29er Thorn MTB?

[jimmer]

Ooooh! Shudder! Dan, get your psychic tentacules out of my brain hole. My guard was down while I was up a ladder wrapping the house in tin foil to prevent the Google - CIA nexus mining my big data and in you popped. In reply to Swilson's thread "Which Thorn?" You suggest a 29er Thorn may be the need of the hour, much as I have also been thinking of late.

Rather than pitch in on another's thread I thought I'd chuck this up in the air.

I'm considering a new bike for exclusively MTB duties. I'm up for fettling as much as anyone but the half hour or so either side of off road riding needed to get the Catalyst configured with sus forks and knobblies is becoming a bit tedious. A bike I can just jump on and ride should make it more likely that I do just that.

I'll keep the Catalyst for the daily commute, allotment trailer hauling and touring.

I've ridden the local trails on a mate's 29er and found it a most agreeable experience, once I'd overcome the vertigo and mopped up the nose bleed, so I think they may be the way to go.

Exhaustive research has thrown up very few contenders in the Steel Rohloff compatible corner:

http://www.pipedreamcycles.com/product/skookum-reynolds-853-29er/ might do, but sliding dropouts are a drawback (pun intended) and the split seat stays are scarier than the elevated position.

One entry in the 'hoff serial number registry peaked my interest, Wheezy's bespoke 29er; doubtless too spenny to be a realistic option, alas.

It seems that there is at least a tiny dent, if not quite a gaping hole, in the market into which a 29er Enduro would ideally fit. There you go Andy Blance, I've done my bit, now get to work.

Thorn seem to have backed out of the exclusively MTB market, the Enduro, Catalyst and Sterling are discontinued. Possibly due to market saturation by a rash of booteek steel hardtails. A steel Rohloff driven 29er, designed for trails and day long XC, with an EBB and the kind of detailling that Thorn do as standard is the kind of offer just not currently available, I think.

An idea worthy of the Thorn name or an affront to decency?

Yours, James

[bobs]

Why bother when the Surly Ogre does such a good job and covers all bases and wilkk be cheaper.

Bob

[Danneaux]

Ooooh! Shudder! Dan, get your psychic tentacules out of my brain hole. My guard was down while I was up a ladder wrapping the house in tin foil to prevent the Google - CIA nexus mining my big data and in you popped. In reply to Swilson's thread "Which Thorn?" You suggest a 29er Thorn may be the need of the hour, much as I have also been thinking of late.

Worse, James; I'm in league with Santa Claus. The upside? I'll put in a good word for you! 

Good topic for a standalone thread!

All the best,

Dan. (...who knows tinfoil isn't what it's cracked up to be as a Faraday Cage)

[brummie]

Why bother when the Surly Ogre does such a good job and covers all bases and wilkk be cheaper.

Bob

The Surly's horizontal dropouts - although they are Rohloff compatible, are much more off a faff to remove the wheel & re-align disc rotors ( if using them ) than Thorn's dropout / eccentric BB system.

[NZPeterG]

Hi All,
I just got my New 29"er tonight 
Got it out of the Box and Build Her up, Ride Her home, and may take Her to Bed tonight 

The next best thing to a Rohloff Hub is the new Sram 1 x 11 groupset..




Pete....

[NZPeterG]

O' No you can see Tom in the back ground! 

Pete.... 

[brummie]

O' No you can see Tom in the back ground! 

Pete.... 

Oh no you're right - quick put Tom in the foreground where he belongs !

[Danneaux]

Oh no you're right - quick put Tom in the foreground where he belongs !

Agreed, Brummie! 

Best,

Dan.

[bobs]

The Surly's horizontal dropouts - although they are Rohloff compatible, are much more off a faff to remove the wheel & re-align disc rotors ( if using them ) than Thorn's dropout / eccentric BB system.

My mate changed from a Raven to a Surly Troll. His Rohloff  fits fine, it can run a derailleur  if required canti or disc brakes. Surly like a lot of other manufacturers don't have a problem running disc brakes with steel forks. If I didn't have a Sterling I might be tempted by a Troll.

Bob

[brummie]

My mate changed from a Raven to a Surly Troll. His Rohloff  fits fine, it can run a derailleur  if required canti or disc brakes. Surly like a lot of other manufacturers don't have a problem running disc brakes with steel forks. If I didn't have a Sterling I might be tempted by a Troll.

Bob

Yes, I agree, the Rohloff etc. do fit the Surly - it's just slower ( more of a faff ! ) to remove the wheel.

[jimmer]

Dear All,

I took a look at the Ogre previously, was intrigued but had some reservations.

