Feedback, re: Individual spoke reflectors?

[Danneaux]

Hi All!

The deed is done. I went with an eBay vendor ( http://www.ebay.com/itm/Spoke-Reflectors-3M-Scotchlite-Reflective-Safety-Wheel-ReflectaClip-Sekuclip-36-/160940615732?pt=UK_Cycling_Clothing&var=&hash=item2578cee834#shId ) after checking the prices including shipping to the US from all online sources I could find; these were the best deal to here. This is not an endorsement of the vendor, just passing along the lister I purchased from, who is based in Harrow, UK.

These are the 8mm jobbies, listed as 3M Scotchlite and the words ReflectaClip Sekuclip appeared in the listing title. I went for 72. This should be enough to cover *all* the spokes in the Nomad (32x2) with 8 left over for spares or to fit to my rando bike so it is that much more visible. Or, I could fit a bunch to 1/3 of each wheel on most of my bikes to get that attention-getting "wobble-effect" (no regs on how many must be used here in 'Merka).

As with most cycle-safety stuff, I keep thinking about how I'd just kick (what was left of) myself if I got hit by a car 'cos I was too tight to spend the money, which is modest as these things go. Seems worth a try. If they don't work for me, I may sell off the lot or bits of it, so stay tuned. If they get grubby, I figure I can drop them in my little ultrasonic cleaner with some dishwashing detergent and they should clean right up. I'll be Dan-testing these...for Science! For physics!

All the best,

Dan. (...who wonders how increased nighttime visibility on the road can be made congruent with stealth camping)

[martinf]

As with most cycle-safety stuff, I keep thinking about how I'd just kick (what was left of) myself if I got hit by a car 'cos I was too tight to spend the money, which is modest as these things go. Seems worth a try.

In my opinion a powerful front lamp is the most important piece of equipment for reducing the likelihood of accidents at junctions and on roundabouts, the other main danger is being hit from behind, so rear-facing reflectors and rear lamps are also essential. My current favourites are the rack-mounted B&M Line Plus dynamo lamp, with a Cateye LD1100 battery lamp on the seatpost. The latter has the advantage of additional side-facing LEDs. On the new Thorn and my 5-speed commuter I also have a third rear lamp, a B&M Seculight on the mudguard, so two rear lights running from the SON Klassik dynohub.

The B&M Line Plus won't fit on the old carrier on my blue bike, so that only has B&M Seculight and Cateye LD1100.

Reflectors only work if the driver's lights are pointing at the bike, so I reckon the other reflectors (wheel, front, pedal) and reflective jacket have a marginal effect. But as they are mandatory here I might as well have the most effective ones.

The most important thing is to remember that despite having all these lights and reflective devices, sometimes a driver won't see you simply because they haven't looked properly. This is a particular problem with large roundabouts. Rain and darkness exacerbates the problem, when visibility from a motor vehicle is drastically reduced.

[geocycle]

On the new Thorn and my 5-speed commuter I also have a third rear lamp, a B&M Seculight on the mudguard, so two rear lights running from the SON Klassik dynohub.

That's interesting.  How have you got these wired?  Separate wires from the front light or in series?  I have the seculight and two battery lights (smart 1/2 watt on seat post and cateye ? has a flat profile on rack).  I used to have two toplights but I found the quality poor and they eventually died due to water ingress.  Overall, I have mixed feeling about BUMM products, the IQ Fly is still going strong after 3 or more years but the others have been less robust.

[martinf]

That's interesting.  How have you got these wired?  Separate wires from the front light or in series?

The rack-mounted Line Plus is connected as normal from the front light, and I have the mudguard mounted Seculight connected in parallel from the Line Plus. Seems to work OK.

I have the seculight and two battery lights (smart 1/2 watt on seat post and cateye ? has a flat profile on rack).  I used to have two toplights but I found the quality poor and they eventually died due to water ingress.  Overall, I have mixed feeling about BUMM products, the IQ Fly is still going strong after 3 or more years but the others have been less robust.

I have had good luck with B&M, except for switches on battery or Senso Plus rear lamps and  Lumotec front lamps for hub dynamos. These B&M slide switches aren't designed for all-weather use and always failed after a certain amount of wet-weather.

But not (yet) had any problems with the Cyo rotating switch, and I have had some of my Cyos since they were first introduced.

Incidentally, I am not that bothered by the change in the Cyo beam. I have the original model on two bikes, and the new model on 2 others.

