Towards a Zero Maintenance Bike: Servicing my Rohloff w/ Phil Waterproof Grease

[Andre Jute]

Photo essay:
Towards a Zero Maintenance Bike
Servicing the Rohloff EXT Clickbox
with Phil Waterproof Grease

Andre Jute

June 2014 ADDENDUM: OOPS!

Oh, well. Doing the annual gearbox oil change, talking to gawkers, I forgot I was running an experiment to see if the EXT clickbox would go 5000km/3000m (the mandatory main oil service interval) with Phil's Waterproof Grease. So at a fraction under 3000km, without thinking, I cleaned the EXT unit and filled it with fresh Phil's Waterproof Grease, and refitted it.

The Phil's stood up well for 3000km; there was no sign it wouldn't have lasted to 5000km total. Phil anyway claims this grease is waterproof, implication permanently, until contaminated with dirt. The well-engineered parts of the Rohloff EXT clickbox are too close-fitting to let in dirt, though it won't keep out water if submerged, and water would eventually carry in enough dirt to contaminate the grease. Didn't happen to my bike though, so it is merely a theoretical speculation for the consideration of those who routinely ford streams at least to hub height.

I conclude that it is extremely likely that with high quality grease the EXT click box factory-recommended service interval of 500km (five hundred kilometers) is, for my sort of road use, totally over the top. The EXT click box can go 3000km for sure and very likely the full oil service interval of 5000km with a single load of grease.

[Danneaux]

Another nicely done photo-essay, Andre; thanks!

I do think (hope) you'll find the Phil Wood grease to your liking. It has surely served me well for more than three decades when used alone.

I do believe you'll see the Phil grease includes more "oil" then the Finish Line at the 1000km mark; that is one secret to its lubricity and effectiveness. It becomes essentially a clingy heavyweight oil in bearing tracks and on gear teeth, and remains a medium-viscosity grease inside the dust caps to serve as a barrier to water and dust entry.

I can heartily recommend Phil Tenacious Oil for your inventory as well; it clings exceptionally well and makes a nice, light assembly lube that stays in place well.

All the best,

Dan. (...following along with greatest interest. Ride, Andre, ride! We need you to reach the next 1000km soonest!)

[Andre Jute]

Thanks to Jags for the gift of the Phil Waterproof Grease, and a bow too to Dan, who went shopping for it in the States for Jags.

I'm trying to reduce the number of tubes and bottles of over-specialized stuff. I'm reducing them, as a first stage, to:

1. Silsa (?) barrier cream. Rub it on your hands, work with oily components, rinse your hands clean under running water, no soap required. Brill.

2. Phil Waterproof grease. Used as assembly grease for everything, on all mating surfaces and threads, used as packing grease for the only two places on my bike that require it (the Rohloff EXT click box and the vintage Phillips pedals). Replaces Finish Line White Teflon (really good stuff) and Ceramic Grease (not recommended) and Park Assembly Grease (filthy, messy stuff, hate the look, feel and smell of it).

3. Oil of Rohloff, for the chain. But I have an ongoing experiment to do without chain oiling altogether, so this one may fall by the wayside. Oil of Rohloff has a high sticktoit rating and is pretty water-resistant too; I like it. Also very economical because a few drops spread an unbelievable way.

So, if I'm lucky, two tubes in my toolbox, the German barrier cream and Phil Waterproof Grease, or at most one more, the Oil of Rohloff chain lube.

Andre Jute

[Matt2matt2002]

Great info here Andre.
May I ask about the rear stand you appear to be using for your bike?
It is fixed to the frame?

Many thanks
Matt

[Andre Jute]

It's an ESGE stand. It is bolted to a thick, solid steel tab soldered to the non-driveside chainstay (no chain that side, so what is it called?) between the disc brake reinforcement (runs from the chainstay across the mixte rail to the seat stay) and the frame end where all three tubes meet in a reinforced frame end. It works well but a solid, and solidly braced, tab is a prerequisite. I believe there are clamp-on models but you have to be careful to get the right size and not crush the chain stay.

[revelo]

I think all that grease is overkill. If you get flats, you'll have to unscrew the ex box to remove the rear wheel, at which point all that grease will collect crud. I don't see any reason to put grease other than in the hollow part of the ex box, the part that goes right over the drive axle. Greasing the bolts might also be wise. The ex box fits so tightly that not much water will get it even without slopping grease everywhere.

Of course, if you never get flats, then maybe this scheme will work. I've pretty much licked the goathead thorn problem myself, but I did get a flat on my last tour by running over an upturned nail.The Schwalbe Mondial has a kelvar belt, but that is mainly for protecting from gashes in the sidewall. A sharp nail (or goathead thorn) will go right through that kelvar belt.

As for the Hebie chainglider, that might work in some conditions, but here in the western United States, there are areas with very fine dust, which collects in a low point in the road. When you cycle through that low point, the dust rises up in a cloud about 2 feet high and coats everything in sight. So unless the Hebie is airtight, it won't work too well in these conditions. I don't think this phenomenon is unique to the western United States either. We don't have very fine dust everywhere, but I would say I run into it an average of a few times a day when biking on dirt roads. Plenty often enough to thoroughly dirty up a chain and everything else on the bike.

[Andre Jute]

I haven't had a flat in ten years, touch wood. The only time the EXT box is taken off is to be serviced. I don't care if greasing it with Phil is overkill; the point is to reduce all the service intervals on the bike to the one inescapable one, the Rohloff box oil change at 5000km. I already have chains guaranteed to last at least 4500km.

