Danneaux's Nomad

[Danneaux]

thats something i must buy a pop rivet gun  great piece of kit.

They sure come in handy, jags. If you're going for one, try to get one with a long (extended) nose and swiveling head. It makes it so much easier to reach into tight places. The cost difference here is about USD$3 and well worth it. By the way, the secret to getting good results with one is to match the length of the rivet to the items you wish to fasten together. Get it too short, and it'll clinch prematurely and can work loose. Get it too long, and it leaves a mushroomed mess that doesn't hold very well. Every package of rivets has a thickness recommendation. Follow that and you'll always be fine and have great results.

my waterproof  jacket is no longer waterproof, ah well it served me well over the years just not today

Oh noes! Isn't that always the way? Rain jackets are bivalent, it seems -- waterproof and then...not!  Well, now y'know.   Don't you have a Corinne Dennis one in reserve? Be nice to break it in!

a new viser over the front mudguard

Wonderful!  Our friend Ian came up with a good idea and it should help, jags. It sure can't hurt.

...are those flaps worth the efford ,they look like they will add ever more wind resistance to a slow rider

Jags, I'd say "Absolutely!" They really have made a tremendous difference for me over years of my use. Of course, we are all different, but  find it makes almost half-again more difference than just a front mudguard. Not only do my feet and lower legs stay far drier, the drivetrain components last much longer. The chain no longer gets a shower where it curves around the front of the chainring (helps a great deal in dusty desert playa, too), road debris -- angleworms, rotted leaves, excretia, fine sand and grit, water of course -- are caught before they get on the chain or 'rings. Even the rear derailleur pulleys stay cleaner.

If you're wondering what a difference a good, long mudflap will make, try this:

Get a yardstick (or meter-stick, as the case may be) and put one end against the ground, where the front tire touches the pavement. Now, tip the end you're holding upward alongside the front wheel till it touches the bottom of your present front mudguard or mudflap. Everything *below* the yardstick is in the "spray zone" from your front tire. I like to have a front mudflap long enough so the "spray zone" falls below the largest front chainring. With care, you can also have it fall below the rear derailleur's tension pulley (the one that hangs lowest).

The difference is huge.

As for wind-resistance...no, there really isn't much -- hardly any caused by the one on my Nomad, 'cos it mostly "drafts" the outline of the front tire and can bend back slightly with the wind. The cup-type mudflaps are rigid and swell a bit to the side, so they can catch quite a lot of air (A disadvantage. On the other hand, they also catch a bit more side-spray, which is an advantage), depending on the combination of tire and mudguard width.  But no...the flap-type ones are really pretty much unnoticeable so long as they aren't too much wider than the tire, and I'm fussy about things like that, so I'd notice.  

If you were closer, I'd make one for you to try, but there's a bit of land and some wet stuff between us. Ah, well.

All the best,

Dan. ("Not just flapping his lips to feel the breeze")

[jags]

Cheers Dan  And Ian hope your idea works 
so i have the sks 55 i think (scratch's head )
 is there a certain width of mudguard flap i should be looking to buy or will standard one do the job.
btw are those flaps available in the uk.
oh i will be taking my new corrine dennis jacket from now on, really not nice getting soaked miles from home.

jags.

[Danneaux]

...so i have the sks 55 i think...

Yes, jags, you probably do have the P55. If you know the measured width, I could tell you for sure. The P55 varies a little from sample to sample and over its length, but is about 54-57mm wide.

is there a certain width of mudguard flap i should be looking to buy or will standard one do the job.

Well, not really; it is up to you. I have made some that were the exact width of the mudguard using a vinyl notebook cover (they come in various colors so you can mix-or-match) and then just narrowed the top so it would "swing" in the breeze. Really, there's better things than notebook covers, which are too light and tend to curl. Something heavier is needed. I have put a pedal reflector on the bottom of some I've made. Some people use rubber or vinyl stair tread, Andre is thinking of using linoleum scraps. I have seen them made of canvas and urethane-coated nylon pack cloth (with a weight at the bottom). Making mudflaps is very much a DIY project, but Buddy Flaps gave me a boost, in this case.

btw are those flaps available in the uk.

I think Buddy Flaps are only available from Buddy Flaps in Washington State, USA ( http://www.buddyflaps.com/ ), but if you look here on SJS Cycles' site, you'll see lots of examples you could easily copy: http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/mudguards-mudflaps-dept283_pg1/

Some use one bolt, others use two. Some mount inside (tire side), others mount on the outside. I tend to prefer inside so the glop stays inside the mudguard and the mudguard braces the flap. The other way is fine also...it just depends on personal preference and application.

i will be taking my new corrine dennis jacket from now on, really not nice getting soaked miles from home.

<nods> I'll say; miserable! So glad you have the new jacket. Time to demote the old one to wind-jacket duty only.

All the best,

Dan.

