Author Topic: For information and debate  (Read 6622 times)

in4

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For information and debate
« on: May 31, 2012, 01:31:26 pm »
Take a look at the ten cycling items here, as recommended by The Independent newspaper.
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/green-living/the-10-best-cycling-gear-7805011.html?action=gallery&ino=1

My eyes water at the price of this stuff!

JWestland

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Re: For information and debate
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2012, 09:29:12 pm »
A backpack that doesn't contact your back directly is nice though, sweating running of my back commuting with ine, so can very well be worth the extra. My dad has one.

Merino wool has a very good name, it will not go smelly and insulates very well. The boyfriend has a top in it he won't part with even though it's got about 10 holes by now and half of the left arm is gone due to a fall, that must say something... ;)

I would say it's all not too expensive, bar the jersey, but maybe that's my shopping style. I buy expensive items in sale, trusting they will last longer. North Face has a good value I believe, I just went total snob and got a Gore jacket in the sale  ;D
And a second hand Thorn now that we are on spending money for kit that lasts...and lasts...and lasts..  :P

Got a £40 waterproof backpack and guess was the back is getting loose at the seams...for heavy use items (mine is used 4 times a week commuting often bulging from laptop, food for work, training clothes etc...) in my experience you can't beat spending a few quid more.

Though the local LIDL/ALDI can do good kit at a super price, but the question is always: Do you get up early enough :P (and some stores get less stock)
Pedal to the metal! Wind, rain, hills, braking power permitting ;)

Danneaux

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Re: For information and debate
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2012, 06:51:57 am »
Hi All!

Ooh, nice find, Ian!  Fun stuff.

My impressions...open for debate, of course! Everyone is different, and what works well for one might not for another...

1) Backpack. I commuted with one for the better part of a decade before swearing it off. A nicely foam-padded back kept the sharp-pokies out of my kidneys, but the weight took a toll on my shoulders and my back was always wet from sweat. If I can manage it, I won't wear a backpack while riding again. However (in the "never say never" category!) I could see using a pannier that doubles as a backpack off-bike, as offered by Ortlieb ( http://www.ortlieb.co.uk/back-vario-ql3.html )...if I could figure a way to match it with one on the other side of the rack. Riding an unevenly-distributed load eventually gets my back. That said, nothing beats a small day-pack for carrying loads while leaving hands free. The ultimate solution might lie in a backpack that attached firmly and securely to the rear rack-top. Yeah! That'd do for me.

2) Dry Lube. Just the ticket for many who have had better luck with it than I. Pete from Australia (aka Il Padrone, "the master") has gotten me on the Purple Extreme ( http://www.purpleextreme.com/ ) track, and so far I like it. Good on ya, Pete!).

3) Casual-looking cycling shorts. I always wear my padded-bottom black lycra shorts when "riding with intent", but when I have to wear casuals, I go with my ExOfficio Amphi shorts, with built-in brief so they double as swimming trunks that launder with hand soap in a motel sink and dry in minutes in summer weather. They even have a nifty inner key pocket and webbing straps at the bottom of the legs to prevent ballooning in the water or when riding a recumbent. The pockets and brief are mesh for quick drainage of trapped water after a swim. USD$20 on sale as a last-season's closeout, yay! Of course, like many Good Things, they are no longer made (replaced with the de-contented Nio Amphi edition http://www.exofficio.com/products/details/mens-nio-amphi-short ). Prolly 'cos the originals were perfect and lasted forever.

4) Full fingers on summer cycling gloves seem a little anomalous to me. I prefer my half-fingered padded gloves (Pearl Izumi via a Chinese eBay seller whose goods might not really be authentic when the reference retail is USD$35 and his price is $12 postpaid?) for summer and my Danneaux-modded 1981 Early Winters ( http://www.oregonphotos.com/Early-Winters-1.html ) Gore-Tex Lobster-Claw 3-fingered gauntlet overmitts for wet, cold, or wet-cold weather, atop the summer PI gloves, of course!

5) Satchel/messenger bag. Ideal for many, I've foresworn them thanks to a grisly memory from my long-ago uni days, when I witnessed a young woman wearing one while riding. She was a bit careless and didn't cross-sling it diagonally across her body. The result? It swung forward and jammed between the front tire and the near fork blade. She rotated neatly around the locked front wheel and swallowed most of her teeth. I arrived in time to pick up several of them and drop them in a small carton of milk I'd just bought for lunch (the proper way to preserve separated teeth till they can be replanted). I couldn't do much for the broken nose or cheekbone, but walked her and the bike to the hospital emergency room a half-block away, then turned the bike over to her friends for safekeeping. Every time I see one of these things, I see a broken young woman. Irrational, I know, but there ya go. Ladies' shoulder bags can do the same thing, and you don't see me using one of those, either.

