Author Topic: eBay: Audax, Voyager kidback tandem, Nomad Mk2 w/Rohloff  (Read 8790 times)

Danneaux

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eBay: Audax, Voyager kidback tandem, Nomad Mk2 w/Rohloff
« on: May 15, 2012, 05:40:43 AM »
None mine. As usual, caution advised with eBay sales; there's been a few sketchy ones lately and more than one recently proved stolen.

Audax. Red. Reynolds 853 full touring spec, Stronglight, XY/Tiagra/Mavic. Seller says bike will be cleaned and fully serviced (?), size 20.5 seat tube. Very sparse description for an enthusiast's bike; I would suggest caution.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Thorn-Reynolds-853-Touring-Bike-/160801027821?pt=UK_Bikes_GL&hash=item25707cf6ed

Voyager kidback derailleur tandem; CA 1990's. Seller says, :The tandem frame sizes are;- Front Downtube 47cm 18½", Front Toptube 546mm 21½".  Back Downtube 29cm 11½", Back Toptube 546mm 21½".  By raising or lowering both handlebars and seat pins, this flexible tandem fits both myself, 6'+, and my wife 5'2".  The back fitted our children aged from 3 to 14." In used condition with plenty of marks and scratches, set up for touring with a rack and mudguards, V-Brakes and Dia Compe brake levers for improved stopping power.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tandem-Thorn-Voyager-Kiddyback-/230787958300?pt=UK_Bikes_GL&hash=item35bc08c61c

Nomad Mk2 (Rohloff). Listed as "18in frame". Full touring spec and ready to go with Shimano dynohub/Lumotec plus BioLogic charging system. Seller says frame built up from new, unused parts sourced via SJS Cycles, claimed less than 200 miles and excellent condition. Thorn rear rack, Surly Nice front.  Located in Norwich and seller invites viewing; pickup only. There has to be a story behind this one.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/thorn-nomad-mk2-touring-bike-rohloff-hub-shimano-mavic-rims-scram-fsa-/290712811836?pt=UK_Bikes_GL&hash=item43afd5793c

Best,

Dan.

in4

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Re: eBay: Audax, Voyager kidback tandem, Nomad Mk2 w/Rohloff
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2012, 08:57:11 AM »
Quite illogical I know but there is something about that MK2 Nomad that makes me pause and question its provenance. Maybe its the grips or 'unusual' spec I don't know. Certainly won't be offering any of my 'folding' for it!

Danneaux

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Re: eBay: Audax, Voyager kidback tandem, Nomad Mk2 w/Rohloff
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2012, 02:15:36 PM »
Quote
...there is something about that MK2 Nomad that makes me pause and question its provenance...
Yeah, me too, Ian. I don't know what it is, but I feel unsettled about it, too. Perhaps it is the "too perfect" spec...why go to all the work to make the most expensive sort of build (at retail prices from SJSC on a frame rather than as a Thorn "package") and *then* offer it for...whatever...in the hope of getting paid-back? And after less than 200 miles' use?

Also, having gone to such detail and work, why not a more accurate description of frame size?

Yes, there's something going on here as a backstory. Perhaps it was made for a spouse who didn't like it...or something. It is the Something that bothers me. I agree, it just reads a little "off" somehow.

Best,

Dan.

in4

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Re: eBay: Audax, Voyager kidback tandem, Nomad Mk2 w/Rohloff
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2012, 07:14:05 PM »
Reflecting a little ( as one does!) I shall have to think rather carefully about how I word my Bike's 'For Sale' ad' Wouldn't want the good burghers of this parish thinking that Bill Sykes was within their midst!  :)

drazelt

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Re: eBay: Audax, Voyager kidback tandem, Nomad Mk2 w/Rohloff
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2012, 10:21:12 PM »
I have looked at this bike but dont know enough to make a decision,could you explain more about why you feel this is not quite right and what makes his an unusual spec.

tim

Danneaux

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Re: eBay: Audax, Voyager kidback tandem, Nomad Mk2 w/Rohloff
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2012, 10:47:17 PM »
Hi Tim,

I don't meant to cause undue alarm...all may indeed be well in this case, and I want to make clear I am not slandering the seller, who appears to be honest.

Mostly we're a little on edge because some recently stolen Thorns were offered for sale on eBay, and one was recovered only recently due to the actions of a persistent owner, some thoughtful and observant members on another forum, and the actions of the police.  I guess it is making us all look a bit more closely at recent postings.
Quote
...could you explain more about why you feel this is not quite right and what makes his an unusual spec...
This is indeed a wonderful-looking bike, with a dream spec of components.

