensive frames
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2013, 11:52:26 PM »
ah cant wait any longer me eyes are starting to close i'm knackered.nite nite all.

Andre Jute

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Re: super expensive frames
« Reply #20 on: August 11, 2013, 03:58:41 PM »
There's a twofold problem with leather on a bike. If it is really fine, like the ladies' Italian leather handbag I use for a saddlebag, it is thin and splits after a few years in the sun; I paid only about thirty or forty euro for that one on Ebay, delivered, so it will be no great loss if it wears out in seven or eight years, but if I bought it at retail for 500, which is what the sticker said, forgeddaboutit. If  the leather is thicker, it weighs too much. like the fancy washbag I use as a handlebar bag. So leather bike luggage has to be a happy mean, thick enough leather to last a reasonable time, but not so thick as to weigh a ton. That essentially means that full-leather luggage on a bike can't be too big, certainly not huge touring panniers. (And that's before they soak up their own weight of water -- and then some -- in a good persistent rain...) It's for that reason, rather than cost, because most of the cost is not in the materials but the labour, that Brooks' bigger bike bags are canvas, with just leather trim.

I used to use a canvas doctor's bag from La Madrilene in Paris that a girl gave me when I was a student (it had belonged to her grandfather, a noted psychiatrist) as a rack top bag, but it was a venerable antique with nostalgic and professional provenance in one of my professions, and fragile, and being damaged, so I stopped, But that would be the ideal bag, even having straps positioned just right to strap it to a rack.

I have proper branded cyclist's luggage in racktop and handlebar bags from Agu, and I like them for their functionality (they're superbly designed and made, and definitely waterproof) on less expensive bikes, but on my Kranich they just look cheap, like I fitted them without due consideration for the rest of the bike. As Dan says though, they were horribly expensive because all branded cycling gear is.

What I find is that, regardless of how attractive any of your luggage is for a particular purpose, none of it is all-purpose. I particularly hated the absolutely best bags for touring from a widely respected German maker because their roll tops, clearly the best thing for a tourer out in all weathers, for casual shopping panniers were just a nuisance. I kept them for a few weeks only because I loved the signal yellow they came in so much. By the same token I love the big, clumsy, ugly, totally inelegant Basil Cardiff pannier basket, because it works so well on an all-purpose utility bike. (For me, anyway. It's open-topped, but I live in a low-crime area, so nothing has ever disappeared from my basket when I have left the bike unattended with stuff in the basket.) Mine is tacky from use because until recently it was almost permanently on the bike; it only came off because I made a determined effort to slim the bike down both in width and in weight. You just chuck in a jacket, or a paint kit, or your brownbagged sammi, and off you go. But it does make you look a bit like a hausfrau out on her shopping, which might put off the more image-conscious cyclists.

Andre Jute

energyman

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Re: super expensive frames
« Reply #21 on: August 11, 2013, 07:12:16 PM »
Wot's so wrong with bling ? As long as it's locally sourced it just recycles money into the economy.  (Thank heavens that my late father can't read this !)

jags

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Re: super expensive frames
« Reply #22 on: August 11, 2013, 09:55:12 PM »
Wot's so wrong with bling ? As long as it's locally sourced it just recycles money into the economy.  (Thank heavens that my late father can't read this !)

don't be to sure about that. ;)

JWestland

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Re: super expensive frames
« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2013, 01:02:25 PM »
Carradice is still made in England, high-end Conti tires are made in Germany (I love their ad with the 4 hardcore looking women that work in factory) Steve Goff/Lee Cooper and many other small builders are still going strong.

If you pay em they do you as much bling as you want chrome plated frame plz lol
Pedal to the metal! Wind, rain, hills, braking power permitting ;)

Danneaux

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Re: super expensive frames
« Reply #24 on: August 12, 2013, 05:07:29 PM »
Hi All!

Some interesting questions at the root of the "expensive frame" thread, looking at what constitutes "good value" vs "over the top".

On the one hand, good value-for-money is always appreciated. Sometimes, that comes at a modest price and sometimes not. With high-priced items, sometimes the added value is incremental and disproportionately small given the overall cost; other times, one is paying for intangibles, like super-fine craftsmanship which is often unseen, a bit like finishing the back-sides of cabinet drawers in finely-crafted woodworking.

Here in the States, at least, the very presence of a visible name brand adds value to what is sometimes a very basic, even ordinary product. Sunglasses now commonly appear with the manufacturer's name on the temples or even silkscreened or etched on the upper margins of a lens. I recently bought some athletic trainers that happened to carry the manufacturer's name the entire length of the shoe as a design element. While a part of me feels I should be receiving sponsorship monies for wearing them, they were on sale for half price, making them a good value for me despite the hugely-displayed name.

I guess the question for each buyer/user comes down to individually-defined "value" -- however they choose to define that! For those who are more money-conscious, that value might be in performance-for-price, with perhaps some compromise on finish. For others, "only the best" will do, and that might require the incremental improvements only available in a top-line product, made so by the extra labor and care or more more costly materials required to produce such an outcome. Then, too, some value isn't seen until many years have passed and the superior product continues to outlast lookalikes made of lesser materials or with poorer craftsmanship. Some "classic' names persist to this day based on well-deserved reputations...and some are merely trading on names and reputations made in days gone by.

