Why front panniers?

[Danneaux]

Beautiful country there, Pete.

Do the doctors have a timeline for your recovery from the broken collarbone? Is the pain beginning to subside? Did they just leave it be or suggest a sling, as seems to be the usual practice here'bouts now'days?

I've been caught out by unforeseen road conditions from time to time myself. I think one of my hardest falls took place at jogging speed when I hit some spilled sand with the front tire, slid, then the tire caught and I was promptly high-sided off the bike and down an incline. I never knew what hit me and lay there breathless and stunned till I could get my wits together. I was unhurt except for the shock of it all, but I'm still amazed at the speed with which things went bad while "just riding along". Man!

Annnnd a gentle reminder (jags) that spirited -- even passionate -- discussion of issues is always welcome, but should not spill over to personal aspersions that can lead to unplesantries and bad feelings.

Best,

Dan.

[il padrone]

Hi Dan

Six weeks in a sling. It's been five weeks now so things are improving. The severe pain was only for about three weeks, when I was able to go through the day without pain-killers. The broken rib was more painful really, sleeping and getting out of bed was tricky. The collar-bone doesn't hurt too much now, as long as I don't try to do too much with it, but the light pain is still there. I have been able to take the arm out of the sling at times for the past two weeks, but it eventually starts to hurt a good bit and I go back to the sling.

There was some concern early on that the X-ray seemed to indicate an overlapping break with 3cms of foreshortening, which could possibly require surgery, but a later X-ray showed that it was an oblique fracture (broken diagonally) that looked like an overlap.

It is the thrid time I have broken a collarbone - I am starting to feel some affinity for our local cycling hero - Cadel Evans 

[jags]

worry not Dan I'm totally in control  
il padrone i sure hope your over your broken collor bone believe me i know the pain only too well.
but look i know your a experience cyclist in all kinds of terrain but you will never convince me that front panniers makes for a stable bike.

if i upset you with my post i do apologise  but I'm sticking to my guns  
the only time I'll use front panniers is because I've no room left in my rear panniers
sorry buddy but there you have it.
cheers
jags.

[Danneaux]

It is the third time I have broken a collarbone...

Oh, noes!

Man! Here's hoping the third time is the charm to banish any more for a lifetime to come. Boy...!

All the best,

Dan. (...who is still shaking his head in dismay over *three* busted collarbones and thinking, "That poor guy!")

[jags]

oh man just read that 3 times i think i would be hanging up the wheels.

[il padrone]

You don't know the half of it - really!!

But give up riding the bike?? Kinda like giving up breathing 

[Danneaux]

You don't know the half of it - really!!

^ Good writers call this "foreshadowing". Marketers call it the "hook". It works either way. 

I sense a Good (if horrible for you) Story behind all this, and am all ears if you'd like to Share, Pete.

All the best,

Dan. (...who is cringing in anticipation  )

[il padrone]

Oh, all right  

Note: not one of the following events involved a contact with any motor vehicle.

2001 - MTB ride descending a good track.... except for the water-bars that Parks Victoria had added. OTB and faceplant
Result: broken wrist (intra-articular) - the only injury that is still giving me problems, yet to resolve

2005 - MTB Orienteering event. Rode down a short dip through some mud. Front wheel slid sideways on greasy solid clay base. I crashed to earth on dry, hard clay
Result: Broken NOF (hip), broken collar-bone.

2008 (my annus horribilis) - (1) Riding the road bike home on residential streets, just washed with light rain. Braked on slight descent for a right turn, the rear wheel slid. I (stupidly) kept braking, the front wheel slid. I practiced braking with my elbow-tip.   While waiting at the roadside I noticed something - the road surface here was covered with a brown sheen - a slight muddy wash from trucks carting clay soil out of a nearby construction project  
Result: broken olecranon (elbow tip). I never even knew it had a special name  
(2) Riding on the road bike on a country road tour (tarmac). When trying to move into single file for an overtaking car, I clipped my front wheel against the next rider's rear pannier. Down I went! Lesson to be learned - do not put yourself at risk to convenience an overtaking motorist.
Result: broken collarbone (this one healed up very quickly, just broken at the tip)

2010 - touring the outback, on the Finke Rd, north of Oodnadatta. My cycling partner rode into sand and stopped. I veered to pass, stopped in the same deep sand. Stationary, but clipped in and tipping the wrong way, I reached out to support myself off his rear load. With 55kgs on the bike, it was not going to stay up. Down I crashed and 'klunk' went my shoulder.
Result: dislocated shoulder.