[Relayer]

I think Buddy Flaps are only available from Buddy Flaps in Washington State, USA ( http://www.buddyflaps.com/ ),

I ordered 3 sets of Buddy Flaps from the USA (thinking to keep 2 for stock and save on postage for future requirements).  The ordering process was a bit complicated in that the site didn't seem to like Paypal UK, but I got it through OK with credit card.  However, there was no indication of postage costs, so hoping for the best I put in the order regardless ... and hey presto 3 sets arrived in Scotland postage free!!  

I can only imagine the margin on an order of 3 fancy sets was enough for them to absorb the postage.

[Andre Jute]

Andre is thinking of using linoleum scraps.

Not quite. I would have, because I have a good relationship with the local carpet stores from the time I built famous/notorious speakers with carpet tubes as their resonance chambers, especially to play Gregorian music. But hardly anybody lays linoleum any more except for the thin cheap stuff.

No, I bought my bit of linoleum at an arts and crafts store for €2.99, marked down from 3.99. It's 3mm thick, and just marginally smaller than an A4 sheet of paper at 200x295mm. That's enough to cut three flat flaps or two curved around the mudguard. You can buy smaller and larger sizes as well, and I saw black, which I bought, and transparent stuff apparently of the same quality, which might be interesting.

There are two problems with good quality lino intended for cutting linoprints. One is that the wood quality dense stuff, and the thickness, weighs. The piece I have is about 260g or 9oz. It's enough to cut two curved mudguards or three Buddy Style flat ones, so a set of large mudflaps in it will be around 170g plus fasteners.

The other problem Dan has already mentioned. The stuff I have (probably pretty similar to the material Buddy uses) is stiff enough to make a flat flap which won't curl up under a stream of water sprayed off a tyre. That's good. But if you curve it around the tyre with two fixings in a horizontal line, it is also so stiff that when it catches on something it won't give until it has perhaps ripped your expensive P55 or in my case the P65.

So, if you want a curved mudflap, cheaper linoleum may not last as long, but it might be better for the health of more expensive components. Or leather, if you don't mind the hygiene and appearance issues that put off Dan -- they don't bother me; leather is supposed to wear, and I rarely go off road so the cow dung issues doesn't bother me.

Andre Jute

[Danneaux]

Not quite...I bought my bit of linoleum at an arts and crafts store...

Got it now, Andre; thanks!

if you curve it around the tyre with two fixings in a horizontal line, it is also so stiff that when it catches on something it won't give until it has perhaps ripped your expensive P55 or in my case the P65.

nods> Yes, this is the Big Wurry if one's travels include any off-roading where the flap could catch (large holes, drop-offs, mesquite and sagebrush in the desert, sticks and logs in the forest). On my rando bike, I have the PlanetBike Cascadia flaps attached to my ESGE/SKS ChromoPlast 'guards and am happy for mostly on-road use, but woe betide me if they catch something!

...Or leather, if you don't mind the hygiene and appearance issues that put off Dan -- they don't bother me; leather is supposed to wear, and I rarely go off road so the cow dung issues doesn't bother me.

The cow dung isn't the issue. It is roadkill. There's a lot of it along the rural roads I travel* and much of it is bloated and sun-ripened, which is bad, but not so bad as when the rains hit and it gets uh, juicy. If I have to run through the remains (sometimes can't be avoided on narrow shoulders else my own remains will soon join them), then they stick and ferment on the bike, and that's just nasty. Bad enough to see, but to carry the odor with you as you travel is really bad. Especially in camp, when it attracts predators and scavengers. I don't need to attract coyotes and bear to camp; either will go right after rotting entrails and such.

The other reason I prefer long, easily cleaned mudflaps is Mormon crickets. These are large insects (shield-backed katydids) that swarm every 4-5 years in the Great Basin and cover the roads, ground...everything. They cannot be avoided in such numbers and squish under tires and feet. They are cannibalistic and when some of their numbers die, it attracts others to dine on them. They are so numerous as to cause traffic accidents when their bodies slime the roads and they crawl up pant legs and down shirts. Here are some references:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormon_cricket
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_the_gulls
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mormon_cricket_cannibals.jpg
And some videos:
http://video.nationalgeographic.com/video/animals/bugs-animals/grasshoppers/crickets_mormon/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajBLkApnjrE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgrI5KaPuwI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SA649is6fnQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wd4MxByopQ

A high-gloss, easily-cleaned mudflap -- any mudflap; I think you can see why I like them -- is worth a lot in such circumstances. A quick squirt from the water bottle and a little judicious scraping with a stick, and I'm oh-so-fresh once again. The mudflap catches the lion's share of the mess and keeps it off me, the bike, and the drivetrain.

