Author Topic: dynamo advice please  (Read 13858 times)

jags

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dynamo advice please
« on: June 23, 2012, 06:53:42 pm »
i can't afford a new front wheel with the son dynamo just yet, so was thinking of gethttp://www.sjscycles.co.uk/busch-and-muller-dymotec-6-sidewall-bottle-dynamo-prod1061/ting this , so what head light should i get with it and is it going to be as strong as the son28..
sorry for all the stupid questions but hey its jags here ;D ;D

Danneaux

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Re: dynamo advice please
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2012, 07:46:19 pm »
Hi jags!

No stupid questions here except the ones left unasked, so you're okay, Bud.

As for the bottle generator, I think you'll be fine. It will have more drag than the SON when it is running, but none at all when it isn't, so you won't notice any difference compared to your current setup in daylight.

Pair this thing with a B&M IQ Cyo R headlight and a Toplight Line Plus taillight, and you'll be set for seeing and being seen at night. Actually, pairing it with nearly any LED headlight will give you worlds better light than the earlier halogen or krypton gas-filled tungsten incandescent bulbs ever provided. This bottle generator should have no trouble lighting an LED headlight and taillight.

If you're looking to power and charge gadgets, there are better choices (like the dynohub), not so much from a standpoint of sheer power, but drag. It's not bad-bad, but bottle generators will have you working harder. I ran one of the old Union 9814 models for years back in the late 1970s and early '8os when dinosaurs roamed the earth, and I'm still here. Now, that was something. It felt like I hit a wall when it cranked against the tire. Think of it as a training regimen.  ;) Kidding aside, this bottle generator has worlds less drag than what I had in the Olden Days; you'll be fine.

Looking at the description, I see you'll need the "right-handed" model to fit the bracket on your Sherpa's fork (if I understand SJSC's definition of handedness in this case; best to check with them when ordering). It also comes without a bracket, so you'll need one that fits your fork's braze-ons. One of these would do, and SJSC could readily advise you which is best:
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/thorn-stainless-steel-sliding-dynamo-boss-for-thorn-forks-with-boss-type-2-l-shape-prod7051/
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/thorn-stainless-steel-sliding-dynamo-boss-for-thorn-forks-with-boss-type-1-t-shape-prod4672/
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/thorn-stainless-steel-sliding-dynamo-boss-for-thorn-forks-with-boss-type-3-l-shape-x-long-prod19581/

Going this route makes a lot of sense, jags, and you'll still have the headlight and taillight for later if you wish to go with a dynohub of some sort.

One thing I always did with a bottle generator was make a little fender or mudguard to shield the spray from the roller when riding in wet weather. They're easy to make out of sheet aluminum, and some makers have them in plastic as well. Lots of shops seem to have something of the sort kicking around in their parts bins. They're really only needed if you consistently have dark, rainy, nighttime commutes as I did for many years. For regular use, you'd be fine with just the plain bottle gen.

Hope this helps. If you have more questions, give a shout.

Best,

Dan.

rualexander

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Re: dynamo advice please
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2012, 08:12:31 pm »
The Axa Nano Plus light is definitely worth considering, details on http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4121.msg19770#msg19770
I haven't been able to test it's actual lighting capabilties yet as it hasn't been dark enough at this time of year but I used it in Ireland on holiday recently and it performed well for charging phone etc through it's built in usb port. Roughly I could charge my motorola defy phone at a rate of about 20% per 10 miles, so 40 miles would put an 80% charge into the phone. I will update my review on the other thread shortly.
I did have the light on on a really wet and dull day on a busy road, and could feel a slight resistance from it but not too bad, more noticeable when freewheeling really. I couldn't feel any resistance when the light was off and the usb port was charging the phone.

jags

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Re: dynamo advice please
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2012, 08:13:33 pm »
excellent Dan thanks a million.

jags

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Re: dynamo advice please
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2012, 08:17:32 pm »
thanks lads ;)

jags

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Andre Jute

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Re: dynamo advice please
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2012, 11:22:15 pm »
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/busch-and-muller-lumotec-iq-cyo-r-plus-40-lux-headlight-with-bracket-prod22818/

is this the correct one DAN.

Dan will make his own reply.

I own both the original, first series BUMM IQ Cyo lamps, the 60 lux "racer" version without a reflector, and the 40 lux version with the reflector, and of the two I much prefer the reflector version. For practical purposes, both have tremendous reach and are suitable for fast riding on pitch-black roads but the 40 lux version has more sidespill close to the bike than the 60 lux version, which is extremely useful for positioning the bike on unlit roads and lanes where you want to see the ditch, and even on the darker streets where you need to see the pavement edge, and the car door opening into your path before you hit it.

The BUMM IQ Fly has the same optics as the Cyo and is a spot less expensive. All models Fly have a reflector, and the standoff mount is built in.

