Whither the future: Thorn's derailleur vs Rohloff bikes

[Andre Jute]

....if Thorn really want to rationalise their range swap out drop outs would be the way to go, no more EBB one frame for either gear system makes sense to me

Nah, Andy Blance has already said, in the context of the Gates Drive belt transmission, that the split rear triangle is an abomination. If he won't agree to splitting one side, asking him to split both sides...

But there's a fixed rear triangle design that has a separate axle hanger which can and does often incorporate a hanger for the chain tensioner necessary for derailleur setups. I have it on one of my bikes and it is vastly superior to the eccentric bottom bracket, but probably quite a bit more expensive to engineer well as precision machining is involved. Pics with assembly details at http://coolmainpress.com/ajwriting/tuning-out-chain-stretch-on-internal-hub-bicycles-fixies-single-speed-and-derailleur-bikes-by-andre-jute/

[Bill C]

that's the sort of drop out i had in mind,
it might cost a bit more but it would really increase the market for the frames 
also the extra cost on the frame would be outweighed by the security of knowing you have a fall back should the hub die,
i might be tempted onto the Hoff bandwagon but knowing i'm scuppered should it die is the deciding factor

[il padrone]

Every time you adjust the chain tension, you have to reset your brakes, and maybe any mudguard being used.

I call that an inferior system to the EBB.

[Andre Jute]

Every time you adjust the chain tension, you have to reset your brakes, and maybe any mudguard being used.

I call that an inferior system to the EBB.

You call it whatever you like, Pete. But I have a bike with slotted, sliding axle hangers like those illustrated (in fact Bernd Rohloff designed them for my bike) and I've never, not once, had to reset the brakes or the mudguards after adjusting chain tension. And the clearances on my bike are close.

An EBB has a known inevitable failure mode built in. That makes it an inferior system.

[Huernie]

Lots of chat about the possibility of Rohloff hub failing. Does anyone factually know of any individual who has been stuck because of a 'catastrophic' failure? My hub developed an issue on a tour, slipping in a number of gears, (ironically in Germany and I was able to take it to an official service centre.) They couldn't sort the issue but contacted head office who offered to fix it and to courier it back to me within 3 days. Unfortunately I was short on time to catch a plane so took their advice which was "Ride it anyway, your hub will not completely fail.""No one has ever been stuck through a catastrophic failure."I rode the 800 miles to Budapest and sent the hub off for repair when I got home to Scotland. No warranty - no questions - no charge - great service.

Interestingly enough, when discussing the pros and cons the the Rohloff, loads of talk goes into "what if it fails?" or, "it's expensive but cost less over the life of the hub compared to replacing a derailleur system." No one seems to talk about how good it is to ride with. I'm not knocking derailleurs (having just ordered a shiny new Thorn one - one week and counting). Sure it's not infallible,but I don't agree that the Rohloff is simply 'hype.' 

[jags]

http://www.campagnolo.com/WW/en/Mechanical_Groupsets/chorus/road

feast your eyes on this lot .
ah yes this carbon gear should be banned ugly'ist gear ever made and deadly dangerous.
this campagnolo must be new stuff haven't a clue  what.

[Bill C]

Lots of chat about the possibility of Rohloff hub failing. Does anyone factually know of any individual who has been stuck because of a 'catastrophic' failure?,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but I don't agree that the Rohloff is simply 'hype.'

no i haven't heard of a complete failure, but that doesn't mean they won't or can't break,
all that gubbins and techno wizardery just to turn a back wheel at a different ratio, seems the exact opposite of making a failsafe touring bike, K.I.S.S springs to mind
apple owners don't believe it's hype either  but we android users know the truth

[Bill C]

http://www.campagnolo.com/WW/en/Mechanical_Groupsets/chorus/road

feast your eyes on this lot .
ah yes this carbon gear should be banned ugly'ist gear ever made and deadly dangerous.
this campagnolo must be new stuff haven't a clue  what.

Jags the last time i saw that much fibre it was a reliant robin,
you go with your carbon, the rest can have the hoffs, i just want the nicest 26 derailleur bike i can get

[il padrone]

An EBB has a known inevitable failure mode built in. That makes it an inferior system.

Failure mode ??  What is this failure that will ensue?

[il padrone]

http://www.campagnolo.com/WW/en/Mechanical_Groupsets/chorus/road

feast your eyes on this lot .
ah yes this carbon gear should be banned ugly'ist gear ever made and deadly dangerous.
this campagnolo must be new stuff haven't a clue  what.

Jags, stop being facetious. No-one is saying that at all, certainly not I. All I have been contending is that for much touring, especially extended, fully-loaded touring, or into remoter areas, the questions of durability are a real issue. One I'd rather not have to deal with out on a tour. And one of much greater reality than a Rohloff hub 'failure'.

Now if you can show me a well designed carbon touring bike that can  take front and rear pannier racks, is warranteed to carry 25-30kgs of gear plus the rider, and there has been sustained use of such a bike by long-distance tourers, I shall change my opinions on this.

But carbon has been shown over time to be well-suited to day rides, racing, café-touring, and maybe even some of this bikepacking lurk.

[il padrone]

all that gubbins and techno wizardery just to turn a back wheel at a different ratio, seems the exact opposite of making a failsafe touring bike, K.I.S.S springs to mind

Now you're really just playing the Luddite 

[il padrone]

OK. Some time back Focus in Germany did the Silver Haze in carbon, as a 'touring bike'. No front rack mounting possible though. Not on their range any more.

[leftpoole]

Hello,

All I mentioned was a thought about  updating (?) brightening (?) Rohloff?
This has turned into a great read!
Thanks one and all.
Regards,
John

[jags]

Now now il padrone be nice  to anto. 

carbon is the way forward  when it comes to cycling frames and groupsets  and probably jet planes   racing cars .. i said before im not interested in adventure touring  tarmac does it for me as smooth as butter tarmac .
how did adventure   cycle tourist ever cross  the planet before rohloff,  truly  amazing they even got 100 yds up the feckin road with all that loaded gear.

billc c if you want a gem of a bike   doesent matter the frame although the sherpa would do the job then  fit  campag reckord carbon groupset  or shimano dura ace d12 and away u go for as many miles as your little legs will take you trouble free  cycling. 

[il padrone]

You mean you haven't twigged yet that what Thorn does (and St John Street Cycles) is top class touring bikes and gear ??

All this talk of Thorn making carbon and bling bikes is like the Pope holding a conference on the merits of hard drugs, rock & roll, and knocking shops