I think the reasons behind buying decisions are as personal as, well, personality, and the benefit of that is economic stimulus and a push for product development and variety. There's *always*  market for a better mouse-trap -- or maybe just one made in a different color or with different materials. No bad thing; this makes the world a but less boring and spurs innovation and product differentiation to prevent a bland landscape of "me too" production.

Some recent expensive purchases proved to have poor value for me when I found some significant flaws in how they worked in my use, in meeting my needs. Despite careful market research and due diligence, they just didn't pan out. On the other side, I've occasionally been surprised at the remarkable value I've found in lesser products by obscure manufacturers. Manufacturing and sourcing models are all changing, and the final product we buy is often assembled from many smaller products from a variety of sources instea dof being made entirely in-house by a single firm. This has resulted in unprecedented recalls in the automotive market as things like air bags prove faulty in otherwise reliable vehicles.

Having tootled around on touring bikes and never raced, I'm not sure I could discern the difference between a USD$5,000 carbon-framed bike and one costing twice that much (never ridden either, so I can't say). I likely experience a far more noticeable contrast when I switch between my 60-70kg Nomad loaded with expedition load and my unladen 14.5kg rando bike; the comparison feels like supertanker-to-rocketship, but I soon adjust either way and each is the much-loved appropriate tool for the task.

Some might view the super-expensive bike as a vehicle for poseurs, but if it makes the rider feel that much more special or adds that little but more satisfaction or enjoyment to each Sunday ride 'round the park, who's to say it isn't worth it? There can be real joy in operating fine, light, precision-crafted equipment -- even at a fraction of its potential -- and one needn't be a professional to enjoy it and realize some benefit in use.

In the end, you pay your money for what you want and you get what you get. Over time, reputations are made, and trends develop, and word of mouth spreads, and good decisions can be made regardless of price.

I'd be interested to hear what constitutes "good value" or "worth for money" in your eyes. Build quality? Innovation? Longevity? Fitness for purpose? Repairability? Reliability (so repairability isn't an issue!)? Aesthetics? Name brand? There must be as many reasons as there are points in space or stars in the sky. Me? I've got a soft spot for finely-crafted lugwork -- chromed is even better! -- but will happily go with TiG'd joints if that gets the job done and meets my overall needs. Functionally, my welded Nomad with oversize tubing is just as pretty to my eyes as my bikes with hand-cut chromed lugs and traditional tubing diameters. Horses for courses and...I like both! So...what do you really value in bicycles, and what makes it worth the money? Can "super expensive" frames really be "worth it"?

Best,

Dan. (...who thinks the stars aligned for really great value-for-cost in cars and bicycles in 1989)

NZPeterG

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Re: super expensive frames
« Reply #25 on: August 15, 2013, 11:53:18 AM »
Hi All,
I have had a few PM about if I'm OK or Upset about remarks posted in this Port  :o

All is OK, with you all on this post  ;) (some times I do need and do just walk away when someone asks how to fix some thing and I get cut down by people who Do not know what they are talking about  :( )

I have been busy looking at buying a new Bike frame (a light bike frame) to help make me a better rider... ???

Here you go a photo of a low cost and an expensive one..



Low end Trials Bike.



High end (expensive) Trials Bike

I'm looking for a good mid range last years frame only on sale at a low cost  ;D

Pete all cool  8)

Note: You all on this post are cool and we were just having a little fun  :-* and yes I may have to post a photo of a few of my man bags  ;)


« Last Edit: August 15, 2013, 11:55:08 AM by NZPeterG »
The trouble with common sense is it is no longer common[

http://kiwipetesadventures.tumblr.com/

http://kiwipetescyclingsafari.blogspot.co.nz/

Looked after by Chris @ http://www.puresports.co.nz/
For all your Rohloff and Thorn Bicycle's in NZ

jags

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Re: super expensive frames
« Reply #26 on: August 15, 2013, 12:39:17 PM »
good so please don't pay much heed to my  smart comments its just  anto having the craic. ;)

NZPeterG

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Re: super expensive frames
« Reply #27 on: August 15, 2013, 12:51:16 PM »
good so please don't pay much heed to my  smart comments its just  anto having the craic. ;)

All Good

Maybe you need a new Bike with No Seat?

Pete  :P



The trouble with common sense is it is no longer common[

http://kiwipetesadventures.tumblr.com/

http://kiwipetescyclingsafari.blogspot.co.nz/

Looked after by Chris @ http://www.puresports.co.nz/
For all your Rohloff and Thorn Bicycle's in NZ

jags

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Re: super expensive frames
« Reply #28 on: August 15, 2013, 01:30:45 PM »
i dont think so pete i'm sitting here in agony my back is killing me i think i strained it yesterday doing some work. ::)

Danneaux

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Re: super expensive frames
« Reply #29 on: August 15, 2013, 07:17:07 PM »
Hi Pete!

As a hobbyist framebuilder, I remain fascinated by such trials bikes and the incredible strength of their designs. They really are purpose-built, and seeing them used by those who know how is truly amazing.

All the best,

Dan.