Service interval of Rohloff's external clickbox

[Andre Jute]

And while I'm about it, the recommended service interval of the external clickbox (an optional extra on Thorn bikes) of 500km is ludicrous. I use Finish Line Teflon Grease and, inspecting the grease in the clickbox every 500km and finding it good, I've just changed it at 1400km, not because it was thinning or obviously tired, but to align that small service (toolless, undo one thumbscrew) with the major hub service which I also did today. It is possible the Rohloff argument is that there is no O-ring to seal the gubbins inside the clickbox, but the way I see it, the parts are so nicely machined, the interference fit is near enough watertight, the grease seals it, and anyway the visible moving parts are brass, therefore rust-free. To me it looks like another case of Herr Rohloff covering his ass against people who abuse their equipment.

Usual caveats apply -- my bike is lightly used, under favourable conditions. Maybe an offroad tourer who rides daily through hub-deep streams, and then powerwashes his bike every other day, needs to grease the clickbox every 500 miles.

Andre Jute
http://coolmainpress.com/ajwriting/

[AndrewC]

Be sure to undo & regrease the torx bolts that hold the clickbox together.  I didn't, and when I came to renew the shifter cables I had to drill them out.......

[Andre Jute]

Be sure to undo & regrease the torx bolts that hold the clickbox together.  I didn't, and when I came to renew the shifter cables I had to drill them out.......

Thanks, Andrew. The torx bolts on mine, bolted into the clickbox, are dipped into the grease for their exposed length which serves as locating guides for bringing the two halves of the EXT clickbox together. You reckon that isn't enough?

[AndrewC]

I bought my Nomad in mid 2007 and didn't touch the clickbox other than when removing the wheel. One of the cable adjusters snapped last year so I replaced them and the cables, but the torx bolts were unmovable.  Probably sensible to regrease them once a year or so. I did  mine yesterday.

[Andre Jute]

I bought my Nomad in mid 2007 and didn't touch the clickbox other than when removing the wheel. One of the cable adjusters snapped last year so I replaced them and the cables, but the torx bolts were unmovable.  Probably sensible to regrease them once a year or so. I did  mine yesterday.

Thanks, Andrew. I actually bought special-quality T20 bits from Witte in Germany to use on the Rohloff. First time the bits get some use. -- Andre Jute

[rafiki]

What is the maintenance procedure for the external box? I've Googled but haven't found any instructions.

[JimK]

Here is a Rohloff manual

http://www.rohloff.de/uploads/media/Service_en.pdf

which describes a service procedure - see picture 5 in section 2.

[rafiki]

Thanks for that Jim. From that picture it seems there is no need to open the box itself, just pull off the box complete and lubricate where indicated?

[JimK]

there is no need to open the box itself, just pull off the box complete and lubricate where indicated?

That's the way I interpret it, too!

[Andre Jute]

Thanks for that Jim. From that picture it seems there is no need to open the box itself, just pull off the box complete and lubricate where indicated?

The box comes off when you undo the thumbscrew. Wipe the old grease off both halves, squirt some new grease in the hollow part, put the box back, do the thumbscrew up, wipe around the outside -- I put in enough grease to squeeze out at all edges, reckoning that waterproofs it.

It goes faster if, before you take the klickbox off, you put the gearbox box in gear 14, where the klickbox goes back on most easily, with just a slight wriggle on the rotary control. (Also useful to remember if you ever have to remove the wheel, put it in gear 14 first.)

See also Andrew's post above about the two torque screws in the klickbox, heads visible inside the half that comes off; he reckons they should be greased. I haven't done it because my bike is lightly used and stored in a dry, warm place.

Andre Jute
A thirty-second service! Only from you Rohloff mechanic!

[Danneaux]

Hi Andre and All!

Today, I went the whole nine yards in lubing my EX shift-box today, removing the cable pulley and greasing from the inside-out. I used my preferred Phil Wood grease, a thin grease that does not thicken noticeably in cold weather.

I pondered this action for some time before taking it, as it exceeds Rohloff's lubrication recommendation. Though it would make future cable replacements more messy, I think the increased grease sealing will work in my favor at keeping talc-fine desert dust at bay. Greasing similar enclosures is standard automotive practice detailed in all my automotive factory service manuals. We shall see in practice how it works over time. I'm not endorsing the practice yet, but wanted to share it with you and will report later on the results with continued use. There will be enough time before my next big tour to clean the lot in a solvent tank and replace the cables before departure if it does not work well.

It proved to be a quick and easy ten-minute job including the photos. See: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4523.msg36175#msg36175 Caveats, tips, and photos at that linked gallery post.

