Author Topic: Danneaux's Nomad  (Read 260997 times)

Danneaux

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Re: Danneaux's Nomad
« Reply #45 on: September 16, 2012, 10:50:42 PM »
Quote
I was getting quite good at it after 10 years experience so I see now why you are a mine of advice if you've had 30 years development and experience in bike touring.

(Very kind words, and I thank you.)

B-bu-but Ian...I still learn something new everyday!  Gee, I'd hate to get to the point where I 'knew it all", as there'd be no fun left!

All the best,

Dan. (...who thinks adventures on 90cc motorbikes sound absolutely wonderful!)
« Last Edit: September 16, 2012, 10:53:33 PM by Danneaux »

triaesthete

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Re: Danneaux's Nomad
« Reply #46 on: September 17, 2012, 12:35:53 AM »
Hi Dan
I've put a few links in the hobbies other than motorcycling thread. http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3073.45

When you say you learn something new every day, it's true. That's why there is no definitive set up... the future's great!
Cheers
Ian
« Last Edit: September 17, 2012, 12:40:39 AM by triaesthete »

Danneaux

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Re: Danneaux's Nomad
« Reply #47 on: September 17, 2012, 12:58:40 AM »
Quote
I've put a few links in the hobbies other than motorcycling thread...

Genuinely good stuff, Ian! So glad you posted the links.

Quote
...learn something new every day...That's why there is no definitive set up... the future's great!

Truer words were never spoken! We're like peas in a pod on that one, Ian.

All the best,

Dan. (..who is now convinced adventures on 90cc motorbikes sound absolutely wonderful!)

jags

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Re: Danneaux's Nomad
« Reply #48 on: September 27, 2012, 11:50:51 PM »
Dan have you taken the nomad on any adventures yet (video sorry buddy got to ask ),
sorry if i asked that before but i have just taken some prescribed  med for my headache and i think I'm on a trip.happy days  ;D ;D

Danneaux

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Re: Danneaux's Nomad
« Reply #49 on: September 28, 2012, 01:31:56 AM »
Hi jags!

No, no long trips to date except for longish day trips greater than 110mi/180km on a mix of pavement and rough-stuff/logging roads/single-track. The Nomad is doing well, but wants to go on a proper camping tour. Time has been the limiting factor, but it will come. Our weather patterns seem to have changed, and we're having a lovely, extended Fall...the forecasts are calling for daytime highs in the low-80sF/28C everyday till Friday after next. Then, a few days with scattered showers till it settles in to the high-60s/mid-70sF, 20-23C with a mix of sun and clouds. Nice as it is, this is not normal for us over here in the upper-left corner of 'Merka. My buddy in Alaska tells me it is nothing but heavy rain and storms, and he was without power in Anchorage-Wasilla for a whole week thaks to a recent storm.

I'm working on getting the camera sorted; the rigid mount is *perfect* for pavement, but horrible when it turns rough, so I am getting the chest harness and helmet cam arranged for those occasions. I've got *so* much going on here at present, I have to kind of prioritize my projects; I've got a Big one related to the Nomad coming up soon, with sponsorship obligations. Be patient; you'll see resuts soon.  ;)

A good part of this afternoon was spent replacing the Nomad's front mudguard with a repurposed rear one and blacking-out the stays with heat-shrink tubing. I still need to undrill a couple holes in the repurposed mudguard, then I'll be done with the task. My late mother sometimes used the word "hideawfulous" to describe something that was otherwise too hideously awful for conventional words. My father's favorite phrase for such things is, "Get a stick and I'll kill it". Hopefully, I've missed both reactions with the new mudguard. Though my fellow Forum members may hold their heads in dismay, the results look very good to my eye, with photos to follow soon. I may very well switch back to a conventional front mudguard for summer, but this long one will do wonders for keeping me drier when the rains come. It'll even keep the front panniers looking much fresher. I have misplaced my spare Playmobil ravens, and I need to affix one to the new front mudguard.

Things are moving right along.

The AXA ringlock that used to live on Sherpa is now on the Nomad, and the transfer was not easy. The Sherpa's seatstays were smaller in diameter and in a fastback style; the Nomad's are much larger in diameter and attach to the sides of the seat tube. I had to remove the clasping arms from the AXA ATB mounting blocks, mill the seatstay cradle larger in diameter and take it down 3mm each side after pening up the mountin hooks. The result turned out great, and looks like it is factory-original -- yay! I'll breathe a little easier having the lock on and mounted for my day rides. Photos of that a bit later, too.

