Why front panniers?

[il padrone]

From a comment on another forum, I was inspired to define the main ride handling benefit of front bags. I have been witness to quite a good few falls where people were using rear panniers only.

not a big fan of front panniers who ever said that 4 panniers balances the bike needs there head examined  

If you plan on riding on gravel roads or other unsealed surfaces (rocky tracks, loose pea-gravel), through country with any steep descents, or carrying heavy loads including multi-days' food supplies; then low-mounted front panniers are highly recommended. They stabilise your steering, making it less twitchy - more predictable; and they act to keep your tyre on the road, rather then bouncing or sliding.

I've been witness to a number of nasty falls (with broken bones) when people have been riding on rough track descents, and all of them were not using front panniers. Others riding the same roads with four panniers were fine.

Come to think of it, my fall in early Feb that has left me with a broken collarbone was also a front tyre slide when I had just the rear bags  

Why it works?
1. A heavy load of gear on the rear rack acts like pendulum with your steering as the axis. Every pedal stroke pushes the pendulum and it swings to and fro. Your rear load acts via this to "steer" your bike. Not a huge problem in normal riding, where you just correct the steering to cope. Pedalling at higher speeds - not good. It can trigger a speed wobble. I have witnessed a very bad fall that occurred just this way.

2. Front wheel weight on the road is very important on loose surfaces. Heavy load on the rear with no weight on the front is not a huge issue most of the time. However on a gravel road descent (or even on wet tarmac) some speed, combined with a bit of a bump or rise, can leave your rear tyre sticking to the surface (good) while your front tyre lifts off or is un-weghted (not good). Combine this with some loose gravel, a bit of a rut-edge, or even a front wheel lift and steering correction, and very rapidly everything goes pear-shaped. I have also  witnessed a number of falls that occurred in this sort of manner.

I have actually done overnight tours with solely front panniers and a rack-top bag. The bike rode very well and I was able to stand up on the pedals for climbs, something that is often quite destabilising with just rear bags. On my fully-loaded bike with 25-30kgs of gear I will frequently (and happily) do standing climbing. This would be impossible with all that load on the rear rack

So basically the weight in your front pannier will keep the tyre firmly planted on the road, will help keep less weight on the rear (especially behind the rear axle or high-mounted), and as long as the front panniers are low-mounted, balanced and fairly central to the steering axis (for & aft and side to side) they will not mess with your steering too much.

[Danneaux]

A nice, instructive post, Pete, and your experience mirrors mine -- both firsthand and viewing others' struggles from afar as a rider, cycling instructor, and professional tour leader --  over the last 35 years. You've made the case "for" very well. Front bags made a hugely positive difference for me when I started using them when I first started touring; so much so, I can't imagine doing otherwise.

Like you, I will occasionally ride with front panniers only or front panniers and HB bag, but I don't go with rear bags alone. For the kinds of riding I do, I need a good amount of weight on the front for stability and the same reasons you describe.

Still, it seems there's no universal prescriptions in cycling, and some riders just don't feel comfortable with extra weight on the steering. Those I've asked explained that any extra steering effort more than offsets the handling benefits for them. People are individuals, and all have their preferences and foibles and likes and dislikes. I suspect the use of front panniers may be a bit like the Helmet Issue, with people agreeing to disagree and as much philosophy as science driving divergent viewpoints.

I'm so sorry to hear about your mishap and broken collarbone, Pete. I hope the pain will ease as mobility increases and you'll be fully mended and back to 100% soonest.

Best,

Dan.

[il padrone]

I would agree it is a bit of an individual thing, and many people are happy with just rear panniers. But many of these people may be tarmac riders. I would emphasise the real safety benefits of front panniers comes into play on gravel and dirt roads, especially on descents. Here I would have to say, if you do loaded touring off the tarmac with just rear panniers, you're asking for trouble.

Of course, it's not foolproof  

[Rockymountain]

That looks nasty.....but what exactly has happened? Is that 2 bikes or just one with a spare wheel. I'd love to know more about that photo.

Thanks

Fraser

[Matt2matt2002]

That looks nasty.....but what exactly has happened? Is that 2 bikes or just one with a spare wheel. I'd love to know more about that photo.

Thanks

Fraser

I think he has hit a uni cyclist.