Some of the non-switched Toplights on family bikes have been used for over 10 years without any problems, including the one I had on my 2001 Brompton, which got exceptionally gruelling use (loads of vibration, lots of wet weather use) when I was using my Brompton intensively on coastal survey work contracts. The Toplight on the Brompton is retired now, as I consider the Line Plus to be more visible to following traffic, and the Brompton often gets nocturnal use in urban situations.

A non-switched halogen Lumotec also saw more than 10 years of use on my commuter bike (and several bulb replacements). It was still working when I replaced it with a Cyo to keep up in the lighting arms race.

[JimK]

I put some sekuclips on my Nomad. They do fit loosely on the spokes - not so loose that they could fall off, but they do slide up and down the spokes.

I did a rough calculation - at about 4 mph the centripetal force should be enough to keep them spun out by the rim. Even a bit slower they'll probably hesitate to drop. But definitely when I am walking my bike, I can hear those things going up and down.

I haven't been out riding at night since I got them. My little flashlight tests do indicate they should work well!

[Danneaux]

Hi Jim!

Mine arrived the last day of December -- 72 of them! I have been having fun playing with them, but am also a bit disappointed they don't stay in place until the wheel is spinning fast enough to throw them out against the spoke nipples. I treasure a quiet bike, and these go click-click-click. Makes me wonder about just how quiet a Chainglider might be.

I found not all the 72 are loose; some are extremely firm. I...am investigating to see what effect a heat gun will have. If I can induce a slight lateral arc, I think they will stay in place very nicely and remain quiet. I might be able to tweak them a little bit with just some gentle hand pressure

One thing I can't dispute -- these things are *bright* and very effective. I currently have two per wheel, and they show from nearly all angles other than dead-on. I got the 8cm versions, and each weighs 1.7-1.8g (or "not much").

Each zip-top baggie contains a sealed straw full of...something. I'll contact the seller later today, but at present, this is a mystery. A powder to make it easier to snap the reflectors on the spokes? Some sort of breakaway adhesive? Not-knowing will drive me crazy...

All the best,

Dan. ("Drive me crazy"? Won't be a long trip...)

[JimK]

Hey Dan,

I suspect it's some sugary candy. I bought from the same vendor.

Yeah, they don't all slide. I suppose a touch of glue would do, but I expect I will just leave them be.

[Danneaux]

I suspect it's some sugary candy

You go first, Jim... 

All the best,

Dan. (who thinks it could be candy...the seller also included a nice Christmas card with the order)

[Danneaux]

Hi All!

I did indeed hear back from the seller who tells me the little included straws contains sherbet powder ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherbet_(powder) ) ..."just a little something to sweeten your day".

A very pleasant surprise indeed, and a nice little "value added" extra from the seller.

I can't believe how bright these spoke reflectors are, nor how visible they are in practice. It is 20°F/-7°C this morning, but before it got really cold last night, I spent some time with the bike in its stand and me sitting behind the wheel of the car, headlights blasting forward to catch the bike from various angles. Sure, these reflectors work from the side as expected, but just as MartinF's photos showed, they also work from front quarter-oblique and rear-oblique angles as well, and really catch a driver's eyes. I had expected something of the sort from Martin's camera flash, but they are just as impressive in headlights.

I experimented for a bit (here where no specific regulations exist requiring full coverage), and found placing 2-4 on adjacent spokes gives a very attention-grabbing "wobble" effect in the lights. Given the dulled senses of many of the drivers here'bouts, this can only help.

I also found imparting a slight lateral bow to the reflector (i.e. "bending in hands") gives just enough friction for them to stay put on the spokes and not rattle when walking the bike.

So, yes, these appear successful all 'round at this point, and I'm a happy camper. I got the 72-pack of 8cm ones, and this leaves me the freedom to attach them to all the Nomad's 32x2 spokes if I wish and still leaves 8 left over (4/wheel) for the rando bike. At an average of 1.8g each, these will add a total of 115.2g/4oz to both wheels, spaced evenly so balance is not affected.  Going with the 4cm version would halve the weight but would also be far less visible -- it is partly the greater length that allows these reflectors to follow the spokes toward the hub, peek out  more beyond the rim and tire at an angle, and so better shine in the lights of oncoming or closing vehicles.

They address pretty much all of my complaints against ordinary wheel reflectors, including appearance and wheel balance and have the added bonus of being visible from more acute angles.