Now it gets complicated. There is a second series of BUMM IQ lamps, in which BUMM buggered around with the optics, and buggered them up. I have the IQ Fly from the second series, again the same optics as the second series Cyo. It has a distinct and seriously disturbing hotspot and BUMM has given you nothing in return, certainly not a wider throw of light.

I would therefore advise you to see if you can get a new old stock (NOS) first series Cyo R (the official name of the 40 lux reflector model). It is useful to have the Plus, which has a built-in capacitor for a very reassuring standlight. Or, less expensive, a first series Fly. In each lamp there's a special, switchless version for sidewall dynamos, in theory cheaper but probably not discounted as it is rarer, so you may as well buy whatever is cheapest, including the nominally most expensive model, the Senso Plus, and just switch out the facilities you don't use until you get a dynamo wheel.

You can see the Cyo/Fly 40 lux light pattern at http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLINGbuildingpedelec6.html You will see the hotspot in the photographs and how narrow the throw is in the lanes. Also how little sidespill there is from the lamp with the MOST sidespill... Notice how in the photograph with striped speed bump the fence the road worker put up, literally inches from the edge of the light, is not lit.

***

The Cyo in its day, despite these shortcoming, was the best lamp you could buy. That is not necessarily true after they bolloxed the optics. If you can't find an NOS first series Cyo, I would advise you to pay serious attention to the Philips SafeRide, which is commonly considered a better lamp than the current series IQ Fly/Cyo. The problem with the Philips is that it is outrageously expensive. But perhaps you can find one discounted on the net.

Some beamshots here but be sure you're looking at the lamp you're buying, not a different lamp of the same name... http://www.fietsersbond.nl/de-fiets/onderdelen/verlichting/krachtige-koplampen-test-2011/philips-saferide-led-dynamoversie Of the SafeRide the tester concludes "Verreweg de beste lamp om onder alle omstandigheden mee the fietsen." -- "By far the best lamp to cycle with under all circumstances." From the beamshots, i particularly like the amount of sidespill -- you could ride offroad on a single goat track with this lamp, and not come a cropper, as you're sure to with the Cyo/Fly narrow/far paradigm. Also beamshots of the Axa Nano, recommended further up this thread for its USB port; I don't find its beam all that impressive in this company.

Andre Jute

PS If you're buying a Cyo, order the best light bracket in the business, B&M's 471LH, at the same time to save carriage. This is an unbreakable nylon bracket (not "plastic" as SJS has it!), taller than normal so the light shines even over fat tyres from 47mm up without any dead spots.
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/b-and-m-light-bracket-in-plastic-long-471lh-prod22450/ Standard equipment on Utopia, to whose specification it was designed. This bracket damps vibration most effectively and has channeled wire routing.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2012, 11:39:36 pm by Hobbes »

rualexander

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Re: dynamo advice please
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2012, 11:41:28 pm »
..... Also beamshots of the Axa Nano, recommended further up this thread for its USB port; I don't find its beam all that impressive in this company.

Andre Jute

I think those beamshots for the Nano are for the older 40 lux version, the newer version is 50 lux.

jags

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Re: dynamo advice please
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2012, 11:52:46 pm »
Andre,it's unbelievable how much knowledge yourself and Dan has on all things bikes.
thanks indeed for your advice ,i'm in no big hurry to buy but i do like to know what works ,i hate buying stuff thats labelled as the bees knees only to find its crap .
i'll hunt around for the older model maybe sjs has one hidden away  ;)
anyway thanks again .

jags

il padrone

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Re: dynamo advice please
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2012, 01:06:10 am »
An excellent selection of comparable beam-shots for several models of dynamo headlights can be found at Peter White Cycles


This is the B&M IQ Cyo R



I'd actually prefer the Supernova E3 Pro Asymmetrical (asymmetrical refers to it having a beam horizon, so doesn't dazzle oncoming drivers/riders)

Danneaux

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Re: dynamo advice please
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2012, 01:49:51 am »
Hi jags!

Sorry I missed your query; I was out walking five miles along the river, getting soaked to the skin in the heavy rain and loving every moment of it. The Canada Goose babies are now past the cute stage of development and stuck at Ugly, but are lovable nonetheless. The neighbor's pleasant wolf-hybrid puppy gave a lusty howl and pressed against the fence of his dog-run as I walked by, and I could count the salmon swimming in the clear, green water around the footings of the Owosso Bike Bridge. I've outsourced maintenance of my 25-geocache trapline, and they're coming along nicely for the new owner. A good day to check on the ripening wild blackberries. There should be a good crop come August, and that will make for some tasty "soppy" -- berry juice and pulp strained through cheesecloth, then frozen. Nothing better over waffles and ice cream during the dark days of winter, especially if warmed in the microwave before pouring. Add a little chocolate syrup to the mix and you're in heaven. It is also very nice added to a cup of hot cocoa or coffee if so inclined, and some teas as well.

