Author Topic: Martinf's new Thorn  (Read 22610 times)

martinf

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Martinf's new Thorn
« on: December 06, 2012, 03:41:51 PM »
My new Thorn arrived a couple of weeks ago but I have only just finished getting it ready, first ride probably tomorrow.

It's one of the old stock Raven Tour frames, 587S. Not taped the bars yet, as I want to experiment with different bar tilts, move the brake levers and try different stem heights and extensions.

Danneaux

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Re: Martinf's new Thorn
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2012, 03:49:56 PM »
My! That's a breathtakingly beautiful build, Martin. I am so glad it has arrived, and can't wait for the first of what I'm sure will be many ride reports and (hopefully!) more photos. You even fitted a Hebie Chainglider -- magnificent!
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I want to experiment with different bar tilts, move the brake levers and try different stem heights and extensions.
That's what did the trick for me, Martin. See: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4523.msg28317#msg28317 Thanks for sharing; can't wait to see more of this gorgeous bike.

Best,

Dan.

Andybg

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Re: Martinf's new Thorn
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2012, 04:05:39 PM »
Looks fantastic - lOOKING FORWARD TO THE RIDE REPORTS

Andy

jags

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Re: Martinf's new Thorn
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2012, 05:30:56 PM »
Good stuff martin best of luck with the new baby she looks gorgeous ;)

cheers
jags.

Danneaux

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Re: Martinf's new Thorn
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2012, 05:52:13 PM »
I spy...with my little eye...lots of details!

• What appears to be a B&M IQ Cyo-series headlight
• A mysterious little rectangle just below it...? A reflector, perhaps, like this one? http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/schmidt-white-reflex-reflector-for-edelux-prod23917/ If so, then this might be the 60lux version of the Cyo?
• An extended front mudguard very nicely done and bolted in place for replacement or modification if necessary)
• F/R extended mudflaps on the 'guards
• 'Cross-top/interrupter brake levers
• Oh! You're a clips 'n' straps man, like me! Feetbelts.
• A Hubbub mount for the Rohloff shifter.
• Just spotted the snap-on SKS/Scotchlite spoke reflectors

...and lots more. Give, Martin, before I go blind looking for more!  :D

All the best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2012, 07:44:27 PM by Danneaux »

Matt2matt2002

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Re: Martinf's new Thorn
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2012, 05:57:31 PM »
Nice looking bike
Will you be carrying a front bar bag?
If so, where / how?
Never drink and drive. You may hit a bump  and spill your drink

jags

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Re: Martinf's new Thorn
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2012, 06:36:46 PM »
yeah just had another sneaky look  ::)
trying to figure out how the wiring is done for front and rear lights very neat job.
being a bit critical now  :)
need to level that brooks saddle,
dropkick that front reflector over the nearist ditch ,
i really hate the thorn seat post sorry lads but it does look cheap and completly the wrong colour for any thorn bike.nice carbon setpost  ;)
other than that class act.

jags

martinf

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Re: Martinf's new Thorn
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2012, 09:22:27 PM »
Dan picked up most of the non-standard mods and accessories. Those that haven't been mentioned:

- the cranks are 150 mm.
- extra long bottle cage on the seat tube, I added a neoprene ring to make the top catch on this more secure.
- little engraved name/address plate on the lower bolt of the down tube bottle cage. This used to be mandatory in France, not sure if it still is but I fit one anyway.
- cadence sensor for the bike computer (hidden by the pedal).
- bracket for backup battery lamp on handlebar.
- latex inner tubes, but you can't see those!

Dan's solution for longer brake hoods is a shorter handlebar. I'm trying a shorter stem, so the front of the hoods should be in about the same position as my 1977 bike. The tops will be closer, but I don't believe that matters as I ride mostly on the hoods. I'll find out on my test rides.

With the narrow Surly stainless-steel chainring and 3/32" chain and sprocket, the chainglider seems slightly more free-running when first fitted than the one on my 5-speed, but not dramatically so. Thorn don't like chaingliders, but I reckon it is easy to take off if I do decide I don't like it. The Rohloff-specific one has a larger opening than standard at the hub side, so it won't damage the Rohloff hub shell like early versions were reported to do.

