Hydration

[Rouleur834]

As we are enjoying a hot spell in the UK thoughts turn to hydration. There are so many options to choose from I am wondering who uses what? Hypertonic, isotonic, hypotonic, electrolytes only, electrolytes and energy, water. Most websites suggest water for rides of 90 minutes or less. That makes sense but when the temperature is mid 20s, or above, I feel thirsty when drinking plain water. That is possibly due to my diabetes. I am changing from more intense shorter rides to longer less intense outings. That would suggest a reduced requirement for energy from drinks, gels and bars. No need for instant sugar/carbs. That would avoid sugar spikes and suit me better.

I am probably looking at 3hr to 4hr rides. Any advice would be appreciated.

[martinf]

I just use water.

For long rides in very hot weather I drink between 4 and 8 litres of water in a day.

It might be better to use electrolytes on long distance rides in hot weather, but as I don't yet have any salt-related health issues I just consume more salt with my meals, to replace the salt lost in sweat. When I forget the extra salt, I tend to get muscle cramps.

For energy, I find starchy food (bread, chips, pasta, etc.) is better than sugary stuff like cakes.

[PH]

I only need water and that's often all I have. Sometimes I like to have other stuff, High5 Zero tablets, or cold Redbush lemon tea, sometimes I'll grab a cold can of pop from a garage.  I went through a phase of having flat coke mixed 50/50 with water, but it's hard to keep the bottle clean. The main thing is that you drink enough and if there's something that makes you more likely to do so, and does no harm, that's a good thing. Food and drink need to be considered together, I eat quite normally when out riding, so can drink likewise. 

[JohnR]

I'm a recent convert to electrolyte tablets. Yesterday I was out with a couple of friends for a slow 5 hour ride in unpleasantly warm (by UK standards) conditions. I swallowed 1/2 litre of water with an electrolyte tablet before starting and had the same with lunch but no electrolyte tablet with more water at the end. That was a mistake as I ended up with a slight headache which, for me, is a sign of being low on the essential salts.

[PH]

I'm a recent convert to electrolyte tablets. Yesterday I was out with a couple of friends for a slow 5 hour ride in unpleasantly warm (by UK standards) conditions. I swallowed 1/2 litre of water with an electrolyte tablet before starting and had the same with lunch but no electrolyte tablet with more water at the end. That was a mistake as I ended up with a slight headache which, for me, is a sign of being low on the essential salts.

Do I have this right:
5 hour ride, on 1 litre of fluid?
Wouldn't have made any difference to me what I was drinking that would have been nothing like enough, I'd have been suffering from that rather than lack of salts. 

[Danneaux]

Like Martin, I drink between 4 and 8 liters of water over the course of a hot 10-17 hour day in the saddle.

I have found on-road temperatures often exceed air temperatures due to heat absorbed/reflected by the surface (any fan of televised Formula One auto racing will see this when "track temperatures" are posted and compared to ambient air temps). For temperatures of 40-50°F, I "budget" 8.5l/day for direct rehydration and limited cooking. In my desert expeditions, I typically carry 26.5l, which is about a 3-day supply at that rate of consumption. All my bikes have bidons mounted on frame and/or steerer to carry 3l-6.5l. I sometimes carry an extra 1l bottle under the cap-top straps of each front Ortlieb SportPacker pannier or in Ortlieb's add-on bottle cages. Extra beyond that goes in a couple of 10l MSR Dromedary water bladders. The need to carry water (and the weight it adds) was a big reason why I bought my Nomad and my Extrawheel trailer, which I still use on longer trips away from water sources.

I mix up a single 1l bottle with electrolyte mix (Gatorade at half strength to cut the sugar content; sugar reduces water absorption) that I consume half to fully after every 2 bottles of water alone else I develop thigh and calf cramps. In Germany, Slovakia, Czechia, Croatia, Serbia, Romania and Bulgaria, it was not always possible to find electrolyte replacements at rural stores, so I substituted non-alcoholic beer or radler ("cyclist") beer (the kind I preferred was a mix of 60% lemonade and 40% non-alcoholic or low-alcohol beer -- yay, Gösser NaturRadler Alkoholfrei) on the good advice of a Bavarian friend. It worked as an electrolyte replacement of sorts and I suffered no cramps. I hit historic heat waves on both my outbound and return crossings of Romania and Serbija with road temperatures of 43°C by 08:30 and nighttime lows of 30.5. Food was not so much an issue as hydration.  While I avoided heat stroke, I did find myself in heat exhaustion when hills were added to the mix.