Here is what seemed a little odd to me about it...

1) The seller took the most expensive route in building it up, starting with a bare frame and going for parts at retail, rather than going for the builder's package discount offered by Thorn in the form of a comparatively reduced price. Given that Thorn offers a number of levels of equipage -- all very complete -- it would have been far more cost-effective to have ordered one of those and then changed an item here and there. This bike shows it was a real labor of love and some real care and thought in the process, so the owner must know the bike intimately. Given this, it seems a bit strange he or she was so approximate on listing the sizing of the frame.

2) Having put so much time, effort, and money into a full-custom bike of this class, it is a little strange to sell it after only 200 miles. If it truly didn't fit, then it would make more sense to sell the frame off alone and replace it with another, transferring the parts collected for this one. It is not enough time for the owner to tire of it. Perhaps this was a labor of love that ended in a dream dashed when it didn't ride as the owner/builder expected. Perhaps it was built for a loved one who split, or the owner incurred some sort of injury that prevents riding this bike or at all. Maybe there was a financial reversal. Maybe a planned world tour didn't come off or someone died. The £1,500.00 starting bid would surely mean selling at a loss, but it will weed out the merely curious or hopeful and will result in serious bids.

I am sure an email to the seller would go far toward answering some of these questions. That's what I usually do when I have questions about an item's provenance or history. It is just one more piece of the puzzle for me to weigh.

Taken altogether and in light of the recently attempted turnovers of stolen merchandise, it just seemed a little off. It is unusual for a top-kit, full-custom Nomad Mk2 to be offered so soon after building with no explanation. Evidently others feel a bit hesitant or the starting bid seems high, as it has still received no bids at this time.

Offsetting all this is a stellar record with eBay (100% positive rating), both as a seller and buyer. The seller's ready offer of a viewing and direct pickup are both very encouraging.

 Perhaps this would be a good one to get in on after some careful thought.

Best,

Dan.

Relayer

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Re: eBay: Audax, Voyager kidback tandem, Nomad Mk2 w/Rohloff
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2012, 08:11:28 AM »
I have a theory about this Nomad ...

There was a black Nomad on eBay recently with Easton Monkey bars which caught my attention as I had wondered previously about these bars with a Rohloff shifter (I currently have Easton straight bars on my RST).  If memory serves me well the previous Nomad also had the same/similar grips, seat pack, dyno-hub and lamp (but fitted to the fork crown - the front rack is an addition).

It therefore seems to me that this bike could have been a recent eBay purchase, front rack added, but for whatever reason the new owner has decided to sell it on.  This would also explain the different font and writing style between the seller's description and the parts/components listing (maybe cut and pasted from the previous owner's listing?).

Problems with this theory are no feedback to evidence a previous sale, and the front rack is in the parts list.

however, it looks like a very very nice bike, if I was in the market for an expedition tourer I would go and take a look.

« Last Edit: May 16, 2012, 08:20:10 AM by Relayer »

Relayer

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Re: eBay: Audax, Voyager kidback tandem, Nomad Mk2 w/Rohloff
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2012, 12:47:59 PM »
UPDATE: my theory was correct, previous eBay listing reported here

http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3952.0

A bit more history in there too.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2012, 12:56:00 PM by Relayer »

Danneaux

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Re: eBay: Audax, Voyager kidback tandem, Nomad Mk2 w/Rohloff
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2012, 03:27:14 PM »
Very sharp-eyed and a good memory to boot, Jim!

It is indeed the same bike.

However, things get more murky...

Curious, I wrote the seller yesterday asking...
Quote
Hello! Please, can you tell me a little about why you are selling such a wonderful bicycle after so few miles? It seems tragic to part with such a labor of love so soon after it is complete. I might be a bit more comfortable making a bid if I knew a little about why it is going.... Thanks so much for your time. Best regards
...and received this is reply...
Quote
Hi, started building cycle last summer a little at a time, finished in feb. this year, unable to ride it now due to poor health.

Interesting! In the previous listing you found, this is what the seller said...
Quote
...All parts were bought brand new (not ordered as a whole bike from thorn) as i worked in the bike industry for 4 years and had access to some top mechanics so i was able to customise it to be perfect for purpose. Only parts that were not brand new with the bike are the fsa stem, pedals, and the chainring on the cranks (LOADS of life left in it)...
...and...
Quote
Bike is in near perfect, but selling as i just haven't had time to put the use in and moving house means space is at a premium.