Matt2matt2002 wondered about a bar bag. I'm not fond of these, though I do sometimes fit one on my rackless 700C lightweight when the saddlebag isn't quite enough.

With a touring bike I try and keep everything in the 4 pannier bags, any overflow gets strapped on top of the rear rack. Stuff I need to take with me for short stops off the bike goes in a minimalist 15/20 litre rucksack I generally stow inside the top of the starboard rear pannier. The rucksack is also useful for walking round town or shopping after parking the bike on trips when I don't camp and stay in hotels/hostels.

As my home-made panniers are too old and scruffy for a nice new bike, and the front ones aren't designed for low rider, I also bought new Ortleib Bikepacker and Sportpacker bags, 40 litre and 30 litre capacity respectively. I won't be trying these on the first few rides.

Jags wondered how the wiring is done - its just coaxial cable run along the frame and mudguard stays, held on with zip ties. Not too untidy looking as black cable, black zip ties and black paint.

>being a bit critical now  :)
>need to level that brooks saddle,

My photo makes it look worse than it is, it is very slightly off level, but the nearest I can get with the Thorn seat post.

>dropkick that front reflector over the nearist ditch.

Can't do that, front reflectors are mandatory here. A Cyo 40 with integrated reflector looks neater (I have this on my 5-speed commuter), but for the Thorn I prefer the Cyo 60, as the bike will probably get some nocturnal use on rural roads.
 
>i really hate the thorn seat post sorry lads but it does look cheap and completly the wrong colour for any
>thorn bike.nice carbon setpost  ;)

Nothing a bit of black paint won't cure. The drawback for me is the rather coarse saddle tilt adjustment. If I need to set the saddle dead level I may swap it out later for a plain seatpost with Brompton Pentaclip to get finer tuning.

Other planned additions and changes:

- locking headset spacer so I can play around with different handlebar heights and stem lengths without adjusting the headset each time.
- maybe a frame-mounted parking lock. I've got these on my visitor bikes and they are very convenient. I reckon they give enough security for short stops in the areas I usually ride. There is plenty of room to fit one on the front of the seat stays.
- I'll shorten the right-hand end of the handlebar once I am sure I get along with the Hubbub-mounted shifter.
- I may eventually do the same mod as Dan with 2 P65 rear mudguards instead of the stock P55. (a cut-down rear mudguard should look neater than my bodged front extension). I reckon P65 will fit, they will give more clearance for mud and studded winter tyres. But not straight away - the Thorn is new and clean, so for snow, ice and mud I'll use one of my other bikes this winter.
- Not sure about the pedals. These GR9 platform pedals are Thorn's recommendation for toeclips/straps (which they don't like much). If I don't like the GR9s I'll fit a pair of Suntour Superbe quill pedals instead.

Andre Jute

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Re: Martinf's new Thorn
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2012, 09:23:08 PM »
 A serious bike, though Jags is right, a black seatpost would be an aesthetic improvement.

What is that kink on both side on the bottom of the handlebars, about four inches in?

Andre Jute

Danneaux

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Re: Martinf's new Thorn
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2012, 10:54:29 PM »
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What is that kink on both side on the bottom of the handlebars, about four inches in?
A "feature" of anatomic-bend drop 'bars, Andre. Unfortunately, this was the source of a major quibble for me, as the kink was almost perfectly designed to compress one's ulnar nerve when riding the drops.  This affected me, but doesn't seem to bother others, so it a YMMV sort of thing, I think.

Best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2012, 12:57:18 AM by Danneaux »

Danneaux

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Re: Martinf's new Thorn
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2012, 11:16:32 PM »
Martin!

Thanks so much for the detailed explanation of all your lovely bike's features. I'm enjoying it immensely and am very taken with your build. Well done! Some things in particular caught my eye...
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- the cranks are 150 mm.
Ah! I'm thinking you might be  spinner like me? I remember you liked them in your post here: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4259.msg19687#msg19687
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- little engraved name/address plate on the lower bolt of the down tube bottle cage. This used to be mandatory in France, not sure if it still is but I fit one anyway.
This seems a very sensible addition, whether required or not, Any chance of a closeup showing it in detail, Martin?
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- latex inner tubes, but you can't see those!
Whew! I thought my eyes were failing!