There's a lot of metal on those extravagent drop outs supporting all the possible drivetrain and braking possibilities, perhaps adding to the existing back wheeled weight bias of the 'hoff.

All that extra metal work would be redundant, I want to run a 'hoff.

The disk brake tracks seem vulnrable.

The need to undo and realign disk brakes does at least give sliding drop outs an advantage over something. Perhaps I'm being unfair. Undoing a QR, pulling back the wheel and adjusting two bolts on the Surly, assuming the tracks maintain alignment vs the four bolts of a siding dropout, there probably isn't that much in it. Neither has the reassurance of vertical dropouts, mind.

I'm being mindful of other's sensitivities, but the kindest thing that can be said of that back end is that it's... busy. To my mind it suggests nothing so much as the front end of a 2CV crossed with a startled fish.

There are no chainstay guides for the rohloff cables.

It's designed for 80mm sus forks, which are hard to get. I'd like a bit more bounce though 29" wheels do, apparently, enhance suspension effectiveness.

These objections disappear on the 29" Enduro, only to be replaced by another far greater, its non-existance.

Were the Karate Monkey to be 'hoffable I'd be tempted.

Yours, James

[Pavel]

as much as I love my Nomad for the role it is good for ... I would MUCH rather the setup for the surleys as an attachment system for the Rohlof that the system we have for the Thorns. It is so daft in practice that I simply never adjust the chain, and I do resent having to carry a specialized tool.
I think the negative comments, like slower to change a wheel are more a fact of running a disk brake on top of the Rollhof, not the fact of having the Rohlof adapter plate.  One does not have to run disks on the Surly's however - though one can. Adjusting the chain on a Surly is so much easier ... I'm almost tempted to buy a Ogre ... since I find little appeal in the extra mass of a 29" wheel.
Hmmm.  Kind of got me thinking here!  I do hav that second Rohlof in my Moulton.  I could have a second tourer, more for off road use for pretty cheap.  But I have taken to liking my Moulton more and more lately. Great to have dilemmas, eh? 

[Hamish]

I think the Ogre looks great, but if you know you are going to use a Rohloff then the Thorn system is the best.  I have used sliders, slot and the Thorn EBB.  The latter is the best for me in most ways.  I think the slot works well but it is a faff. Chain tugs get annoying and I think it works best with the nutted version of the hub which I don't have. 

All this being said, I think the Ogre is a great bike and there is little to rival it.  The Nomad beats the Troll in the 26"  powered rough road tourer world..... but for bigger wheels?.... hmmmmmm...  I too want a 29er proper off road tourer with lots of mounts! Cass Gilbert is a great example for the approach http://www.whileoutriding.com/blog

[Relayer]

Thorn seem to have backed out of the exclusively MTB market, the Enduro, Catalyst and Sterling are discontinued. Possibly due to market saturation by a rash of booteek steel hardtails. A steel Rohloff driven 29er, designed for trails and day long XC, with an EBB and the kind of detailling that Thorn do as standard is the kind of offer just not currently available, I think.

I seem to remember a few years ago Thorn selling a 29er prototype on eBay stating they weren't taking the concept further at that time, so if they were to reconsider they wouldn't have to start from scratch.

However, I think you've summed up the situation almost perfectly there jimmer; and since the Nomad-X has also been recently discontinued I wonder if they will ever venture into the MTB market again.

I for one would probably have bought a Nomad-X series if it had rigid steel forks with disc brake mounts, and a 29er version of that would probably suit a lot of taller folks.   

Jim

[Andre Jute]

I have a 29er -- my Utopia Kranich was literally designed from the ground up around Schwalbe's 60mm Big Apples -- with closed twin slots on each side to take the Rohloff-designed sliding axle plates, and I also have several bikes with Shimano hub gears where the hub slides in an open-ended rear-facing slot like the Ogre's, steadied with a tug nut. I'd rather have the Rohloff sliding axle plate any day of the week for ease of setup. You can see the Rohloff guide slots and axle plate in a large photo at p8 of this document: http://coolmainpress.com/AndreJute'sUtopiaKranich.pdf

Removing the wheel has been mentioned several times in this thread. The easiest wheel removal is with the Rohloff-designed sliding axle plate, where the sliding plate holds the axle (and also handles torque reaction, and the whole wheel drops instantly out of the axle plate the moment you release the QR.

I must tell you that I'd far rather have Bernd Rohloff's zero maintenance sliding plate than an easily damaged or even ruined aluminum EBB which requires a special tool. (It's the one point of design on which I just cannot follow Andy Blance's otherwise admirable logic.)