[il padrone]

That looks nasty.....but what exactly has happened? Is that 2 bikes or just one with a spare wheel. I'd love to know more about that photo.

It was on the Finke Road, NT, Central Australia. Last September, riding towards the Old Andado Station (cattle homestead). It is my bike with the Extrawheel trailer. The road was quite a soft graded sandy surface and we had to choose the hardest sections to  ride. This section was a good deal firmer and I was moving at a fair clip, following a strange rut or groove, a bit like a tyre track but I think it may have been something dragged by a car. Anyway everything was OK, but then my front tyre clipped the edge of the rut, scraped and slid. Down I went!

Almost every pannier was flung off; the bike was wonderfully twisted up   I was entirely OK, just a very small scrape on one leg if I recall.

[JWestland]

I speak from experience carrying my wee one (well wee...20KG!) in a bike seat around on a cruddy Raleigh that 20KG at the back only does really change balance and steering of the bike 

So to me it only makes sense to balance the load...

[bobs]

I have to ask, whats in all those panniers?

Bob

[il padrone]

OK, you asked for it  .

This was on a four week expedition into the deserts of Central Australia, a place where travelling 100kms to get a beer is pretty much the norm. And that's on the main roads.

The List

Handlebar bag - The Desk

   documents
   travel & tourist info.
   camera
   mp3 player
   snacks
   spare gloves
   pen & notebook
   sunglasses


Front panniers - The Pantry

Left side - Day meals
   lunch & breakfast food
   fresh fruit & vegies (when available) in cooler pack
        Ipad
        Powermonkey Extreme battery
        First Aid kit
   blockout, snack bars, nuts in pocket

Right side - Evening meals
   dinner food
        tool kit
   spare tubes, spare ocky straps, plastic bag, in pocket

Rear panniers - Living quarters
Left side -The Kitchen
   cycling clothes
   fuel canisters
   cooking set
   stove
   mess kit
   cutting board
   rain jacket
   collapsible rucksack in pocket

Right side - The Bedroom
   street clothes
   sleeping bag
   silk inner sheet
   head-torch & candle lantern
   towel
   toiletry bag
   spare shoes
   pegless clothes line, trowel & toilet paper in pocket

Rack bag - The Shelter

   tent
   groundsheet
   rain fly
   Thermarest
   folding camp stool

   water bag, map case & sandals strapped under ocky strap

The arrangement was a little bit different using the Extrawheel, and you need to add the two 10L waterbags together with the food for ~6-7 days. By my reckoning: 20-25kgs of camping gear. 23kgs of water, 15-20kgs of food, for a total of up to 60kgs. That was only at the heaviest-laden points when starting off for a long stretch away from supplies.

 

[jags]

totally disagree with this panniers dont balance the bike as a matter of fact i would say the opposite ,they make the bike giddy on the steering .they should be banned if you ask me i decended at 52mph with just a read load only the barbag up front the bike never moved it was as solid as a rock.if your doing adventur cycling then ok your going to need  front panniers only for carrying extra gear my tours are short a week  at most and on tarmac .
if your unluckt enough to fall and break a bone its just careless riding believe me i was there fell on black ice broke my collorbone but it was my own fault i should have known better.
travelling at high speed on rough tracks is asking for trouble.
and before i get a slagging on this post  i'm cycling all my life i know about bikes and how to ride and take it from me front panniers are not the way to go.
there ended the rant take it as you will.

[il padrone]

All respect for your background in cycling and what works for you jags. This all just goes to show that you and I have a different experience and background. For me, on backroad cycle-camping tours I find it matters quite a lot.

if your unluckt enough to fall and break a bone its just careless riding believe me i was there fell on black ice broke my collorbone but it was my own fault i should have known better.

After the last fall, I'm not so sure - happened as I was riding at <30kmh on a gravel road, gentle descent.... and I was braking to pull up. Then..... *Wham-Bam*. Hmm  

travelling at high speed on rough tracks is asking for trouble.

You need to define "high speed" carefully.

i'm cycling all my life i know about bikes and how to ride

In this respect, you and I have an identical background   . 46 years since I began pushing pedals, 38 years of cycle commuting and 36 years since I began touring.

