Work Bike

[leftie]

Hi all,

I'd like some opinions on either a Nomad or New Model Raven Tour as an urban works bike. I do Pest Control for a living and, for my sins, yomp around Central London on foot with a back pack weighing around 10Kg inclusive of backpack. I've noticed the Police and Ambulance service use pannier equipped around Town and am wondering whether a bicycle will be nicer to my 42 year old knees than the daily yomp.

I imagine at most I'd be increasing the load to 30Kg with panniers at the front and back.

Would either the Nomad or Raven Tour be good for this or would they be an expensive overkill?

[Danneaux]

Hi Leftie!

Welcome to the Thorn Cycling Forums!

Having owned a Sherpa Mk2 (frame twin to the Raven Tour) and now a Nomad Mk2, I think the Nomad might be overkill for your needs. It is a first-class, top-notch Expedition Touring Bike capable of carrying enormous loads...but because of that, it is not as much fun to ride for general, all-'round and unladen/sporting use as a bike with a bit lower cargo capacity -- though I do ride mine all the time and enjoy it greatly in any use; it is just what I wanted and very much needed. The main difference is the frame's stiffness, which makes it more dependent on wider, fatter tires to gain back some of the comfort of a more resilient frame when riding unladen or with smaller loads.

I do think the Rohloff drivetrain would be ideal for an urban works bike, especially given the lower maintenance requirements of the Rohloff hub.

I think of the two, I'd go for the Raven Tour to keep a livelier, in-town ride. While 10kg in a backpack is a lot, 30kg in F/R panniers isn't that much for a RavenTour (or the new ThornRaven, that replaces both the Raven Tour and Raven Sport Tour). If you consistently carried that much or more, then I would definitely suggest the Nomad, as the (New) Thorn Raven's maximum capacities range from 33-40kg depending on frame size (tube diameters are proportional to frame size).

Have you given thought to a small cargo trailer, perhaps something along the lines of a BOB with a large platform that could take your present pack and perhaps additional supplies as needed? Either bike would tow the trailer nicely, carry the load without a complaint, yet be light(er) and sprightly when the trailer was left behind.

In any case, I assume the bike will be parked outside while you're fumigating indoors. With that in mind, I would give considerable thought to good security. Hub security (in the form of Pitlocks or Atomic22 security skewers), a good U-lock and heavy chain, and perhaps a ring-lock wouldn't be amiss in a city-core setting like Central London. The locale -- and leaving the bike outside -- is what makes me wonder if  either of the Thorns might be unduly theft-attractive for your needs. I think if I went for a Rohloff Thorn in that setting, I'd try to keep the build pretty basic and go for the stealth black and let dirt accumulate a bit to make it less flashy to thieves' eyes.

I hope this helps. Others will surely be along shortly with good suggestions of their own. That's one of the beauties of this Forum; you'll get a crowd-sourced answer to nearly any question!

Best,

Dan.

[leftie]

Hi thanks for the reply. The Nomad on reflection would be real overkill, I can't imagine going beyond 30kg ever, so Thorn Raven it is.

Yes security would be a big issue. I'd always bring bike insite where possible, if outside then top of the range D locks would be used.

Am I right that with panniers, some can nearly double as back packs, If so I could just take off what I need for each job. That may or may not be more practical than a trailer.

A couple more questions.

Security. Would panniers make the bike less attractive to thieves (more bulky etc)? Does SJS offer a service where any logo such as Rohloff, Thorn etc is obscured or removed?

Oh, and a small point given my weight requirements 30kg max would a Thorn Raven be an overkill compared to say the Hybrid type bikes the police and ambulance guys ride, or the bikes you see in London towing Darwin's Deli trailers from customer to customer?

[Danneaux]

Am I right that with panniers, some can nearly double as back packs, If so I could just take off what I need for each job. That may or may not be more practical than a trailer.

Hi Leftie! Yes, indeed. For example, Ortlieb make a "backpack adapter" so a standard Ortlieb pannier bag (either roll-top or cap-top) can be clipped to it and worn. See: http://www.ortlieb.co.uk/bike/bike-accessories/rucsac-adapter.html

A couple more questions. Security. Would panniers make the bike less attractive to thieves (more bulky etc)?

Sadly, I think...not. Thieves might well wish to nick the bike *and* the panniers or contents therein.

Does SJS offer a service where any logo such as Rohloff, Thorn etc is obscured or removed?

At one time, you could get a "stealth" (no logo) paint job on a Thorn bike, but not currently, to my knowledge. You could, however, go with a color like stealth matte black and then use electrical tape over the logos. I'm afraid to those in the know, the bike will still be identifiable. Same with the hub. My Rohloff seems to attract more attention than the rest of the bike. The derailleur crowd notices "something" is missing, and the single-speed/fixed-gear crowd sees something is going on at the rear hub that is "different". All want to see, and are drawn closer because of it.

given my weight requirements 30kg max would a Thorn Raven be an overkill compared to say the Hybrid type bikes the police and ambulance guys ride, or the bikes you see in London towing Darwin's Deli trailers from customer to customer?