6) Lightweight jersey. Ideal; I have some light summer jerseys, and they really do make a difference wrt air flow. My recent purchase of two long-sleeved neon high-viz yellow-green jerseys are made of like stuff, have an SPF 50+ sun-block rating, and feel cooler than nothing at all, passing the breezes while wicking me dry. Mine were a sale item at 46% reduction here: http://www.nashbar.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=524336&storeId=10053&catalogId=10052&langId=-1 Zipper pull is on the "wrong" side and the zipper separates if you open it like a jacket, so don't. It still works fine if you consider it to be simply a really long-zipped neck opening and makes for easy on/off by pulling over the head. So bright, these make the house walls glow when I stand near near them. Wearable alone or over another jersey.

7)  Helmet with detachable visor. An individual choice; some always wear 'em (me), some never do, and others kinda-sorta-sometimes might, depending. I prefer a lighter, more swoopy design than the one pictured, and have had terrible luck with visors. I have a small, narrow noggin, and the best-fitting most-comfortable and coolest helmet I've ever used is the Euro-market Bell Alchera, sold in the States with a visor as the Bell Influx. I liked the Alchera so much I bought two in different colors (one red, the other bloonwite [blue and white]) so I could wash and dry one and ride the other. Like having a Ghisallo at a bargain rate...that actually fits. USD$29 and $49 respectively, on sale. More (or less) now: http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/SearchDisplay?storeId=10053&catalogId=10052&langId=-1&cn1=&gast=alchera&URL=CatalogSearchResultView&searchTerm=alchera

8 ) Kryptonite EvoLite lock and cable set. I love the secure Evo2000 Kryptonite sent me free as compensation for the Bic pen-openable model I bought. Lacking only the hanging tang, it is otherwise identical to the one pictured, and free is hard to beat. Combined with my AXA Defender ring-lock, plug-in AXA cable, and a set of Atomic-22 security skewers and appropriate steerer-cap bolts, I'm set. Oh! and the motion-detecting security alarm on the seatpost.

9) Trigger-spray bike cleaner.  I have good luck treating my shiny-finish frames with a co-polymer lotion intended as a post-wax gloss-enhancer on show cars. Any dirt that gets on the bike after treatment just wipes off with a damp cloth or slides off under a stream of water.  Won't work on Sherpa's matte finish, so will use a gentle, phosphate-free detergent. Don't forget common hair shampoo, which has no phosphates that would otherwise pit and discolor raw aluminum (i.e. rim sidewalls). Gentle, safe, cheap stuff without conditioner at the Dollar Store (baby shampoo is best)...and you really deserve a sweet-smelling bike, right?

10) Kevlar-belted Conti road tires. I'm a reluctant belted-tire convert, still somewhat unconvinced of their ultimate worth, but since flats always happen at the worst times...why not? The early models I tried when they were first introduced in the early 1980s were atrocious and often suffered from tread separations that were worse than the flats they were supposed to prevent. They got that straightened out, but rolling resistance went through the roof, and they felt like pedaling lead hoops through deep mud on a foam mattress. That seems to be largely addressed, so I no longer have an excuse except for grousing about the extra rotational mass. I do wish my Schwalbe Duremes would survive the steel belt shrapnel from exploded truck tires, but the little wires go through the tread and belt like a hot knife through butter. These things are the bane of highway shoulder-travelling tourists, but the belts have gotta help compared to the alternative and the problem really doesn't happen very often. Once, so far, so I can't complain.

So, there you have it; my two cents, adjusted for inflation.

All the best,

Dan. (who prefers "frugal" to "tight" or "cheap")
« Last Edit: June 01, 2012, 08:23:53 am by Danneaux »

Relayer

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Re: For information and debate
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2012, 09:23:03 am »
My take on the items listed ...

1) Backpack: I don't mind walking with one, but for cycling I always want to carry anything on the bike rather than on me (like Andy Blance).  I can see merit in using a backpack for a short commute, but that doesn't apply to me.

2) Dry Lube: doesn't cut it in our wet climate in Scotland, Finish Line Cross Country wet lube please.

