Rohloff's load-bearing bearings

[jawj]

Hello Everyone,
I am on the very cusp of buying a Rohloff-equipped bike as it must surely be the way forward. Much noise is made about the reliability and longevity of the gearing system, and rightly so it would seem BUT...
i can't find anything anywhere about how the hub performs the most basic function of being a hub i.e. allowing your wheel to go 'round.
Anybody got any ideas/tales of how the wheel bearings perform and hold up and, crucially, how easy they are to replace...?

[PH]

I'm not sure I understand your point.  From looking at the exploded diagram and animation of the hub it doesn't have anything comparable to normal wheel bearings.
 http://www.sjscycles.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=710

There doesn't seem to be any user servicable parts inside the hub itself, so I'd guess Rohloff designed any bearings to last the lifetime of the hub and nobody knows what that is yet[]

[Arnaud]

It is all about trust (without the h)!
Rohloff is a small family enterprise who has been producing this unique product in modest numbers for over ten years; without great fanfare.As a small (very small) business owner myself I believe in underpromising and overdelivering: the customer gets more than he or she expected.Big Business does it the other way with lots of advertising and marketing and using their product is often less exciting than reading the promotional material.
Producing high volumes of anything always comes at the cost of quality: to sell big numbers of anything you have to bring the price down and spend heaps on advertising to reach the masses; this reduces what you can allocate to making the product itself.
I am not an engineer but I am convinced that Rohloff spends less on marketing and more on quality bearings than the big boys in the game.
I trust the guys.

[jawj]

Mmmm... interesting. Surely Rohloff hubs DO have something comparable to normal wheel bearings: there appears to be three sets of cartridge bearings on the axle in the movie. Cartridge bearings are great cos of their ease of replacement so my pondering is: how easy are they to replace in a Rohloff hub? Even really great quality bearings need replacing eventually... unless the bearings DON'T need replacing, which would be the best thing in the world EVER!

[goosander]

As you say it appears that there are three sets of cartridge bearings, with two on the drive side to cope with the additional stresses present. I'd hazard a guess that they probably aren't easily user replaceable, but given that they appear to be quite chunky by bicycle standards and that they run in an oil bath, I'd reckon that they ought to last the life of the hub just as the bearings in a car gearbox will generally last for the useful life of the gearbox.

[PH]

quote:Originally posted by jawj

Mmmm... interesting. Surely Rohloff hubs DO have something comparable to normal wheel bearings: there appears to be three sets of cartridge bearings on the axle in the movie.

They're not comparable because they're not load bearing in the same way as they would be on a freewheel hub. I'm not saying they don't bear any load, but when you remove the inner workings from the shell it's obvious that the load is not on them.  The Rohloff handbook lists the wearable parts, bearing aren't included.  If they needed servicing or replacing, I'm sure there be some information available and the parts would be listed on someones price list.
If you're the sort of person who enjoys servicing, maybe the Rohloff isn't for you.  There really is very little to do[]

[stutho]

As I understand it the bearings are NOT user serviceable.  BUT the expected life is greater than 100,000km.  This is partly due to the bearing being sealed inside an oil bath.

[jawj]

They're not comparable because they're not load bearing in the same way as they would be on a freewheel hub.

Wow, it's taken me more than two years to read what was written here!

What I was skeptical about was what seems to be a denial that the Speedhub has bearings, or something along those lines. It must run on bearings or bushings and since bushings aren't that great for this application, it MUST be bearings and those bearings MUST bear the weight of the bike, rider and load when the wheel is spinning.

What I wanted to know at the time was do those bearings ever need replacing or servicing. It appears the general consensus is that they run in the oil bath and so will last as long as the rest of the hub internals. Right...?

[stutho]

That about sums it up!

[heltonbiker]

I agree with stutho and grossander, and put some FACTS:

All bearings do need replacement sometime on remote future;
Rohloff has bearings and they're BIG;
They are of a superior material, are sealed and work in oil bath;
Tey are not supposed to need replacement;
Nobody knows how much they will last;
You need to trust what they say in order to be happy with one of these.

Helton

[expr]

There are five bearings in a rohloff, three at the drive end and two at the non drive side. The two large main hub bearings are 47mm od x 35mm id x 7mm wide. The two smaller 28mm x 12mm x8mm are fitted in the driver itself and the smaller 22mm x 9mm x 7mm is fitted to the shifting shaft. The two larger bearings (47mm) use the hub oil as lubricant as they are open sided, the two driver bearings are sealed and use the grease within them to lubricate along with the shifting shaft bearing which is also sealed.

They are certainly not superior bearings and will not withstand any water within the hub which has caused problems for some people, due to the fact that the oil seals on the outer of the hub have let water in and corroded the bearings.

All of the bearings can be replaced by the user if you have the knowledge and tools.


47mm bearing code - SKF # 61807
22mm bearing code -This is a custom bearing only, I can supply, if you have difficulty getting one (which you will)

28mm bearing code - SKF # 6001 2RSH

The bearings fitted are of standard supply and are available from most bearing supplies although the 47mm ones are not listed at some suppliers.

[heltonbiker]

@expr

Well, that's what I call a lot of facts. Thanks for the information on bearings!

[willywombat]

just to update this thread there have been quite a few complaints re worn/wobbly bearings needing to be sorted at the factory (sometimes more than once on the same hub). I have personally seen at least a dozen different people mention this on various cycle forums and have had the problem myself , so in  essence they are certainly not as indestructable as the sales blurb likes to pretend. On the bright side their customer service seems very good if things do go pear shaped and are sorted fairly quickly even on hub's out of warranty .

[travellingman]

Rohloff and Thorn have done a fine job of brainwashing people into thinking these hubs are indestructable. Bearings are largely er, bearings and even in oil bath sooner or later they'll need replacing.

[MilitantGraham]

Any advice on replacing the drive side bearing myself ?

Looking at this picture, it's item number 3 I want.

Looking at this picture, it looks like it's simply a matter of removing the sprocket, then splitting the main hub body and tapping the bearing and seal out.

I take it that's the 61807 bearing ?
Does anyone know the dimensions of the seal, as I might as well replace that at the same time ?

I've got three hubs and the side play at the rim is 3.22mm & 1.54mm on the two 29er rims and 0.83mm on the 26er rim.
3.22mm feels pretty bad to ride.