Then  there's 2013  

Not a good record there I know. Some things to note however:
* not one involved a motor vehicle as I said
* several were riding off sealed roads and on MTBs
* high speed was never a factor - I never had anything more than some superficial grazing - not the archetypal road rash. Well, the 2001 OTB may have been a result of "too fast for the conditions" (that had changed as I knew the track fairly well).
* stationary falls can be just as bad for you as a fall at 30kmh.
* I do really enjoy my cycling, enjoy getting off onto the little unsealed backroads and love climbing and descending in the mountains. Most of these falls did not occur on the typical mountain bush road descent.

[Danneaux]

My goodness, Pete!

Well, now you've gotten your lifetime's allotment of bike injuries out of the way in only a dozen years, the rest of your cycling life will be smooth sailing and trouble-free (Hopefully! Fingers crossed!)

Looking at your account, there seems to be no universal single factor, but surface hazards/irregularities seem to play a pretty fair part in several of the problems you've encountered. It can be so easy to get caught out by changes in road surface, expecially if the light changes (shadows, or High Noon, when there *aren't* shadows to highlight washboard and such). On pavement, contamination with greasy clay, sand, fine loam can also really take one by surprise. I think it is the sudden change in friction coefficient that makes lotsathingshappenatonce! and then suddenly! one finds the're looking at the sky from a whole new perspective.

Some things to note however:
* not one involved a motor vehicle as I said

Thank goodness for that!

* several were riding off sealed roads and on MTBs

Which goes to show such things can happen anywhere.

* high speed was never a factor

Pete, I've analyzed your data carefully and have concluded you need to go faster to stay out of trouble!  

* stationary falls can be just as bad for you as a fall at 30kmh.

No truer words! I managed an "off" on a fast descent through Oregon's Coast Range at 48mph when my wheels hit moss while leaned far over for a fast corner. Fortunately, it was raining heavily at the time, and I ended up just sliding to a stop on my bottom....except for the road-slime, not a single mark or bruise on me. There's been some "heavy" crashes at slow speed, though, that just rattled my teeth!

* I do really enjoy my cycling, enjoy getting off onto the little unsealed backroads and love climbing and descending in the mountains.

I know you do, Pete, and it shows in your accounts and photos. I'm so glad you're able to bet out and about on the bike still, and wish you all the best in avoiding any such unfortunate problems in the future -- having used your quota at once, you're home free from now on!

Thanks for the background. I just wish it hadn't all happened to you!

Best wishes for fast healing,

Dan.

[il padrone]

Actually on looking back at these incidents there are a couple of other intriguing things:

* two on the MTB, two on the road bike, two on the touring bike   Equality of disciplines  
* almost all of them have been associated with some form of road surface variation or problem
* the one that didn't was my own stupid error in close maneuvering
* almost none of them involved front panniers
* the one that did (2010) occurred at zero speed and the presence of front bags ?? I really think the fact that we had not lowered our tyre pressure was a major factor, plus I put my arm out.

I have fallen off a good number of times with no injuries:
1. On MTB rides when the landings are usually softer and speeds are not high
2. On touring when fully-loaded and riding on sandy roads. The landings are softer, but also another aspect, the front and rear panniers shield you often. In slow speed sandy track falls (they simply do happen) you will often (should) keep the hands steering the bike and as you get stuck and topple at quite slow speed, the front and rear bags hit the sand first. You roll over with the bike and generally get no  more than a dusting of sand.

Here's a classic shot of my son, on Kangaroo Island's sandy roads. I was right behind him and just avoided hitting him when he dug into deep sand and tumbled in front of me. We both just stepped off the bikes as they stalled  

[Danneaux]

Pete,

Man, you've got some colorful crash photos! Carnage second to none! You had some real presence of mind to dig out the camera and snap the shots that soon after having an "off".

This is a long shot (trying to be helpful), but I've been thinking about your bone-breaks: Have you ever been diagnosed as osteopenic? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osteopenia

I have osteopenia, and so do a surprising (to me) number of my cycling friends and acquaintances. According to my doctor, cycling is not considered sufficiently weight-bearing to help build and maintain the mineral density of bones and my many years of cycling extensively have made me more prone to fractures than I might have been otherwise(!). She says among her patients, she sees a high incidence of osteopenia in post-menopausal women and...in her male patients who are avid cyclists to the exclusion of other, weight-bearing exercise.