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Dan's solution for longer brake hoods is a shorter handlebar. I'm trying a shorter stem, so the front of the hoods should be in about the same position as my 1977 bike. The tops will be closer, but I don't believe that matters as I ride mostly on the hoods. I'll find out on my test rides.
I'll be most interested to see how this works for you, Martin. We all take slightly different paths to common ends, so I am particularly intrigued. Please let us know how all works over time. If you ever want to discuss such things in detail, please feel free to contact me off-list as well.
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The Rohloff-specific one has a larger opening than standard at the hub side, so it won't damage the Rohloff hub shell like early versions were reported to do.
I'm about ready to spring for one, but Surly don't (yet) make a stainless 'ring in 104BCD for my Hollowtech II crank. I keep asking them, and hope I will hear "yes" very soon.
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Jags wondered how the wiring is done - its just coaxial cable run along the frame and mudguard stays, held on with zip ties. Not too untidy looking as black cable, black zip ties and black paint.
Looks especially nice 'cos it really *isn't* noticeable. Well done!
Quote
>being a bit critical now  
>need to level that brooks saddle,

My photo makes it look worse than it is, it is very slightly off level, but the nearest I can get with the Thorn seat post.
There is a little trick here, Martin. The clamp on many of these seatposts can be removed and then reversed. The effect is to sometimes split the difference on saddle adjustments. I'm not sure it will work on yours, but could be worth a try if you find yourself curious some Saturday morning.

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>dropkick that front reflector over the nearist ditch.

Can't do that, front reflectors are mandatory here. A Cyo 40 with integrated reflector looks neater (I have this on my 5-speed commuter), but for the Thorn I prefer the Cyo 60, as the bike will probably get some nocturnal use on rural roads.
 
Not bad-looking and for a purpose, Martin. Very nicely integrated, methinks.

Quote
Other planned additions and changes:

- locking headset spacer so I can play around with different handlebar heights and stem lengths without adjusting the headset each time.
Perhaps a lower T-bar for occasional HB bag mounting? It would serve the same purpose and actually weighs very little.
Quote
- maybe a frame-mounted parking lock. I've got these on my visitor bikes and they are very convenient. I reckon they give enough security for short stops in the areas I usually ride. There is plenty of room to fit one on the front of the seat stays.
I can endorse these highly, Martin. Love, love, love mine.
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- I'll shorten the right-hand end of the handlebar once I am sure I get along with the Hubbub-mounted shifter.
Seems sensible to wait for now.
Quote
- I may eventually do the same mod as Dan with 2 P65 rear mudguards instead of the stock P55. (a cut-down rear mudguard should look neater than my bodged front extension). I reckon P65 will fit, they will give more clearance for mud and studded winter tyres. But not straight away - the Thorn is new and clean, so for snow, ice and mud I'll use one of my other bikes this winter.
Though it looks very strange at first, the appearance is growing on mine, and I just couldn't believe how much cleaner it kept me and the bike in the rain yesterday. Except for what fell from the sky, the bike and myself were clean as could be on return. What a (positive) difference! Mine is staying put for the foreseeable future. <nods> I don't see any problem doing the same with a P65, Martin. If you would like any measurements for the amount I trimmed and where I placed the stay bridge, just ask.
Quote
- Not sure about the pedals. These GR9 platform pedals are Thorn's recommendation for toeclips/straps (which they don't like much). If I don't like the GR9s I'll fit a pair of Suntour Superbe quill pedals instead.
The Superbe Pro quills are my all-time favorite, Martin. The only thing to keep in mind is they have a non-standard cage spacing from the spindle center. Not a problem if you use them exclusively (I have them on all my bikes), but you will likely need either two pair of shoes or will need to adjust your cleats if you switch between the Superbes and another brand of quill pedal.