I got the IQ Fly low-rise headlight mount modified and installed for properly mounting the IQ Cyo R in the same position it occupied on Sherpa (the Nomad's biplane truss fork mounts the light higher otherwise), and the lighting and charging system will follow when I have a bit more time. I have some new modular routing and wiring ideas, and don't want to rush things.

I sure hope the new headache meds do their job for you, jags; not fair you've had those to deal with.

All the best,

Dan. (Stay tuned! More's coming soon...)
« Last Edit: September 28, 2012, 01:42:06 AM by Danneaux »

jags

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Re: Danneaux's Nomad
« Reply #50 on: September 28, 2012, 12:39:45 PM »
cheers dan look forward to seening all the changes to the nomad loads of pic's please. ;)

Danneaux

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Re: Danneaux's Nomad
« Reply #51 on: September 30, 2012, 03:40:42 AM »
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...look forward to seening all the changes to the nomad loads of pic's please...

You have only to ask, jags!

This post is bound to raise a bit of controversy on aesthetic grounds, if nothing else.

In anticipation of rain and winter use, I have modified and repurposed an SKS P55 rear mudguard for use on the front of my Nomad. I still have the "shorty" for summertime use in good weather, but if past experience holds true here, I may well be keeping the "long-board" design as my default.

Over years of careful observation, I have found the common front mudguard really doesn't do a very good job keeping me dry when riding in the wet. They commonly end at about 90°/12 o'clock, and this is not the best design for use in foul weather. Especially when a treaded tire is used, the water clinging to it is still moving forward and out of these short mudguards at pretty high velocity and gets flung forward...just in time for me to run into it. As a result, my headlight gets splashed with mud and dirt, and a lot of the wet stuff catches me between my knees and thighs and the bike gets filthy with dirty water, most of which is blown back from the top of the short front mudguard.

I looked at photos and illustrations of French constructeurs' bikes from the Grand Era of touring in the years before and after World War II and again in the 1950s and 1960s; Herse and Singer are the most prominent examples. Nearly every constructeur's bike was fitted with generous front mudguards that curved well forward, over the crown of the tire. When viewed from the right side, they terminated about 1 o'clock to 2 o'clock, depending on the type of brakes used -- brazed-on centerpulls or cantilevers. It was common for the front of the mudguard to terminate at the same height as the brakes. In no case did the mudguard extend as far as the front of the tire; this to prevent damage if the tire contacted a wall. For some examples, see:
http://janheine.wordpress.com/2011/03/21/which-bike-to-ride/
http://janheine.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/windyridgefarewell.jpg
http://janheine.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/gburainier.jpg <-- A more recent recreation by Grand Bois

Andre will quickly recognize this as something Utopia Velo do as well, but with less extension:
http://www.utopia-velo.de/relaunch/index.a4d

Having pondered this for some time, I decided to do the same on one of my older lighter touring/randonneur bikes some years ago (see: http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4523.0;attach=11924;image ) -- combined with a generous mud flap -- and the results exceeded all my hopes. I could ride through heavy rain and puddles and stay much drier. The results were even more marked when I rode with a companion who had conventional "shorty" mudguards -- she got soaked, while I ended the ride dry and happy. My panniers stayed much cleaner and drier as well, and so did the bike itself.

The extended mudguard contains the water till it loses volume and velocity, and then directs it downward, where it naturally drains and is further carried in a downward trajectory by the spinning tire. Specialized employed a similar front mudguard on their early Globe city bikes for the same reasons. These things really work well for commuting and touring in the rain, when you just have to keep going regardless of the weather. I can't claim a marked aerodynamic advantage, but the leading edge no longer faces directly into the wind, and the weight penalty is a couple ounces.

I wanted the same ground clearance and stay placement as the original short front mudguard, so I removed 4.24in/10.8cm total from the *rear* of the rear mudguard, using the end of the short front mudguard as a template and rough-cut the new contour with scissors about 1cm longer than I needed. I then sanded it to the final contour using a disc sander and a high-speed die-grinder fitted with a 1.5cm sanding drum. The results turned out well. The upper bridge from the original rear stayed riveted in place, and the lower bridge was reloacted further up to match the shorty. The bridge from another front mudguard was salvaged and riveted in place at the front with alu backing plates to distribute stress, and a fresh set of stays for all bridges were supplied by PlanetBike, who kindly make spare parts available at modest cost and postage-free: http://ecom1.planetbike.com/smallparts.html I especially like their draw-bolts, which are equipped with 10mm stainless nylock nuts instead of the usual 8mm nuts that can vibrate loose. See: http://ecom1.planetbike.com/7006_7.html

I needed to fill a few holes in the mudguard, and did so using some plugs cut from the leftover end. I used a leather punch to regularize the unwanted hole, then filled it with the same-size plug, dropped in from the outside and secured with beta-cyanoacrylate gel. See: http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=4725.msg23673#msg23673 The hole in the top of the mudguard is temporarily plugged with a rubber socket-head bolt cover, but will soon be filled with a proper plug that will support my Playmobil raven mudguard mascot (see: http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=4523.msg22087#msg22087 ). The Cyo headlight is test-fitted in the photo below, so the power leads are simply draped over the steerer-mounted bottle cages; all will be installed properly in time.