All the best,

Dan. (Eww!  )
*This is why I get irritated when motorists and fellow cyclists throw away organic and inorganic garbage along the road. Banana peels, orange skins, apple cores, and wrappers attract even more animals to the roadside, where they get run over by cars -- especially at night, which is a real hazard. Mice crawl into nearly empty bottles of energy drinks to sip the sweet drops at the bottom, then can't get traction to leave the way they came and become trapped; their cries draw even larger predators who get squashed as well. I take a folded bin liner with me on day rides to scoop up what trash I can, and nearly always fill it by my return home.

[Danneaux]

Andre, jags,

One sometimes overlooked source of mudflap material is old bicycle waterbottles. These are already pre-curved in radii close to that of a mudguard, and can be simply cut vertically in the desired width; the cupped shape goes far toward catching side-spashes.

The beauty of using waterbottles (besides the variety of colors and logos they afford) is they can be made to attach with one bolt (centered) /or/ two (spaced laterally) so the same flap design can be semi-flexible or rigid depending on how it is mounted. If one narrows the top and uses just one bolt, the flap can pivot freely rearward and so almost entirely avoid damaging the mudguard blade. The only kind of damage that can be incurred with a "bottle-flap" is if it suffers a direct upward vertical load, as the partly curved bottle material is amazingly rigid in that plane. I managed to get in trouble once when I wheeled my bike off a curb while crossing as a pedestrian. The lower rim of the flap caught as the tire dropped off the curb and stressed the mudguard mightily -- not enough to break it, but it did bow the struts and I had to straighten them after. I don't think this would have happened if I had not curved the flap well 'round the sides of the tire.

Just a thought; "bottle-flaps" look very nice and properly finished when mounted.

All the best,

Dan.

[jags]

i'm in the shed all day trying to make mudguards   so far 3 water bidons in the bin
but never give up the ghost i now have a templete cut out with black builders plastic that looks perfect,ah but not sure i like it on me bike (mudguard) looks a bit out of place.

[Danneaux]

now have a templete cut out with black builders plastic that looks perfect,ah but not sure i like it on me bike

<nods> Yes, it is a big change, visually, and takes some getting used-to. It took me awhile to work up to the Longboard front mudguard!

Try taping it on with duct-tape, jags. That way, it will be secure enough to try for a day and if you don't like it, you can always take it off. Don't leave it more than a day or so, 'cos the sticky backing will gum-up your mudguard and it's tough to get off. If you find yourself in that spot, you can get a long ways removing it if you take a wad of fresh tape and use it as a blotter to remove what's stuck.

All the best,

Dan.

[jags]

  cheers dan.

[Andre Jute]

I have plenty of water bottles, but I must say I'm not enamoured of this idea. I ride on pavements/sidewalks quite a bit as many of our roads are through roads, narrow with very fast traffic, and one of the joys of balloons is that you don't think twice about dropping off an eight-inch kerb. That vertical stiffness of the waterbottle material is unwanted in this situation, for sure, Dan, as you've already experienced.

I can't afford to destroy my P65s; it looks like SKS has stopped making any 28in mudguard bigger than 55mm wide; Getting the Cascadia 29ers (which look like they were made by SKS and might thus disappear as soon as stocks on hand run out)  from Planet Bike in the US, apparently the only other source, would be a killer for carriage and possibly import/customs duties.

Andre Jute

[Danneaux]

I have plenty of water bottles, but I must say I'm not enamoured of this idea...

<nods> Perfectly understandable; for the same reasons one does not appear on my Nomad.

I can't afford to destroy my P65s...

Also perfectly understandable, Andre. It is very getting very hard to find wide, lightweight fenders of quality. I may have a line on a couple possibilities. If it pans out, I will pass the information on.

...the [Planet Bike] Cascadia 29ers (which look like they were made by SKS...)

They surely do look like SKS products, Andre, but I don't believe they are. For one thing, if they're like the rest of PB's line, they are made of solid poycarbonate and are not laminates. No alu core. It would pay to shoot an inquiry their way to check. For what it's worth, I actually prefer PB fenders in many ways. Never, ever use automotive carburetor cleaner near them; even the overspray breaks-down the molecular bonds in the polycarb, causing them to melt; don't ask how I know this.

Planet Bike in the US, apparently the only other source, would be a killer for carriage and possibly import/customs duties.

Remember, if you're paying by Euro, at present you'd pick up 25% or so in the exchage rate. Something to keep in mind.

All the best,

Dan.

[Andre Jute]

I've made a thread http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4805.0  for stainless mudguards I found. They would be even less forgiving than the chromoplastics, I think. -- Andre Jute

[il padrone]

Cheapest of the cheap for mudflaps - a section of PET milk bottle. Able to be made wide or narrow, can be cut as a flat sheet, able to be cut with ordinary scissors, flexible so as not to damage your SKS guards and ever-ready for recycling/remaking.

 

[Matt2matt2002]

I came across this picture taken on Bishkeck
I note the long lower flap and extremly short top part over the wheel
Comments please folks / Dan


https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/page/pic/?o=1&pic_id=1420204&size=large