My New Raven Tour

[goosander]

Does anyone know what the difference is between the salmon koolstops and the other more available colours such as red & black?  Are the red or black pads any good?

[stutho]

The Salmon is the only pad designed for wet weather.  I heard that the magic ingredient is ferric oxide.  I am not sure if this is true or not but I do know for certain that the things don't half stop my bike well, both in the dry and the wet.  I have not tried any other colour however on other forums it has being claimed that the black stops even quicker than the salmon in dry conditions.

More info here

[simonsydney]

I use the dual compound, salmon/black, so best of both worlds !

[PH]

quote:Originally posted by stutho

RE: the plow tip  - one of Kool-Stops not so clever inventions!  The idea is that the raised rear tip will automatically sets the tow in. It doesn’t work very well (for me at least).

If you are using cartridge pad holders I would start by just trying the new pads without repositioning.

Some people file / sand off the tip before fitting Kool-Stops and then toe in as normal.  I have try this in the past (I have also fitted the pad without sanding).  I don’t think there is any right answer both ways can be made to work.  However the good new is that once you have got the pad set up right (and it does need some form of toe in) it is probably the best brake pad you can buy.

PH What are your thoughts?

The V brakes on my Raven ain't fussy[]
I haven't altered the position of the holders since I fitted them.  Slight toe in I think, but I expect that soon wears away.  One good thing about the pads being thin is that they don’t need adjusting as they wear, in the way thicker pads do.
My other tourer with Tektro cantis and the same pads and holders is a different story.  They can be made to work as well as the Vs, but only with frequent adjustment and they produce an ear splitting sequel if they’re not quiet right.

[stutho]

Hi PH - Remind me, do you use ceramic rims?

[strat]

To Geocycle, a few pages back you mention that you have Ergon grips fitted. Did you have to cut the right hand one down to accomodate the gearshift?  SJS cycles did mention some time ago that Ergon were producing  a set of grips specifically for twist grip shifters, but the catalogue does not mention them.

[goosander]

I also have ergon grips but I don't think mine are Rohloff specific.  SJS fitted a 'spacer grip' on the left side (where the the shifter would be on the the right side) to even things out.

In my view, given the shape of the grips, I don't think you would want to have the right hand side cut down by much as it would affect comfort especially as the triangular shape of the rohloff shifter grip isn't ideal for resting your hand on when not changing gear.  I have found that unlike SRAM gripshifts where you can ride with your hand on the shifter at all times, you actually need to move you hand slightly to change gear on the rohloff.

[strat]

Thanks for that Goosander. Do you find them more comfortable than normal grips? I think that for the grips without the little spikey bar ends,  you can fit your own bar ends. Is this right  I am thinking of putting Cane Creek bar ends on. As I have arthritis in my wrists and hands, the more comfort the better!

[julk]

Strat,
Lots of info for you re ergon grips but here are some measurements to consider.

Thorn recommend a grip size of 112mm next to the rohloff shifter. I use an ergon performance grip cut down to 110mm with a hot blade. I find this adequate with a hand width across my life line of 96/98mm (larger right hand). I really like the grips for comfort/support. I have to slide my hand across to change gear. I tried the thorn cork grips and could not get used to the slight centre bulge/contouring  being a flat grip man.

If you are using thorn comfort type bars then you need to note the following measurements.
The rohloff shifter measures 62mm, the xtr brake lever clamp measures 15mm - so you need almost 190mm (110+62+15) of straight end to your handlebar to fit these butting up to one another. All thorn comfort bars have 190 except the standard carbon comfort which only has 180mm.

My narrowest bar ends clamps use 15mm. So these have to be mounted inboard round the bends - I found this position gave little control except on smooth road surfaces. I tried ergon R2 grips with short bar ends built in, sourced the rohloff model at Chain Reaction Cycles - the right grip is 100m which is a bit short leaving my hand touching the rohloff shifter without a filler bit of grip in between. I was not as impressed with the bar ends as I had hoped, they are really quite small.