If you don't wish to remove the pulley entirely as I did, it would be even faster to simply remove the two Torx screws that hold the cover, squirt in some grease, and bolt it back together while still on the hub. Part Two of the service would involve undoing the clickbox from the hub and squirting grease in from the back, as Andre has shown. I did both 'cos the cover/housing can rub on the spool on both sides and I wanted to minimize that and also ensure a full load of grease from the inside out.

My external click-box was innocent of any lubrication, and there were signs of friction between the pulley side and the case, an area that is now lubed. As a bonus, shifting feels more fluid and the box is effectively grease-sealed against the incursion of dust and moisture. I also put anti-seize on the Torx screws that hold the cover in place. Under my 30x magnifying loupe, they showed signs of incipient galling with some very small alu inclusion among the threads in several places. At six months, the anti-seize was timely.

As one last bonus, careful measurements showed the lubed cables will carry grease into the ends of the barrel adjusters, which should help minimize any friction and contact there as well.

Best,

Dan.

[stevendpclark]

Today, I went the whole nine yards in lubing my EX shift-box today, removing the cable pulley and greasing from the inside-out. I used my preferred Phil Wood grease, a thin grease that does not thicken noticeably in cold weather.

Interesting, I have done the same thing for the past two years on my Rohloff shift-box. Within the shift-box itself I coat everything with Finish Line grease (just coated, not filled to the extent I see within your picture). I also put anti-seize on the screws. On the outer side where the shift-box meets the actual Rohloff, I fill the entire hole with grease, push it onto the Rohloff and wipe away any excess.

I'm a tad curious though, what advantages would be had at filling the entire shift-box instead of just coating the parts in grease? Are you betting that the grease that is exposed to the talc-like playa will stay on the outer areas and not be mixed in with the other areas within the shift-box?

I pondered this action for some time before taking it, as it exceeds Rohloff's lubrication recommendation. Though it would make future cable replacements more messy,

I haven't had any issues so far with this. Normally a good wipe down of the parts every spring and then I shoot silicone lube within the liners. Everything is pretty clean after that and functioning 100% again.

Even with the brutal Quebec winters with all the salt and water, not much seems to get in the shift-box, yet I still think having everything coated with grease within the shift-box is the right way to go personally.

-Steven

[Andre Jute]

That bit's good Dan, about greasing the two screws in the clickbox itself without removing it or disassembling it. I'll look into that at the oil change that's coming up. Thanks! -- Andre Jute

[Danneaux]

Hi Steven!

Good to hear your thoughts on this, especially with your background riding that lovely orange Troll in winter-cold Quebec.

I'm a tad curious though, what advantages would be had at filling the entire shift-box instead of just coating the parts in grease? Are you betting that the grease that is exposed to the talc-like playa will stay on the outer areas and not be mixed in with the other areas within the shift-box?

Yes, that is my reasoning. For a number of years, I did automotive repair, and it is common practice to use grease to enhance the sealing of things such as steering boxes, etc. as well as for lubrication. Typically, here is some incursion of dirt at the margins, even with gaskets and seals. So long as the grease doesn't actively circulate internally, the fine debris is trapped in the grease, well away from meshing or rotating parts and bearing surfaces. With wear the grease breaks down into heavy oil around gears and rotating parts, leaving a thicker barrier of grease beyond. Hopefully, similar results will obtain here.

I figured if I coated the parts themselves (rather than filling the 'box), there would be a greater likelihood of talc-fine dust coating the parts directly, causing problems. Seemed better to either go completely dry...or completely greased rather than halfway.

I actually don't expect much to get inside the click-box; it is pretty well sealed. I did notice the grease squashed out around the centering barrels the adjusters screw into, and a bit came out where the cover met the housing, but none after I wiped it down. The cable housings on my Nomad are continuous from the grip-shifter, so there aren't many points for dirt or water to enter anyway.

After a number of shifts this afternoon, I unfastened the click-box and see the grease has migrated to the points recommended by Rohloff and looks much like Andre's photo of his own lubed click-box, but is otherwise contained within the unit.

I'm really looking forward to how this plays out over time. If no obvious drawbacks become apparent, then I think grease migration will take care of the regularly recommended Rohloff shift-box lubrication interval (but I will check periodically to be sure).

Best,

Dan.

[Danneaux]

That bit's good Dan, about greasing the two screws in the clickbox itself without removing it or disassembling it. I'll look into that at the oil change that's coming up. Thanks!

Andre, you could remove and replace the cover screws one at a time with no risk at all.

I was really glad to get some anti-seize on them. Their countersunk heads would make a real hash of trying to remove them if the threads truly seized in place. Worse, the chamfered countersinks are a secondary prime source for galling, so a dash of anti-seize in the wells wouldn't be amiss.

All the best,

Dan.