Factory lube/chaincase experiment (X8 chain, Chainglider, Surly SS & Rohloff)

[il padrone]

OK, thanks for the advice. I have refitted the Chainglider and it seemed to be a bit better. Took it for a ride around the block and the drag is much less. I have been playing around with the rear section, clicking it in and out along the 'teeth' on the front section. I can see that small adjustments can make a large difference in the amount of drag.

I will give it a run riding to work this week and see how  it affects my commute ride. Hopefully things will pan out well, as I really do want to be able to preserve the life of my drivetrain.

The drivetrain is a 42 x 17 by the way, using a Surly SS chainring.

[Andre Jute]

Is your Chainglider silent now? A good test is riding on the painted line on smooth tarmac on an otherwise deserted road. My first Chainglider, by this test, on almost-slicks was silent, definitely the optimum installation for me. I've noticed that the latest design of Chainglider (without the separate over-clip at the front of the chainring) is a bit noisier, perhaps because not so tightly held together, than the second series (the first Rohloff-specific one).*

One more thing. You should inspect the entire length of your Chainglider installation carefully to see that it does not touch the frame anywhere. There was a post on this forum a while ago about someone who had to notch a Chainglider to make it fit a particular model of Thorn; if it was a general problem, we would have heard more about it. Still, Sod's Law determines that the problem will affect only high-mileage cyclists, who need the Chainglider more... It strikes me that if the Chainglider is bent even slightly around the seat stay, it is possible that the chain will drag inside it.

* Why, oh why, is it that German gear is so often perfectly designed for Version 1 and V1.5, and then the "new, improved" V2 goes all wrong, and V3 through V5 look and work like something a Chinese poodle choked up?

[John Saxby]

* Why, oh why, is it that German gear is so often perfectly designed for Version 1 and V1.5, and then the "new, improved" V2 goes all wrong, and V3 through V5 look and work like something a Chinese poodle choked up?

Murphy's Law at work this time, Andre, Corollary 47, which deals with (over-)engineering, specifically Sections b) through h), which are written entirely in Deutsch...

Glad to hear you're making progress, Pete.

[julk]

One more thing. You should inspect the entire length of your Chainglider installation carefully to see that it does not touch the frame anywhere. There was a post on this forum a while ago about someone who had to notch a Chainglider to make it fit a particular model of Thorn; if it was a general problem, we would have heard more about it. Still, Sod's Law determines that the problem will affect only high-mileage cyclists, who need the Chainglider more... It strikes me that if the Chainglider is bent even slightly around the seat stay, it is possible that the chain will drag inside it.

Andre that was me.

My expr has inward sloping seatstays which pushed the unmodified Chainglider off vertical.
I had to be bold with a hacksaw and surform and then some black tape to cover the small hole which resulted (in the Chainglider not the expr!), but the result is that the chainglider fitted properly and works a treat.
Between the Rohloff and the Chainglider I have almost forgotten what bicycle maintenance is…
Julian.

[David Simpson]

One more thing. You should inspect the entire length of your Chainglider installation carefully to see that it does not touch the frame anywhere. There was a post on this forum a while ago about someone who had to notch a Chainglider to make it fit a particular model of Thorn; if it was a general problem, we would have heard more about it. Still, Sod's Law determines that the problem will affect only high-mileage cyclists, who need the Chainglider more... It strikes me that if the Chainglider is bent even slightly around the seat stay, it is possible that the chain will drag inside it.

Andre that was me.

That was me too. However, in hindsight, I'm not sure that I needed to notch the Chainglider.

When I originally installed it on my Nomad, I found that it was pushing the chain towards the centre of the bike because there wasn't enough room between the chain and the seat stay. So I cut out a bit of the Chainglider right at the seat stay. As a result, the Chainglider was very quiet, but not silent. A year later, I had taken off the Chainglider to check the chain. When replaced the Chainglider, it was noticeably quieter, almost silent. I don't remember for sure, but it seems that my curved notch in the Chainglider no longer perfectly aligned with the seat stay. So perhaps, I didn't need the notch in the first place.

I have the Chainglider off right now, because I needed to replace the chain, and our weather has been so perfect (less than 5 days of light rain in the past 3 months) that I haven't put it back on.

I have learned that adjusting the Chainglider to minimize the noise is a bit of a black art. There are so many ways to adjust it. But if you can find that sweet spot, it should be almost silent.

- Dave

[geocycle]

Me as well on the RST. had no problems on the RT but the tighter frame on the sports tour wouldn't have it. The glider needs whittling but I was also not happy with the surly chain ring as I couldn't get it installed without a tight spot. So I've been glider less for about 6 months 

[Andre Jute]

Thank you for the reminders, gentlemen. Three cyclists (perhaps even more) who had to make adjustments either speaks to our adaptability or to the fact that Hebie isn't quite finished developing the Chainglider. Maybe, at the next iteration, they'll catch up with 36-tooth chain-ringers as well.

[il padrone]

Is your Chainglider silent now?

I rode it to work, and it was a beast on the first steep pinch (10%) out of home. I was forced down a gear to get up it. Riding home I got sick of it and was about to pull it off, but I fiddled with the rear section on the notches - tried pulling it out one (worse), back (meh!) then in one. Suddenly it was a good bit freer. I rode on home and it felt like normal (almost).