That leaves straight bars for having outboard bar end, cut down grip 110mm, rohloff shifter and brake lever mounted in a straight line and touching.

I really like the position the comfort bars give. I get none of the shoulder/back discomfort which straight bars give me. I hope Thorn bring out a comfort bar with 210mm straight on the ends to allow us to have a rohloff and normal bar ends on the outside.

[PH]

quote:Originally posted by stutho

Hi PH - Remind me, do you use ceramic rims?

Nope, having pranged as many rims as I've worn out I was reluctant to spend that sort of money.  I've got the original CR18 on the front and a replacment Mavic 7?? on the back.

[goosander]

quote:Originally posted by strat

Thanks for that Goosander. Do you find them more comfortable than normal grips? I think that for the grips without the little spikey bar ends,  you can fit your own bar ends. Is this right  I am thinking of putting Cane Creek bar ends on. As I have arthritis in my wrists and hands, the more comfort the better!

Yes I find them very comfortable, because your weight is spread accross the whole area of your palm you don't get the sore spot you sometime get with standard grips.  I assume that you could fit standard bar ends if you have enough room on the bars to accomodate them.

In the past I haven't been a big fan of bar ends, but decided to try the the Ergon grips with the integrated bar ends (I got the larger R type) and have been pleasantly surprised, I do seem to use them and they are also confortable to hold.  I haven't tried the Crane Creek bar ends but judging from pictures of them, they seem to make the bars very wide - I presume that this is because they plug in to the ends of the bars, rather than clamp the bars themselves?

[goosander]

quote:Originally posted by julk
I really like the position the comfort bars give. I get none of the shoulder/back discomfort which straight bars give me. I hope Thorn bring out a comfort bar with 210mm straight on the ends to allow us to have a rohloff and normal bar ends on the outside.

Would outboard bar ends work with a comfort bar?  

Surely the swept back bars would leave the bar ends angled outwards which I can't imagine being good for either comfort or grip, not to mention looking a bit odd.

[kwkirby01]

quote:Originally posted by goosander
I haven't tried the Crane Creek bar ends but judging from pictures of them, they seem to make the bars very wide - I presume that this is because they plug in to the ends of the bars, rather than clamp the bars themselves?

No, they clamp to end of the bars. From memory, they use around 15mm of bar and extend a further 15mm (i.e. they add 30mm more than regular bar ends).

I use CaneCreek bar ends, Ergon grips and inboard bar ends (really big ones). However, to accommodate this I've moved the Rohloff shifter to the steerer (fitted just beneath the stem using a modified Thorn accessory bar).

I did this because I wanted relatively narrow bars and lots of hand positions. As others have already said, cutting the Ergon grip too short is uncomfortable (your hand ends up on the shifter) and leaving it long results in having a spacer (or just space) on the opposite side and wide bars.

My approach gives a pleasingly symmetrical and comfortable bar which is not too wide. It's a compromise, of course. The downside being that the shifter is not quite so accessible. I was worried about this at first, but in practice it really isn't a problem.

Kevin

[Swislon]

Goosander/Kevin, do you have any photos of your set up ? I'm finding my bars a little wide with Ergon grips and Cane Creek bar ends. The Ergon integrated look a neat option are these what you have goosander ? http://www.ergon-bike.com/en/grips/r2.html I'm also thinking of cutting the bar a little at a time until I get a better feel for the width.

[goosander]

Swilson, here are some photo's of my Ergon grips and also some of the bike

http://www.goosander.eclipse.co.uk/ergon/
http://www.goosander.eclipse.co.uk/raven/

As you can see from the photos I have straight bars which I think are 58cm wide, they are fine for me when I have my hands on the grips but I wouldn't mind them being a little narrower when I am on the bar ends.  If I can be bothered, I might take 1cm off each side.