3) Baggy shorts: I am a bit of a cycling chameleon, with drop bars and skinny tyres I like to wear lycra cycling gear (mostly Gore bike wear), but on the RST I tend to go more casual and wear The North Face Levada baggy shorts, sometimes with an outdoor (TNF Sequoia) shirt ... looks civilised for cafe stops and lots of pockets for carrying stuff.

4) Full finger summer gloves: I think these are for mountain bikers to protect their fingers when they fall off?  I wear Specialized BG track mitts in summer.

5) Satchel/messenger bag: never needed or owned one, same principles as backpack for me.

6) Lightweight jersey: I have never seen Rapha gear in the flesh so to speak, I own Gore lycra jerseys with windstopper fronts, which are definitely not cheap!

7) Helmet with detachable visor: I own a helmet, but fall into the "kinda-sorta-sometimes might, depending" category Dan describes, I tend to wear traditional cycle racing trade style cotton caps.

8 ) Kryptonite lock: I own an aged Squire u-lock which only gets used for bike storage at home.  I carry a cable lock since I only ever leave my bike unattended outside a bike shop, or outside a cafe or garden centre when partaking tea and cakes - I consider these low-risk situations.

9) Trigger spray bike cleaner: I have one of these kicking around somewhere, but I tend to use the same stuff I got for the car.

10) Kevlar belted conti road tyres: DEFINITELY! I rode many miles on Conti Top Touring tyres, the original and best, I have a pair of NOS in my loft awaiting my return to sanity and reversion from 26" wheels/tyres back to 700 x 32.  Where's that Club Tour brochure again?  ;)

I don't mind paying for premium quality, items that last as Jawine said.  I admit [but not to Mrs Relayer] that I do probably spend too much on cycling products, but it's a hobby and I find it fascinating.

Cheers.

Jim   (now got 'Living in the Past' by Jethro Tull going on in my head)
« Last Edit: June 01, 2012, 09:54:25 am by Relayer »

Relayer

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Re: For information and debate
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2012, 09:56:45 am »
Merino wool has a very good name, it will not go smelly and insulates very well. The boyfriend has a top in it he won't part with even though it's got about 10 holes by now and half of the left arm is gone due to a fall, that must say something... ;)

It says he's waiting for you to buy him a new one!    :P

JWestland

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Re: For information and debate
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2012, 11:33:20 am »
Second the need for Finish Line Wet Lube, dry stuff won't do it here either

Well, he didn't get a new one yet cos he doesn't like any other ones he's seen! You'd think a black long sleeve Merino jersey is easy to find but...

And they say women are fussy with clothes... :P

Pedal to the metal! Wind, rain, hills, braking power permitting ;)

triaesthete

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Re: For information and debate
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2012, 11:51:11 am »

"Dan. (who prefers "frugal" to "tight" or "cheap")"

Or as they say in Yorkshire Dan, "careful".


Cheers
Ian

Danneaux

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Re: For information and debate
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2012, 03:18:56 pm »
Great choices and reasons, everyone (except now *I* can't stop hearing the Tull's LITP...darned melody is stuck in my head...).

I'm starting to see hi-viz, neon yellow-green cycling gloves showing up on local commuters. They sure do the job for hand signals (all kinds), and some also sport retro-reflective tape on the backs for night use. I finally tracked down which local shop sells them and came away disappointed. They are full-fingered, have mush for palm padding, and are (still reeling from the figure) sixty US dollars!

Or, I could drop by the construction equippage and safety store and pick up the same thing meant for road workers and costing about half: http://www.esafetystore.com/KeywordGroupSearch/Keyword/hivisglovestock

Even these are less and look very nice indeed for cooler months:
http://www.probikekit.com/us/sealskinz-ultra-grip-hi-vis-cycling-gloves-full-finger.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=base&utm_campaign=google_base_usd

Wishing I could find the same locally in a half-fingered roadie's glove with decent padding for about the same cost or just a little more than "regular" biking gloves. May have to drop by The Rain Shed ( http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=the+rain+shed&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CG0QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.therainshed.com%2F&ei=hczIT5j6IozrggfDr4SDAQ&usg=AFQjCNH9GMcbIBUehKVkgXB7f7O_-mpJkw&cad=rja ) on my next riding loop through Corvallis and see if I can pick up some hi-viz lycra to sew on the backs of my current gloves.

Pearl Izumi has 'em too; may have to go mail-order, where it is often tough to find good gloves the first go-round 'cos you can't try them on:
http://www.performancebike.com/bikes/Product_10052_10551_1111089_-1___000000

Best,

Dan. (who really likes the "careful" appellation; thanks Ian!).