As mentioned earlier, looks wonderful (even better this go-'round), but a little...odd.

Best,

Dan.

macspud

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Re: eBay: Audax, Voyager kidback tandem, Nomad Mk2 w/Rohloff
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2012, 03:29:03 PM »
They are very similar, though there are some differences too.

Thorn Expedition rear rack v Topeak rear rack.
Surly front rack v no front rack
172.5mm cranks v 175mm
Biologic recharge dynamo hub recharge v no recharge system

Everything else does seems identical

There was also no feedback from the original sale which you would definitely expect for a £2000 transaction?

The seller does have positive feedback.

It's a bit of a mystery Altogether and some more thorough investigation would have to be done before I'd buy what looks like a beautiful machine.

The thing that really makes me suspicious is that they both have the same cheap grips.

Regards,

Iain.

macspud

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Re: eBay: Audax, Voyager kidback tandem, Nomad Mk2 w/Rohloff
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2012, 03:35:35 PM »
As you say Dan,
Even nicer this time round.
What is it that makes you certain it's the same one?
I think it is too but I'm not 100%.

Danneaux

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Re: eBay: Audax, Voyager kidback tandem, Nomad Mk2 w/Rohloff
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2012, 03:55:09 PM »
Quote
What is it that makes you certain it's the same one?

Hi Iain,

There's a couple things, but right from the start...

1) Description unexpectedly close, esp. the reference to "200 miles" and the buildup from bare frame with new (mostly or in part) components sourced from bike shops/SJSC:
OLD
Quote
For sale is an almost new (less than 200 miles) Thorn Nomad touring bike with Rohloff 14 speed hub gear...All parts were bought brand new (not ordered as a whole bike from thorn) as i worked in the bike industry for 4 years and had access to some top mechanics so i was able to customise it
NEW
Quote
this bike was made very recently from brand new unused parts.most of which were bought from sjs cycles.it has covered less than 200 miles

2) "Starred" grips.

There's a few more things, but those stand out as being beyond any likely coincidence.

It is possible this is a sell-on by the buyer in the first auction.

I'm just not sure. That's what makes me uneasy and gets my "spidey-sense" going. Auctions should be more straightforward when one looks at them closely.

On the one hand, it looks so good...on the other...strange. That is why I feel uneasy about this listing. Kinda glad I have Sherpa and am not in the market, else I'd be caught on the horns of a dilemma to bid or not (local pickup requirement would have saved me...  ;) ).

All the best,

Dan.

JWestland

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Re: eBay: Audax, Voyager kidback tandem, Nomad Mk2 w/Rohloff
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2012, 05:32:36 PM »
Strange...

However my XTC didn't come with any history either, sometimes you get people selling on bikes that are just left by people that don't care about them. It's rare for Thorns, mine came from a shop with no history, no idea who owned it before, but it turned out to be sound.

More pictures in order though...very spare description and I would ask for dents etc history as it's 2004 or so model judging by decals :)
Just 200 miles? Really? Unless it was one that's ex-display from the vaults of SJS...as the decals are old style the same as my XTC!
Pedal to the metal! Wind, rain, hills, braking power permitting ;)

macspud

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Re: eBay: Audax, Voyager kidback tandem, Nomad Mk2 w/Rohloff
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2012, 05:50:57 PM »
Kinda glad I have Sherpa and am not in the market, else I'd be caught on the horns of a dilemma to bid or not (local pickup requirement would have saved me...  ;) ).

Yes, I would be caught in the horns of that dilemma but that the bike is way to small for me.

Regards,

Iain.

macspud

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Re: eBay: Audax, Voyager kidback tandem, Nomad Mk2 w/Rohloff
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2012, 06:28:58 PM »
I would ask for dents etc history as it's 2004 or so model judging by decals :)
Just 200 miles? Really? Unless it was one that's ex-display from the vaults of SJS...as the decals are old style the same as my XTC!

I don't think the Nomad II was launched until 2007.
You may be right about the decals though they are the same on the Nomads featured in the Nomad II brochure.
The Rohloff hub is certainly pretty recent.

Any recent Nomad II owners who'd like to clarify the question of decals?
« Last Edit: May 16, 2012, 06:31:26 PM by macspud »