Well...I suppose the case can always be made, but the biggest argument against using a nice bike like a Rohloff-equipped Thorn in an inner city setting is the potential for theft. Yes, top-range D-locks would be a good idea, and perhaps Pitlocks or Atomic-22 locking skewers to keep the Rohloff hub with the bike. <-- A friend on the Continent just lost his when the spokes were cut out of the wheel, the rim and tire still held securely to the frame by his ring-lock. Sad. Yes, bringing the bike inside the worksite would cut the risk hugely, I'd think.

Others will have thoughts as well, so give it a day or two for everyone to weigh in.

Best,

Dan.

[geocycle]

Interesting post.  I agree with Dan that the raven tour would be ideal for the job.  It would do everything a hybrid would but you would be paying for longevity, low maintenance and carrying capacity.  If you wanted a trailer then the balance might shift toward a cheaper bike.  A trailer would be good, perhaps better for dumping all your equipment in, but less manoeuvrable and easy to park.  For panniers check out the ortlieb range that double as rucksacks or just buy simple panniers and lift your bags out of them.  You can secure panniers to a rack.

I have my rohloff labels covered in black tape.  I'd recommend security skewers for your wheels and an Abus granit d lock. The skewers really increase your options for locking.

[Peddrov]

Seeing as you would be cycling around London, I would strongly suggest going with Derailleurs instead of a Rohloff, that is the Sherpa instead of the Raven (they are pretty much the same bike)

1. It'll save you around £800.
2. You don't need the reliability and bomb-proofness of the Rohloff: London isn't exactly remote and you'll never be far from a bike shop.
3. It would be less attractive to thieves, which is a massive problem in London.

The one argument I have for a Rohloff hub in the city is the convenience of shifting into lower gears while waiting at traffic lights.

If you really need it exclusively for work in London, you might even consider going single speed and save some more cash & weight. In my experience London is fairly flat (although that might be different in some areas). I'm sure you could ask Thorn to build you a single-speed bike with the Raven frame.

[leftie]

Thanks for all the informative replies so far.

The bike would be work/commute. I live in Wood Green, North London one of the furthest sites from where I live is 11 miles away and one of the closest is 4 miles away. It's downhill all the way to Central London where my work is and up hill all the way back to Wood Green.

[rualexander]

Seeing as you would be cycling around London, I would strongly suggest going with Derailleurs instead of a Rohloff, that is the Sherpa instead of the Raven (they are pretty much the same bike)

1. It'll save you around £800.
2. You don't need the reliability and bomb-proofness of the Rohloff: London isn't exactly remote and you'll never be far from a bike shop.
3. It would be less attractive to thieves, which is a massive problem in London.

The one argument I have for a Rohloff hub in the city is the convenience of shifting into lower gears while waiting at traffic lights.

If you really need it exclusively for work in London, you might even consider going single speed and save some more cash & weight. In my experience London is fairly flat (although that might be different in some areas). I'm sure you could ask Thorn to build you a single-speed bike with the Raven frame.

Or maybe a Raven with an Alfine 8 speed hub or Nuvinci hub instead of a Rohloff.

[brummie]

The Nomad X series could be considered too, if a standard Nomad is considered overkill. Maybe it is worth considering if / what other use you may put the bike to outside of work?

[leftie]

Well out of work would be shopping etc.

I do have a dream of heading off to Beautiful Rwanda again, this time with bike. 

[ianshearin]

Hi Leftie, welcome to the forums...

To be honest it sounds like security is a main concern, London does have its problems....

There is an argument to maybe consider other options that wont hurt your bank balance and be too traumatic if you lose the bike...

1. Buy second hand
2. Forget those lovely Thorns (sorry sjs) and buy an inexpensive bike from a local bike shop

When you decide to head off to Rwanda, then get your Thorn.....

All views are not my own, I am being controlled by Red Wine and therefore not responsible.....

[leftie]

Whilst my head says cheaper bike, my heart says thorn.

BTW compared to walking with 10kg back pack all day, is cycling with around 30kg more knee friendly?

[ianshearin]

As an avid golfer who carries my golf bags, I can tell you that the 10kg in a backpack is not a good idea for long periods.
After some advice from a Paediatrist I now use a trolley.

I have found my knees to be fine after cycling but a little sore after Golf, so my little straw poll suggests cyling with 30kg is much more friendlier than walking with 30kg.

Never follow your Head! Heart everytime!

[Danneaux]

BTW compared to walking with 10kg back pack all day, is cycling with around 30kg more knee friendly?

Oh goodness, yes! Knees aren't "geared", bikes are. 

Whilst my head says cheaper bike, my heart says thorn.

To be happy, go with your heart, Leftie.

Best,

Dan.

[leftie]

Thanks again for all the responses.

I think I can narrow down to some firm requirements.

1) Whilst I'm not against carts, the bike must be able to handle a pannier load of 25Kg +/- on a daily basis.
2) Not including commute I'd be doing 5-10 miles in total sometimes less daily. The final home bound commute is 5 miles up hill. My furthest would be 10 miles away. So my bike would have to be comfy, handle the load either on panniers or trolley, with gears to deal to cover all gradients and weights.
3) Long term reliability and low cost of ownership. I don't want a bike that wimps out after 2 years of use.