super expensive frames

[il padrone]

My most-used bicycle tool roll used to be something else and I got it at the Goodwill thrift shop. A heavy-duty rubberized sort of fabric with zippered mesh compartments and such -- but was sneered at in a local bike shop 'cos it didn't have a name-brand sticker on it

http://vintagebikecave.com/shop/hdb038-brooks-copper-plated-bicycle-saddle-badge/


 

[Danneaux]

bicycle tool roll...sneered at in a local bike shop 'cos it didn't have a name-brand sticker on it

http://vintagebikecave.com/shop/hdb038-brooks-copper-plated-bicycle-saddle-badge/

Best,

Dan. (...who is thinking "That solves that!"  )

[JWestland]

Or change bikeshop

I can't say I am knowledgeable enough to discern between high-end frames/lower end ones (bar weight and finish) providing both are made with the same quality. There's not fancy brands like Ribble/Dolan that do you probably just as good (or very, very)nearly a bike as Colnago/Bianchi for about half the cash.

Often it's all in the head no doubt. I like handmade frames as they have a name and a person to them. It's not a big brand but a small business of somebody who turned their hobby into work and likes to go to work.

Well...that's how I imagine it at least!

Is my hand fillet brazed in UK XTC frame technically better than a TIG welded made in Taiwan frame? Probably not.
Did Thorn make the right call moving production to Taiwan? Probably.

But if I ever save up big for a bike it will *most likely* be a handmade frame. Again, all in the head

[jags]

http://www.rapha.cc/mercian/?cm_mmc=email-_-130813-_-img-_-mercian
i love old school builders these guys are brilliant.

[Andre Jute]

Is my hand fillet brazed in UK XTC frame technically better than a TIG welded made in Taiwan frame? Probably not.
Did Thorn make the right call moving production to Taiwan? Probably.

Thorn is probably not the best example anyway; they don't charge for the name but a fair price for the physical bike you ride away on. What makes a good custom bike such a pleasure to own and use is the obsessive attention given to every detail; if the details are slighted, it isn't worth having. But the main thing about Thorns is that they are made by obsessives. You can read reams of Andy Blance agonizing over the smallest detail of the frame, and every component, right out in public. You can see where he and his wife tested the details in some pretty rough places. You know what you're paying for: the maker as much as invites you to add it up, and challenges you to find that much technical advantage cheaper somewhere else.

In 2009 I analysed an extreme example of the sort we want at
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topicsearchin/rec.bicycles.tech/WHY$20A$20WATERFORD$20BIKE$20IS$20A$20JOKE
when I priced a Waterford frame held up to me as the ne plus ultra by American roadies hounding me for having bought a German bike, and discovered the frame alone cost more than my complete, fully fitted bike (Rohloff, SON, BUMM, Magura, Schwalbe, Brooks, the best of everything, with custom components made to suit the balloon tyres where necessary). The irony is that Waterford is the premium line of Paramount, the parent firm of Schwinn, who invented the balloon-tyred beach cruiser, of which my Utopia Kranich is a sort of hugely developed distaff cousin (it is a bike designed from the 60mm Big Apples up), whereas Schwinn are stuck in a time warp, charging huge sums for chrome plating while offering nothing but their name to justify charging five times as much as Utopia for the frame and fork. Or more than five times as much as Bob Jackson, or four times as much as Mercia, which Anto likes, and I do too. Mind you, they paint the name Waterford huuuuge on the down tube so nobody poorer than the person who bought it can miss it. I think that may be the point, your bike's expensive name as ostentatious exclusivity.

Andre Jute

[macspud]

In 2009 I analysed an extreme example of the sort we want at
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topicsearchin/rec.bicycles.tech/WHY$20A$20WATERFORD$20BIKE$20IS$20A$20JOKE
when I priced a Waterford frame held up to me as the ne plus ultra by American roadies hounding me for having bought a German bike, and discovered the frame alone cost more than my complete

Wow, I read a couple of pages of that thread and had to bale on it. A charming bunch aren't they! Most of them dim witted (to say the least), many other phases come to mind. Best off out of it, I'd say.
You're better off on this site Andre.
 

[Andre Jute]

Wow, I read a couple of pages of that thread and had to bale on it. A charming bunch aren't they! Most of them dim witted (to say the least), many other phases come to mind. Best off out of it, I'd say.
You're better off on this site Andre.
 