The front of the extended mudguard is supported with short single stays held by longer 6mm buttonhead stainless socket-head (allen) bolts on the front-outside corners of the Thorn Low-Loader MkV pannier racks. The mudguards are held securely; vibration is what really kills plastic and plastic-alu-laminate mudguards over time.

The sharp-eyed among you will see I also used heat-shink tubing to blackout the mudguard stays. I think this looks is more consistent with the stealthy matte-black paint on the Nomad. Aesthetics count for something, so I matched the angle of the mudguard struts with the Low-Loader braces so they would look like a natural extension. Their lateral bracing angles keep the mudguard end from vibrating, even on rough roads.

So, there you have it -- a Nomad Mk2 with an extended front mudguard. The appearance is an acquired taste but in this case, it works so well that function trumps fashion for me. Now I am used to it, I have come to see beauty in the design and look forward to keeping the bike cleaner and myself drier when the Fall and Winter rains hit. Besides, it reminds me of my father's Indian motorcycle mudguards, back in the day (second photo, 71 years ago). For those who don't like it...I'll bet it takes your mind off the high-mounted brake levers, tipped handlebars, and T-bar mounted Rohloff shifter!  :D

Best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2016, 04:05:32 PM by Danneaux »

Danneaux

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Re: Danneaux's Nomad
« Reply #52 on: September 30, 2012, 04:14:28 AM »
Hi All!

Along with modifying and installing the longer front mudguard, I've been busy adapting the AXA Defender ring-lock to the Nomad; it had previously been installed on Sherpa:
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=1944.msg19741#msg19741

Reasons I chose it are here: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=1944.msg19634#msg19634

This turned out to be no easy task, as the Nomad has much larger seatstays, and they attach to the sides of the seat tube rather than to the rear in a fastback style, as on Sherpa. Effectively, the stays were too large and too wide for the AXA Defender's ATB-mounts to capture, and the same held true for the flexible mounting strips AXA offer as an alternative. I put a good 6 hours into trying to make both work before I retired from the task to give it more thought.

The solution proved surprisingly easy and straighforward. If you refer to the photos linked at the first thread referenced above, I had to remove the claspers on the standoff blocks, then mill the locating groove to match the Nomad's seatstay diameter. I used a sanding drum to remove bulk stock, then turned-down a "green" silica grinding stone to the exact diameter needed to match the Nomad seatstays and used that with a high-speed die-grinder to set the final contour, thinning the standoff blocks by 3mm each. The final result tolerances were accurate to 0.1mm according to my Mitutoyo digital caliper.

After the standoff blocks were contoured, I turned my attention to the "cup hook" portion of the ATB mounts, and opened them a sufficient amount to accommodate the Nomad's larger stays and covered the contact points with double layers of heat-shrink tubing.

The whole lot bolted up pretty nicely, and the cover plates snapped on just fine, concealing the mounting nuts on the threaded ends of the cup hooks. Without over-tightening or damaging the stays or paint, the ring-lock is tight enough so it doesn't "clock" around the mounts when the spring-loaded shackle is released; it is solid, just as I hoped.

I feel a lot better having the ring-lock on the bike and use it -- with or without the plug-in 1.5m cable -- whenever I stop so a snatch-and-grab theft cannot occur; they are common in my area. The key remains captive in the lock while riding so I can't forget it, and is held nicely on my wrist with an expanding plastic coil when I leave the bike. I like the AXA Defender, and the ATB mount's standoff blocks leave enough clearance between lock and stays so grit cannot get in between and grind on the paint, and it is easy to "floss" the area with a soft, damp cloth to remove any dirt at cleanup time.

Best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2015, 06:34:35 PM by Danneaux »

Danneaux

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Re: Danneaux's Nomad
« Reply #53 on: September 30, 2012, 04:31:16 AM »
Hi All!

I don't have my lights and charging system fully installed on the Nomad yet. I am taking my time, and have plans for a new modular connector system that should make it even easier to perform future routine service on the headset and such with the lights and the Tout Terrain The Plug 2 and PAT cable in place.