JWestland

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Re: For information and debate
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2012, 04:18:28 pm »
We say "as tight as a duck's backend here  ;D

Dan: I had sealskin watertight gloves, they were very poor as they stopped the water going in, but the outside stayed wet so my fingers ended up freezing cold anyway :( I recommend checking reviews on their items first.

Gore Tex (or a similar waterproof material) gloves are the best choice, expensive, but you get 50% off deals in online stores. At least here in the UK.

A cheap hi-vis option is indeed construction workers kit. Put on a £5 hi-vis top and you don't need to look like a reflective lemon during the times you don't need hi-vis like...day :)

Nothing wrong with being frugal, more money for Thorn kit :P
Pedal to the metal! Wind, rain, hills, braking power permitting ;)

in4

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Re: For information and debate
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2012, 05:05:34 pm »
Another thumbs down for the Sealskinz gloves here. I've had two pairs of the winter waterproof ones and they are truly lamentable. I wear substantial gloves all year round to protect my piano-playing digits and liken the Sealskinz to sealed plastic bags. I don't recall them being particularly cheap either. Avoid.

Danneaux

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Re: For information and debate
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2012, 05:36:14 pm »
Thanks for the "-2" on the SealSkinz gloves. The things I buy have to really work in practice, and cost is a factor. I don't mind paying more if the stuff works and lasts awhile. Haven't tried SealSkinz products, but keep reading mixed reviews...

These data points really help, especially as they are based on personal experience; thanks!

The 30+ year-old Gore-Tex overmitts are still going strong, so I may as well keep them.

Best,

Dan. (who might never play the piano again...having never played to begin with. Greatly admiring those who can and do!)

triaesthete

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Re: For information and debate
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2012, 06:50:36 pm »
If you don't like cold hands, ride in all weathers and like a cost effective product you have to try Buffalo mitts. Only £20 a pair!

 http://www.buffalosystems.co.uk/dp16rollover.htm

Amazingly durable for the weight, wring them out when wet, suprisingly easy to ride in. If it's really "minging" weather wear two (stepped sizes) or use British army surplus goretex arctic overmitts on top.

Easy to carry "just in case".

I have extensively field tested these and even in the Pennines where it often manages to be subzero AND wet!! with ripping winds they work well. No glove made is waterproof and these don't pretend or need to be.

I get mine from http://www.needlesports.com/Catalogue/Technical-Clothing/Shell/Buffalo/DP-Mitts-BUF-MIT

May there be many happy pianists and brain surgeons amongst you,
Ian
« Last Edit: June 01, 2012, 06:53:02 pm by triaesthete »

peter jenkins

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Re: For information and debate
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2012, 09:33:38 am »
Ground Effect does good merino tops.

http://www.groundeffect.co.nz/product-detail-SUB-MER.htm

I think all of their gear presents good value and is worth a try if you haven't already.

heers,

pj

JWestland

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Re: For information and debate
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2012, 02:12:16 pm »
Tx, I'll pass it on but it has a stripe down the side and he's really fussy so... :P
Pedal to the metal! Wind, rain, hills, braking power permitting ;)

richie thornger

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Re: For information and debate
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2012, 04:23:09 pm »
Whilst I am more than happy to try out the delights of ebay products from Hong Kong and like to pop my head in the pound shop every so often, I definitely end up getting the good stuff in the end if you need to rely on it to perform.
I always try and buy second hand because you can usually sell it on for what you pay for it.
If someone can point me to an alternative to Rapha that looks as good and is as well made but DOES NOT LOOK LIKE CYCLE CLOTHING I'll be at it like a shot.
I like riding bikes but I hate looking like a cyclist, but 6 hours a day in the saddle requires clothes that do the job. So for now Rapha is the best I can find.
No matter how good that ground effect gear is it just looks like ALL other cycling gear. Not for me I'm afraid. At least the Rapha has got a bit of a retro vibe about it. But yes it is ridiculously expensive. So were my Gore Fusion GT AS waterproofs. Some of the very few things I actually bought new. Got a 1/3rd off though:) Easily the best technical clothes I have ever owned. How a jacket and trousers can breath when done up, but a cheapy one, with vents from armpit to waist and the main zip open leaves me dripping in sweat, I don't know.
But with a life time guarantee, at least they put their money where their mouth is.While we are talking overpriced clothing I'll have to vote for Assos Bib shorts as well.
Going on a multi year tour makes it a lot easier to justify buying the best as you will be wearing it every single day.
For balance I'm also taking a couple of Decathlon sportwool tshirts, a tenner each:)
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal labotomy