Here in Ireland we say "I knooooow" in a long-drawn out tone, very meaningful. Why do you think I hang out on this forum? And report most of my DIY experiments here? The terrible thing is that RBT was once the home base of great bicycle engineers and mechanics like Jobst Brandt and the late lamented Sheldon Brown. Sic transit gloria.

Of course it isn't the place, it's the attitude of the members that make a forum great or, shall we just say -- otherwise.

Andre Jute

[Danneaux]

'Glad you're here with us, Andre.

The same goes for the lot of you!  With a different attitude, this Forum would be a very different place. One needn't go far for examples of just how different things might be.

All the best,

Dan.

[JWestland]

Thorn is probably not the best example anyway; they don't charge for the name but a fair price for the physical bike you ride away on. What makes a good custom bike such a pleasure to own and use is the obsessive attention given to every detail; if the details are slighted, it isn't worth having. But the main thing about Thorns is that they are made by obsessives. You can read reams of Andy Blance agonizing over the smallest detail of the frame, and every component, right out in public. You can see where he and his wife tested the details in some pretty rough places. You know what you're paying for: the maker as much as invites you to add it up, and challenges you to find that much technical advantage cheaper somewhere else.

In 2009 I analysed an extreme example of the sort we want at
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topicsearchin/rec.bicycles.tech/WHY$20A$20WATERFORD$20BIKE$20IS$20A$20JOKE

I think that may be the point, your bike's expensive name as ostentatious exclusivity.

Andre Jute

Ow I know, Thorn are made by obsessives, my comment was more to note that a value aspect of expensive frames (hand-made by a person you can identify) doesn't necessarily equal better technical value. Snob as I am, I do derive pleasure from small firm bikes (Thorn/Ciocc etc..) and handmade frames (Thorn/Ciocc) from small workshops. It doesn't make for a better bike necessarily.

Steve Goff does good value bikes and he can use custom lugs if you deliver them. See: http://forum.ctc.org.uk/download/file.php?id=7665&sid=f6ff56455096b277471ae400cbde06ed for very reasonable prices.

But the name can make so much difference, especially with vintage bikes. Campagnolo SR looks gorgeous, costs more than Stronglight which has made some gorgeous parts too. Colnago's are sought after, but I've seen nice frames on ebay.it to the same detail, but the makers are not famous. Guilty by association I didn't put Stronglight/Ofmega on my vintage bike ^_^

Second/Third the forum friendliness. On another bike forum where there's very helpful people and some people that are a bit less so. I'm too old to have to prove superiority by being unfriendly!

(or is that ageism against younger people? I wouldn't say I'm mature though...that's insulting the truly mature)

[Danneaux]

I'm too old to have to prove superiority by being unfriendly!

(or is that ageism against younger people? I wouldn't say I'm mature though...that's insulting the truly mature)

That's it; I'm framing this to put on my wall.

 

All the best,

Dan.

[Andre Jute]

I wouldn't say I'm mature though...that's insulting the truly mature)

I've been planning for a few decades to make time to grow up, but life keeps interfering.

Andre Jute

[NZPeterG]

Hi All So which is the best to buy?

The low cost Frame/Bike? or the high cost (Topend) Frame/Bike?

I'm looking into Buy a New Mountain Bike   do I buy the low end or the top end?



High Cost Ltd made design




Low Cost STD colour Hardtail


Pete  

.

[Relayer]

Hi All So which is the best to buy?

The low cost Frame/Bike? or the high cost (Topend) Frame/Bike?

I'm looking into Buy a New Mountain Bike   do I buy the low end or the top end?



High Cost Ltd desgin


Pete  

.

With a paint job like that, the high end frame will obviously go much faster.  

[Relayer]

At the moment I am patiently awaiting the arrival of a shiny new black Silly Troll frameset.  Now, I know that isn't a super expensive frame, but the consequences of it could well be if my resolve is not super strong.   

The thing is, there's a little red guy with a pointy stick sitting on my shoulder, whispering in my ear, "you know that once you've got that frame you'll have to get a shiny new red anodised Rohloff disc hub to go with it!!   

Jim  (... whose bank manager may well be kinda surly sometime soonish)

[JWestland]

^ Hah lol I know that feeling 

Another thing with expensive frames is the beauty factor. Sometimes the feeling you get from something Really Nice is worth something in £££.

My vintage bike is framing worthy for me. Which is what happens in winter anyway...no way I am going to expose it to grit/slush!