[Andybg]

Not that I want to sit on the fence on this one but I have a bike very similar to Jags and running with just a rear load of 40kg the bike is as solid as a rock with no ill effects. Loading up the front by taking 10kg from the back makes a definite detrimental effect on the handling. However - this is for on road riding and if ever off road I would be concerned about front wheel slide and also about lifting the front wheel on bumpy ascents.

I am now running with both front and rear racks so I have the ability to carry the grandchild on a bikeseat on the back and take her shopping using either my small or large pannier bags on the front.



Andy

[jags]

well so much for your front panniers balancing your bike if you fell, if you had no front panniers i reckon you would have controlled your bike much better. travelling on rought roads as you do you should know by now 30km is to fast whats your hurry your on tour after all slow down.

things move around in front panniers no matter how carefull you pack them so makes for an unstable bike .
anyway i could argue until the cows come home you have your oponion and i have have mine which of course is the right one no doubt you will disagree but such is life .

[Danneaux]

Weighing into this spirited discussion with a "middle-ground" consideration...

Individual bike geometry -- particularly with regard to differences in trail -- can make a huge difference as to how "comfortable" a given bike feels with a load in one place or another.

Case in point: A woman I know has made the move to go carless and has "discovered" high-end, bespoke bikes fairly recently. She has been through a fair number of "commissioned works" and has concluded she prefers traditional low-trail, randonneur-derived French geometry that favors putting the lion's share of the weight at the front of her bike, preferably in a large handlebar bag supported by a decaleur from above and from below by a front rack. This is a hallmark of low-trail design. Her bikes handle poorly with weight at the rear.

Conversely, relatively high-trail geometry (as often favored by Thorn) bikes generally fare better with a lion's share of weight at the rear.

The point being, different marques, models, and individual samples within (varying by size) can each display handling quirks. Most bikes have geometry varying to some degree as a function of frame size. As a result, what works well for one person or in some instances may not translate equally to others, be they bikes or people.

Bike handling, be it loaded or unladen, is a fascinating topic that is not entirely clear or fully understood.

The best and most valid test is usually individual experience if things go well, and then drawing on the collective experiences and experimenting with load distribution if one runs into problems.

All the best,

Dan.

[il padrone]

well so much for your front panniers balancing your bike if you fell, if you had no front panniers i reckon you would have controlled your bike much better. travelling on rought roads as you do you should know by now 30km is to fast whats your hurry your on tour after all slow down.

That's just the thing - it was not a rough road at all, but rather a good smooth gravel surface. We'd ridden through a much trickier (but still not exceptionally rough) section of the road previously.

This is the rough road - the Old Bay Road - closed to traffic. (I did not fall here)


It was in pretty good riding condition, a bit soft is all. On other occasions sections of it have looked like this


This was the section of road somewhere near where I did fall (Killala Rd - open to traffic)


The location is right about here - 200m or so before the big hair-pin bend.

I have ridden this road on at least 5 previous occasions by the way so the fall was not caused by some sudden change of surface catching me out. The front tyre slid sideways on a good gravel surface - suddenly and absolutely

things move around in front panniers no matter how carefull you pack them so makes for an unstable bike .

I have ridden with front panniers tightly packed (nothing will be moving around) and half-packed (where things do move around). On no occasion have I ever noticed any change to my steering from this. I can understand a view that front panniers change your steering feel - they do make it harder to change directions suddenly - the typical racer's move. However on a tour I am interested in stable, straight-line steering. I rarely need to make sudden twitches or turns to 'flick off' another rider   The benefit in control I am talking about is to give greater directional stability, the ability to sit or stand on long climbs with a load, and the steering control of a weighted front end on gravel surfaces. I find front panniers of great benefit for all of this.

And jags, please give me the credit to judge what is "too fast" for myself. I have been riding bikes on gravel roads for long enough to know that I was not doing an excessive speed on this road. I had passed by one of mates just prior to this, but that was on a short climb, something I do a lot better than Ed who is close to twice my weight. As I said, I was actually slowing to stop when I fell, probably actually travelling at 15-20kmh. The lack of severe grazing was a testimony to the lower speed. As for touring, yes that's what we were doing - I had stopped three times (for a gate, a photo stop, and some wandering sheep) in the past 3-4kms. It is a marvelous scenic backroad.