Meantime, I have found the Nomad's light mount is considerably higher than Sherpa's, thanks to the Nomad's extended fork and tall biplane fork crown (the frame is designed to allow for a suspension fork and preload, so the rigid fork is a bit taller to compensate).

The difference between the two light mounts is about 1.25in/31.75mm vertically.

I will be using the BM Q Cyo R headlight from the Sherpa on the Nomad, and the heavy stainless-steel wire mount on it looked awfully high on the tall fork, and I really wanted it lower for better aiming (it still cleared the underside of the Ortlieb HB bag nicely).

B&M to the rescue with a Lumotec Fly Cantilever Mount (shown about 2/3 down the page here: http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/light-mounts.asp ). This restores the Cyo to nearly the same height as on Sherpa, and I like the lower-profile mount even better, as it will allow for a cleaner wire run to the backside of the crown.

The original IQ Cyo R mount is shown test-fitted to the bike and the Lumtec Fly Cantilever mount is held next to it for comparison in the photo below. The standoff blocks are turned, black-anodized aluminum spacer plates from some old Dia-Compe short-arm cantilevers dating to 1983. The Playmobil raven mudguard mascot will go where the present rubber plug fills a hole in the top of the mudguard in the attached photo.

More installments as the light and charging system build progress.

Best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2012, 04:35:01 AM by Danneaux »

triaesthete

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Re: Danneaux's Nomad
« Reply #54 on: September 30, 2012, 01:00:18 PM »
Hi Dan
nice work. I particularly like the stays aligned with the low loader tubes.

I love your dad's bike, they were built as transport back then, not toys. Nowdays a motorcycle with practical guards would never get out of the showroom, but then owners moan about lack of weather protection and practicality and spend loads on mudguard accessories. Go figure! as they say in 'Merka. Some conflict between desire and needs. It would be nice if the current retro hipness encouraged a few designers to revisit old time practicality for real.

To stop the forward spray from under the front mudguard I adopted a pragmatic English approach (bodge ::) ) and used a little bit of black  insulation tape on the underside of the mudguard to make a little curtain that hangs just above the tyre tread. The funny little plastic end trims then serve a purpose and retain the tape in wet conditions. 5 minutes and 0.1pence, simples.
I like to use threadlock on the stay nuts and I finish the stay ends shorter and out of sight like Thorn do in their brochures.

Yours is a real artisans bike with all those industrial products subtly improved.
I'm impressed.
Ian

jags

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Re: Danneaux's Nomad
« Reply #55 on: September 30, 2012, 01:40:25 PM »
Ian sorry for being a pest but have you a photo of that front mudguard ,
i was thinking of  glueing a piece of plactic under the front of the mudguard but your idea sounds simple but would like to see it ;)

in4

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Re: Danneaux's Nomad
« Reply #56 on: September 30, 2012, 01:47:44 PM »
Dan, that photo of your Dad on his Indian is fantastic. You can see the mix of joy, pride and pleasure written all over his face. I'm minded to think Jack Kerouac and On the Road. Bit of an embryonic thesis of mine but I think there was something quite unique going on in the USA between the wars. Your Dad appears quite illustrative of that. Copyright that photo before the 'Madmen' claim it!

jags

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Re: Danneaux's Nomad
« Reply #57 on: September 30, 2012, 01:54:40 PM »
yeah jack look's ever the cool dude has he still got that bike .

triaesthete

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Re: Danneaux's Nomad
« Reply #58 on: September 30, 2012, 05:10:37 PM »
Hi Anto
I'm not quite e adept enough to do pictures just yet. But I use 20ish mm black insulation tape and just fold it to make a wee curtain at the front of the mudguard, then put the plastic trim back on to retain it for sure. If it touches the tyre just trim with scissors. Any bits that do touch in use will soon wear and give clearance.
I think tape is better than anything rigid because anything stuck to the tyre and passing underneath will just displace it harmlessly and not trash the mudguard or lock the wheel.

Go and have  try, feel the vibe, you've only got a few inches of tape to lose  :)
We can pretend it's judicious improvisation instead of bodging.

Better than nowt for almost nowt
Ian

jags

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Re: Danneaux's Nomad
« Reply #59 on: September 30, 2012, 05:24:21 PM »
good idea  me thinks i will have a go at this tonight, ;)
my good wife gave me a lecture on how i have all the gear possible to keep me dry on the bike when it lashing rain, and we live on an island so get used to rain buddy  ;D ;D
cheers ian .