All the best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2012, 06:41:51 AM by Danneaux »

martinf

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Re: Martinf's new Thorn
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2012, 06:54:28 AM »
This seems a very sensible addition, whether required or not, Any chance of a closeup showing it in detail, Martin?

Mine is a few years old, but they are still available:

http://www.sermi2.fr/sermi-2-plaque-velo-p-502.html

There is a little trick here, Martin. The clamp on many of these seatposts can be removed and then reversed. The effect is to sometimes split the difference on saddle adjustments. I'm not sure it will work on yours, but could be worth a try if you find yourself curious some Saturday morning.

Thanks for the tip. Looks reversible on the Thorn post. Though I may go the plain seatpin/Bompton Pentaclip route for infinite adjustment. Done that on another bike so that:
(1) I could fit a steel seatpin. I reckon steel is safer for a cargo trailer hitch, especially as I sometimes pull heavy loads.
(2) I wanted the saddle much further forward than usual to get a compromise on handlebar reach with a long top-tube frame.

The Superbe Pro quills are my all-time favorite, Martin. The only thing to keep in mind is they have a non-standard cage spacing from the spindle center. Not a problem if you use them exclusively (I have them on all my bikes), but you will likely need either two pair of shoes or will need to adjust your cleats if you switch between the Superbes and another brand of quill pedal.

Not a problem for me as I don't use cleats. But the GR9s are rather narrow - if they don't work for me they'll probably go on one of my wife's bikes, she has much smaller feet.

martinf

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Re: Martinf's new Thorn
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2012, 04:11:51 PM »
First test ride impressions:

- The RL740 top-mount levers feel more solid than the lighter RL720s on my old touring bike.

- With clean new V-brakes, clean CSS rims and pads, braking from the hoods or the tops is noticeably more powerful than with my other bikes (these mostly have cantilevers).

- The front brake squeals horribly (I startled a pedestrian on the tow path). Thorn says this is normal with new CSS rims.

- I didn't notice any noice or vibration from the Chainglider at all when riding. There is a SRAM PC890 chain inside, running on the original factory lube.

- My Rohloff is quiet in gears 8 to 14. In gears 1 to 7 there is some noise and I can feel some vibration, but all gears seem to work efficiently. Gear 1 on my S5/2 Sturmey 5 speeds always feels a bit "rough", but this hasn't stopped me from riding about 84,000 kms with this type of gear hub.

At 17", my gear 1 is by a small margin the lowest gear I have ever had on a bicycle. Gear 14 at 89" feels a bit higher than I need on a touring bike. Gear 11 at 61" corresponds to 27 kph at 90 rpm so also a trifle high for my "most-used" gear. So when the current 16T sprocket wears out I'll probably go for an illegal 17T to lower the range (about 6%). The Rohloff has smaller and more even gear steps than my Nexus 8 Premium, but I didn't really notice this on my test ride. It will probably be more important on long rides. 

- The Hubbub-mounted gripshift works well for me - it feels natural to drop my hand off the brake hood and change down several gears at traffic lights. It feels a bit different from the Nexus 8 gripshift on my old bike, but its just as easy

- Didn't notice the GR9 pedals, so they will probably stay.

- I'm currently using a 40° 110 mm stem, giving a saddle nose/bar centre dimension of 480 mm. Saddle nose to front of brake hood is slightly longer than on my old tourer, and slightly shorter than on my 700C lightweight. As well as playing with different length stems, I can change this dimension by tilting the bars and moving the brake levers.

- Not yet felt the funny kink in the Thorn anatomic drop bars. I have relatively small hands for my size, so with luck I might avoid the problem Dan had with these bars

jags

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Re: Martinf's new Thorn
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2012, 05:18:48 PM »
good stuff martin so all systems are a go any chance of some pic's  ;)

Andre Jute

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Re: Martinf's new Thorn
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2012, 08:40:10 AM »
So when the current 16T sprocket wears out I'll probably go for an illegal 17T to lower the range (about 6%). The Rohloff has smaller and more even gear steps than my Nexus 8 Premium, but I didn't really notice this on my test ride. It will probably be more important on long rides. 

Could be a fair while... It's a rather durable component, and it's double sided, too. -- Andre Jute