As for headlight recommendations, Andre has done a wonderful job making a case for the older IQ Cyo R Senso Plus if you can find one. To my great dismay, I got one of the later models, whose previously perfect beam has been spoiled by an unfortunate "hot-spot" that draws the eye to center. Having ridden next to my Dutch friend's early IQ Fly through The Netherlands' Green Heart and the length of the Hoge Veluwe well past park curfew, I thought mine would look the same, but no. Some idiot at B&M diddled the reflector, just as Andre said.

Still, it is a very decent light. Abnormally white and very bright, the perfect warning device for facing oncoming traffic when cranked upward a smidge, and the nighttime light isn't as objectively bad as it sounds unless you've seen the earlier model and lusted after same. If you've had any experience with the earlier model, your heart won't rest easy till that wonderful beam pattern is recaptured in some way. In slight compensation, I'm given to understand the newer models with the horrid 5-facet reflectors (mine) have more reliable electronics. Early Cyos failed with alarming regularity given their cost.

If you would someday like to go for a dynohub, then I suggest you go for the light with all the bells and whistles -- again, as Andre also mentioned -- even if you don't use them all now with the bottle dynamo. This means the reflector (standard with the "R" model as is the "nearfield" beam), the 3-way switch -- On/Senso/Off, where a small photocell switches the light on automatically when light levels drop, and of course the Plus designation (also standard for this light), that uses a capacitor to keep the light burning at a reduced level for about 4.5 minutes after stopping. Nice when stopped at intersections and for fiddling with your keys at the shed door. Just avoid the model with the daytime-running-lights. It has not tested well and the one example I saw was awful in operation both day and night.

Differing from Andre, I found the included heavy-gauge stainless wire mount to be excellent for Sherpa, provided I used a spacer to clear the lower cup of the FSA Orbit XL headset. I also bought the nylon mount and found it would have been perfect for a Nomad's rounded crown face, but not for Sherpa's flat one.

Pete's photos (referenced from Peter White's site) do an excellent job showing the beam pattern of the light. The only caution I would add is to note (exposure aside) they are taken on a gravel road, which makes the beams appear brighter than on most pavement. In my experience so far, the effective brilliance of my IQ Cyo R Senso Plus depends greatly on the road surface. It shows up most brightly on gravel and grass, less so on aged concrete, and much, much less than shown in the photo when lighting wet blacktop/chipseal/asphalt. To be fair, this is a criticism of all vehicular lighting and includes automobiles (and my favorite kind of lighting, that intended for ProRally and WRC use, which is now almost exclusively based on HID systems).

Good observation from Pete: An asymmetrical beam includes a horizontal cutoff to prevent blinding oncoming drivers. My version of the IQ Cyo has this as well, but not all bike lights do. Excellent choices and suggestions, all.

Best,

Dan.


Andre Jute

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Re: dynamo advice please
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2012, 02:22:53 am »
I think those beamshots for the Nano are for the older 40 lux version, the newer version is 50 lux.

Yeah, that's why I mentioned being sure you're looking at the lamp you're buying, not some other lamp under the same name. Manufacturers would do us all a favour by labelling their goods more clearly, as in "Model III, 2012". -- AJ

Relayer

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Re: dynamo advice please
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2012, 09:27:21 am »
One thing I always did with a bottle generator was make a little fender or mudguard to shield the spray from the roller when riding in wet weather. They're easy to make out of sheet aluminum, and some makers have them in plastic as well. Lots of shops seem to have something of the sort kicking around in their parts bins. They're really only needed if you consistently have dark, rainy, nighttime commutes as I did for many years. For regular use, you'd be fine with just the plain bottle gen.

Getting back to dynamos briefly, I hated the bottle dynamo I tried out because of the spray blowing back to hit me in the face.  jags, given the climate in your part of the world, I think you would most definitely need a mudguard/shield as described by Dan if you were to go the bottle route.  

Keep on saving up for the hub dynamo.   ;)
« Last Edit: June 24, 2012, 09:34:33 am by Relayer »

rualexander

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Re: dynamo advice please
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2012, 10:32:03 am »
Dymotec 6 is around ?50 from SJSC, you can get a wheel with shimano dynohub for not much more than that from some of the German shops, e.g. rose have one for 80 euros including postage. Not sure what wheel size you need though, that one is a 700c wheel.
Alternatively the Dymotec 6 is available for half the sjsc price from Germany.

jags

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Re: dynamo advice please
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2012, 12:17:39 pm »
thanks again lads to be honest i would be more than happy with any of those lights shown.
i now might just pop over to rose bikes and have a look at those shimano hubs on the 700c wheel stick that on my raleigh..
last things lads honest how do you go about making a mudguard for the dynamo i'm totally confused on this one  ::) ;D pic's please.