I shall persevere

One more thing. You should inspect the entire length of your Chainglider installation carefully to see that it does not touch the frame anywhere. There was a post on this forum a while ago about someone who had to notch a Chainglider to make it fit a particular model of Thorn; if it was a general problem, we would have heard more about it. Still, Sod's Law determines that the problem will affect only high-mileage cyclists, who need the Chainglider more... It strikes me that if the Chainglider is bent even slightly around the seat stay, it is possible that the chain will drag inside it.

* Why, oh why, is it that German gear is so often perfectly designed for Version 1 and V1.5, and then the "new, improved" V2 goes all wrong, and V3 through V5 look and work like something a Chinese poodle choked up?

Yes, I was a little bit concerned about the possible effect of the right-side rack mounting bolt protruding against it. It does not seem to push it hard, but is a dick of a thing when removing the rear cover as it hooks an edge on the outside of the rear cover piece. I may have to shorten that bolt-end.

[il padrone]

One question. Such a small movement of the rear Chainglider section made such a difference to drag. How do you go when you need to adjust chain tension? With the EBB this will alter the drivetrain length so the Chainglider will need to be lengthened to avoid drag..... yes??

Is this a problem at all?

[geocycle]

One question. Such a small movement of the rear Chainglider section made such a difference to drag. How do you go when you need to adjust chain tension? With the EBB this will alter the drivetrain length so the Chainglider will need to be lengthened to avoid drag..... yes??

Is this a problem at all?

In theory yes you are right. In practice the glider greatly reduces the wear of the chain and therefore, the number of adjustments needed.  It's a good product, probably the best available, but not quite perfect yet!

[il padrone]

The rack-mount bolt actually does not touch the Chainglider when fitted. It's just an obstruction when removing the rear cover. And a little bit of chain-lube between the Chainglider and the chain-ring, as well as in the hole at the top, and she's positively spinning. All looking much better 

[martinf]

The chaingliders are still working smoothly on the 3 bikes I fitted them to:

1 - Raven tour with Rohloff, not yet had very much use due to work commitments.

2 - Raven tour with Nexus 8 Premium, regular utility use, but I've not had this bike very long.

Both the Ravens have "optimal" chainglider setups with Surly chainrings and 3/32" chains.

3 - Old 650B wheel size bike with Sturmey Archer 5-speed. This is the uitility bike that the Raven tour with Nexus was intended to replace. The old bike has actually seen more use than the Thorns recently, as I have been using it for survey work on a contract not far from my home (fewer qualms about leaving an old bike locked up). The Chainglider was particularly useful, as the survey was in the coastal sand dunes, in wet weather a lot of sand built up on the outside but so far the chain has continued running smoothly.

The chainglider setup on this bike is non-optimal, fairly thick 1/8"  TA chainring and 1/8" chain and rear sprocket. It made a rubbing sound for the first few hundred kms, but didn't seem to add significant friction. Now I don't notice any noise or rubbing.

The chainglider has been on this bike for a tad over 3 years, I had the chainglider off once (in October 2012) to change the chain because I started the experiment with a nearly worn out chain, so I put a slightly less worn chain on. Since then I have peeked inside the Chainglider a couple of times, but not done any drive train maintenance. I'll probably overhaul the transmission this autumn, in case any salt water has got in during the coastal survey work.

[Andre Jute]

Yes, that's my experience too: once you have the Chainglider set up, you don't touch it again for a long time, and you don't have to service the chain inside; my last chain went 3562km on factory lube alone without any service whatsever, and the experiment was aborted at that point for entirely extraneous reasons.

Welcome to the Clean Club, Il Padrone. Glad to hear you managed to adjust your Chainglider so it works smoothly.

[David Simpson]

Just be aware of the difference between "maintenance-free" and "requires some maintenance, and it is easy to forget to do it".

I have had a Chainglider on my Nomad since I got the Nomad just over 2 years ago. Last November, during my ride home from work, I was accelerating from a stop sign when my pedals started to spin freely. It was like my transmission was in neutral. I moved the shifter through all the gears, and nothing worked. At first I thought that my shift cables had broken, but they looked fine. I feared the worst: I would need to disassemble my rear wheel and send the Rohloff back to Germany for warranty work.

I walked home that day, in a bad mood, and I didn't look at the bike until after supper. With my hand, I rotated the cranks, and noticed that the rear sprocket was not turning. Because of the Chainglider, I could only see a few teeth of the sprocket, and hadn't noticed that the sprocket was not turning when I was on the ride. Hmmmm... sprocket not turning? There could only be one cause of that.

Sure enough, the problem was merely that the chain had come off the sprocket. If I didn't have the Chainglider, I would have seen the problem (and fixed it) in an instant while on my ride.

The reason why the chain had come off was that it was very slack, almost touching the chainstay. Again, I didn't notice the condition of the chain because of the Chainglider.

Moral of the story: While the Chainglider does reduce the need for chain maintenance, it also makes it harder to keep an eye on the chain to see if it needs maintenance.

Perhaps we need a transparent Chainglider.

- Dave

[Andre Jute]

Perhaps we need a transparent Chainglider.

Showoff!