I've just had my Hebie Chainglider open along its entire length after about 3400km, and there was very little inside. Dust can get in but doesn't. My bike takes a fine coat of dust from the roads on the paintwork, but it doesn't get into the Hebie. The truth is that the thing is probably airtight along much of it's length, and the openings are small. I suspect that if you try it you will find not too much dust gets in.

Andre Jute

[swc7916]

I think all that grease is overkill. If you get flats, you'll have to unscrew the ex box to remove the rear wheel, at which point all that grease will collect crud. I don't see any reason to put grease other than in the hollow part of the ex box, the part that goes right over the drive axle.

That's my thinking also.  I use Phil Wood grease too, but not so much that it oozes out when I install the clickbox.  (Why is called a clickbox?  No clicking goes on inside it.)

[jags]

Good stuff Andre glad it worked out for you,just thinking that grease looks like the same colour as your bike  so no need to go cleaning it off it would never be noticed.
also i surly  wish you and Dan would make a video of all this TECH stuff you do on your bikes.

cheers
jags.

ps whats the weather like in bandon.

[wheezy]

Why is called a clickbox?  No clicking goes on inside it.

This is a good question. Who named it that in the first place? We should be told. It should be "pulley box" or something even sexier, if that's possible.

[revelo]

I've just had my Hebie Chainglider open along its entire length after about 3400km, and there was very little inside. Dust can get in but doesn't. My bike takes a fine coat of dust from the roads on the paintwork, but it doesn't get into the Hebie. The truth is that the thing is probably airtight along much of it's length, and the openings are small. I suspect that if you try it you will find not too much dust gets in.
Andre Jute

I'm going to wait to hear about your experiences or perhaps those of Danneaux, who travels on dirt roads in the same area as me. I have several objections to the chainglider right now:

1) Andy Blance doesn't use one and I'm trying to follow his lead as much as possible where bikes are concerned. I'm pretty new to bikes and so far, doing things the way he recommends has worked out very well for me.
2) I'm not aware of any other dirt-road expedition bike tourists, besides Andy Blance, who use the Hebie.
3) It doesn't support a 40 tooth chainwheel. That's okay for now, since I'm running 42/17, and it does support that combination, but I'm planning to go to 40/17 in the future. Of course, I could go to 38/16, since Hebie does support that.
4) More hassle removing the rear wheel to fix flats.
5) Reports of damage to Rohloff hub shell, though apparently that issue has been fixed or was a user error due to incorrect installation.

[Danneaux]

Hi Frank!

While I find the benefits of the Hebie Chainglider immensely appealing, I am holding off for now for many of the same reasons as yourself. Among them:

= I'm running a 40x17, a combination that is not supported, as you've noted. To do so, I would need to change gearing. While I would like a lower low, I am also committed to keeping to the Rohloff-recommended combos at least through the "break-in period" and likely longer.

= It would add to the hassle of removing the rear wheel, but not enough to be a deterrent for me. I'm finding rear wheel removals to be exceptionally quick and easy with the Rohloff compared to any of my derailleur bikes.

= Lingering concerns about clearances including ground clearance.

= Yes, I do travel in areas of deep, talc-like alkali dust. It goes everywhere, even inside the gasketed openings of car taillight housings. I think the Hebie would shield the chain from the bulk of it...but any that got inside would make for a terrible mess, as Andre has noted. At this point, without personal experience, I would be uncomfortable leaving the case attached for long periods in such an environment without checking to see what was going on inside.

I'd love a Chainglider for those rides during the year when I am not in that sort of environment (i.e. in the forest), but have at this point decided to go with a bash guard to protect the chainring from impact damage (and my leg from chain oil) on my desert trips and leave the chain open where it will get dirty but it is readily accessible for cleaning and re-oiling (which I do daily and sometimes more often in that environment).  I know Pete (Il Padrone) has purchased one and I was eager to see how it worked for him, since Australian bull-dust is similar to what we encounter, Frank. However, the last I heard he was having some clearance issues between the Chaiglider and his alloy front 'ring. I was advised by Robin Thorn to use a thinner, stainless ring to avoid clearance problems with the Chainglider.

So, in summary: I'm immensely attracted to the actual and potential benefits of the Chainglider, but given its price and possibilities for problems where I would use it, have decided to be a gentleman and let others go first.   I may well get one yet...but likely not for use in the ultrafine desert dust of the Great Basin.

Best,

Dan.

[Matt2matt2002]

Hi folks.
If I fit a Chainglider to the Thorn with S&S couplings I hope to buy, will it hinder the un-coupling?

[Andre Jute]

Good stuff Andre glad it worked out for you,just thinking that grease looks like the same colour as your bike  so no need to go cleaning it off it would never be noticed.
also i surly  wish you and Dan would make a video of all this TECH stuff you do on your bikes.

cheers
jags.

ps whats the weather like in bandon.

I dunno about a video. I already have enough problems holding the component in one hand, the still camera in the other, and the tube of grease in my teeth. I suppose I could hold the movie camera in my toes, but it's a bit cold outside for taking off your shoes and socks.

Seriously, I get brassed off by these videos, which I have to stop and rewind several times. I want these guys instead to take still photographs and go to the trouble of writing out lucid instructions.

The weather in Bandon is cold but (presently) clear, though intermittent showers have fallen all day. We should in theory at least, be a degree or two warmer than Dublin, but it doesn't feel like it.

Andre Jute

[jags]

A man of your talent a wee video would be no problem.
no worries Andre   your photo's are always welcome even though i'm not the owner of a rohloff or dynamo  never mind i enjoy your posts way above my head  way to technical for me  .

yeah very cold up this end but i've my sherpa ready for a good spin in the morn 
nite nite....