Best,

Dan.

[martinf]

I put some sekuclips on my Nomad. They do fit loosely on the spokes - not so loose that they could fall off, but they do slide up and down the spokes.

On my bikes, the Sekuclips fit firmly on all but one of the wheels. Most have 2 mm spokes.

The front wheel on my blue bike has butted spokes (1.8 mm or maybe 1.6 mm in the middle). Sekuclips wouldn't fit properly on this. The mechanic at my local bike shop suggested using a small bit of insulating tape around each spoke and this did the trick.

The rear wheel on my wife's Brompton has 2.3 mm spokes. No problem fitting the Sekuclips on this.

[Danneaux]

The mechanic at my local bike shop suggested using a small bit of insulating tape around each spoke and this did the trick.

An excellent solution for those of us with butted spokes Martin; a good share; thanks!

Bending them slightly to induce a slight arc before snapping them on does the trick, too.

All the best,

Dan. (...happy Sekuclip user who really appreciated your excellent photos of them)

[Andybg]

Hi Dan

Just wondring how you are getting on with these now you have had a chance to put a few miles on the clock?

Andy

[Danneaux]

Very pleased at this point, Andy, and so far they are exceeding all my expectations, so I am labeling them a "success"!

I didn't expect them to be *so* visible at night. One of my prime motivators in getting them was to increase visibility from oblique angles. They surely do that, and are highly visible from just off-center to a light approaching from front or rear.

Also, nice as the reflective sidewall strips on Schwalbe's tires are, they can be worn away quickly by abrasive surfaces. As we toured the Netherlands' sand roads, my riding partner's tires lost their reflective stripes in a day's use, churning through the soft sand. I will be using my bike in desert playa and figure a similar fate could befall them. The spoke reflectors are above the rim, and so are not subject to the same grinding and abrasion as the tire sidewalls and should remain reflective for a long time.

Some of my front reflectors were loose, and MartinF's suggestion of a small strip of electrical tape between the reflector and spoke solved the problem. Curiously, none of the reflectors were a loose fit on the rear wheel's spokes.

The retro-reflective effect is nearly identical in brilliance and reflectivity to the 3M Scotchlite patches on Ortlieb bags.  I initially experimented with just a pair of reflectors per wheel, thinking the "bobbing" effect might be more eye-catching to a driver, but this is trumped wholly by the far greater reflective area achieved by fitting a reflector to *all* spokes. When the wheel turns, it makes an 8cm wide band of silver-white reflected light all the way 'round the wheel. They're truly lightweight and are evenly distributed, so there is no imbalance as a result of fitting them.

I've made some unfortunate purchases in the last 6 months or so that I regret; not so these. A really solid product so far. Long-term, they may wear or become dim, but for now...outstanding, in my opinion.

One last thought in closing: I got the matte black bike thinking it would help me blend in while wild-camping at night. That is still true in the absence of light shown on the spoke reflectors, and a real bonus. I had thought about removing them before my big tour, but have since reconsidered. A popular sport in some desert areas (like the Central Oregon Sand Dunes, where there isn't much to hit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_Valley_Sand_Dunes *) is for four-wheel-drive enthusiasts to head out cross-country, bashing through sand, sagebrush, and whatever off-road day...and night. I'm thinking if the bike is propped upright on its Click-Stand and every spoke is reflectorized, it just might catch the eye of a nighttime off-roader before he would otherwise flatten the tent and me in it. In that circumstance, I'd be grateful for every stray lumen they reflect. That's the one instance I'd really hope someone *did* discover my stealth camp.

Yep, at this point, "Danneaux-recommended".

Best,

Dan. (*...who thinks the Lost Forest is an interesting place as well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Forest_Research_Natural_Area )

[JimK]

I pulled my winter tires off yesterday & put back on the Supremes. One thing I discovered is that the spoke reflectors interfere a bit with tire irons. They're too fat to let me hook the iron over the spoke. I found if I pushed the reflector all the way to the spoke crossing, and even turned the reflector so the opening aligned with the spoke crossing so I could push the reflector down that little bit more, then that got the reflector out of the way and I could hook the tire iron on the spoke.

[julk]

I put my spoke reflectors on just eight spokes of each wheel, this gives a nice moving reflection but allows enough free spokes to use tyre levers.
It also means I can give my sons some spoke reflectors...