I entered "Cyclists Bone Denisity" into Google and the results spewed forth, including this one: http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/01/is-bicycling-bad-for-your-bones/

She prescribed calcium and Vitamin D3 supplements (Oregon's winters are notoriously cloudy and we don't get a lot of sun for much of the year). About a decade ago, I added 5mi/8km daily walks in addition to cycling so I'd have some regular weight-bearing exercise. This, along with the mineral and vitamin supplements seem to be improving the osteopenia, according to my DEXA bone-density test results. The news hasn't been so great for my friend, Michael, who just turned 60...and has lost nearly 2 inches in height after about 45 years of cycling-exclusive exercise. He's broken a number of bones in slow-speed crashes as well.

I realize this is a long way off-topic for front panniers (apologies), but I'm wondering if there might be a possible factor for you in the hope it might help prevent future breakages.

All the best,

Dan. (...who may start putting rocks in his pockets or wearing a backpack to make his walks more effective at building bone density)

[il padrone]

These days, with the nice compact Lumix, it travels often in my jersey pocket so I can just pull it out and shoot quickly to capture the moment. I take twice as many photos this way. The sudden spill, animals by the road, the special view of the momentary show of sunlight through clouds are all so much easier to capture.

Re. bone density issues. People have at times suggested this to me. I have mentioned it to my doctor, but he has not been too concerned. The comment after hearing the description of what happened has been "well you fell hard, onto a hard surface. Bones are likely to break". This recent fall was a hard impact, hard enough to knock me out for a couple of minutes despite wearing my helmet. I'm not really too concerned at present.


[edit] Note this as well:

Even more encouraging, most recreational cyclists probably don’t need to worry too much about their bones. “The studies to date have looked primarily at racers,” Smathers says. “That’s a very specialized demographic. These guys train for hours at a very high intensity. They sweat a lot. They never go for runs. They don’t usually do much weight-lifting,” to avoid adding bulk. “They’re strange.”

[JWestland]

Ouch :S

I only had one bad fall so far while commuting. And the only fall ever...but I am not exactly a risk taker on the bike and roads with 15-20 mph are rarely a risky area. No load involved either just sheer...well stupidity really. Or bad road design if you want, metal manhole covers aren't a good idea for (motor)cyclists no grip at all. Which I didn't realize coming from cycle country The Netherlands.

I slipped on a wet manhole cover taking a corner on a wet road at 18ish MPH on new kevlar tires. They were hard and not grippy at all. Result: An arm skid (the coat was fine, my arm wasn't a big graze), the roadster handlebars hit first, then the side of my head. I wasn't knocked out but...I just hit myself on the tooth that sticks out a bit forwards which chipped off and went through my front lip.

Result: A nice hole and 4 stitches. The numbing for the stitches hurt more than the actual gap 
And a permanent scar. Ah well.

Ow and a fall on the tiny patch of black ice while the rest of the promenade was gritted result a small scar on leg. Gotta love commuting! And the usual near misses where your backwheel skids on no idea what, dirt on the road, yellow lines...

Collar bones break quite easily I believe, colleague at work had his broken due a 5-a-side match. Drop bars don't help as the shoulder can hit first, wide MTB bars and roadster bars tend to hit first, then you.

[martinf]

Individual bike geometry -- particularly with regard to differences in trail -- can make a huge difference as to how "comfortable" a given bike feels with a load in one place or another.

On the Moulton TSR I had for a few years it handled much better with most of the weight in front panniers and only light stuff on the back. But the Moulton front rack is on the frame, not the forks. Same goes for the Brompton - much better with most of the weight in the front bag (done several thousand kms of touring with that).

With more conventional touring bikes, I prefer to spread my kit over 4 panniers if I am carrying a lot of stuff (it generally works out at about 40% front/60% rear). I definitely don't like having a heavy load on the back with nothing on the front, but have done tours with this setup in the past.

With a lighter load, two rear panniers alone work fine for me, but I am as happy with just two front panniers if the weight is within the recommended limit for the fork/rack.

An advantage of having weight on the front is that it reduces front wheel lift thus allowing lower gears on steep climbs.

[NZPeterG]

Well I cycle toured about the U.K for 8 to 10 weeks with Just front panniers on my Top End road bike! Back in late 1980's

It just handled so so good, light and fast  Why because my bike had a 50%front/50%rear once I was on and riding it.

Pete . .