An awful lot depends on staying hydrated as it is hard to address a deficit. I drink on a schedule even if I don't feel thirsty and let urination frequency, quantity, and color be my guide, keeping output as close to clear as I can. It helps to take advantage of available cover from the sun and to reduce physical intensity when you can; I deliberately chose to walk some hills I could have pedaled for that reason. For me, wearing adequate sunscreen or sun-protective clothing makes a big difference in my endurance and perceived body temperature and affects my water consumption. Of course, time of day makes a big difference but it is not always possible to find shade at the hottest times.

Best,

Dan.

[JohnR]

Do I have this right:
5 hour ride, on 1 litre of fluid?
Wouldn't have made any difference to me what I was drinking that would have been nothing like enough, I'd have been suffering from that rather than lack of salts.

Add in what I drank before I left home to drive to the meeting point (probably another litre, the half litre (or was it one litre?) at the end of the ride and about 1/4 litre at about 3/4 of the way round. It was a leisurely ride (42 miles in a bit over 4 hours moving time) and the first 1/3rd wasn't unpleasantly hot. My omission was not having another electrolyte tablet in the after-ride drink. I did drink more than usual for the rest of the day but that could be due to the hot weather rather than residual dehydration.

[Aleman]

For me when I'm out on the road bike it's two 850ml Bottles of water each with a SiS Hydro tablet in. That'll see me going for a 50-60 mile 3-4 hour ride. I tend to have a recovery shake (not really needed) afterwards, which is proteins, energy and electrolytes. Longer rides / riding in hot weather then it's two 1L bottles with SiS Go Energy, and I will usually stop for additional water where possible.

Out on the tandem, it's a 1L bottle, and a 1.5L Nalgene, each. Mine with Sis Go Energy, stokers with Go Hydro. She doesn't drink enough, and often has left overs, that I may raid towards the end of the ride. Following a incident with heat exhaustion last year, I have taken the opportunity to put 500ml of Go Energy in the Nalgene bottles, and put them in the freezer at an angle. the remainder goes in before setting out, and I have cool drinks toward the end of the ride.

Not done any long tours for some time, but we are rarely too far off the beaten track, so water is usually available, mixed 50/50 with fruit juice.

[B cereus]

Water mostly suffices for me but I do supplement electrolytes on longer rides or in very hot weather.  I use  High 5 Zero tablets for convenience but a ˝ tsp of  sea salt added to a bidon of whatever you usually drink also works well. I usually alternate bidons of electrolyte with bidons of pure water. Salt can also be replaced through eating a normal diet and salty snacks such as crisps or salted peanuts are an obvious choice, bananas are a good source of potassium as well as supplying a useful energy boost.

[JohnR]

Yesterday (a bit cooler than Sunday) I did 70 miles split between 47 morning and 23 afternoon and used three electrolyte tablets (before, break and after) plus a recovery protein drink during the break (about 50 minutes). I had about 1.5 litres of liquid during the break which was more than sufficient because my bladder wanted emptying after about 1/2 hour of the 2nd ride. This morning I pedalled 23 miles and didn't bother with any electrolyte as the temperature rose from pleasant (18C) to warmish (23C) during the ride.

Individual hydration requirements will depend on temperature, body weight, bike load, effort, clothing (and hence natural cooling) and individual metabolism. Last year I went out on a 2 hour ride with my son-in-law in which I thought was a pleasant temperature and he was sweating. My average speed on a good day is 12 mph with an all-up weight (bike, rider and bagage) of around 85kg. I think I've got a fairly efficient metabolism as using a heart rate monitor nearly halves the calorie estimate of my Garmin Edge compared to the estimate without the monitor although Garmin's algorithm is questionable as http://bikecalculator.com/ isn't far away from from the Garmin number when using the HRM (my average for a ride is currently around 105 bpm which is about double my resting heart rate).

Temperature, as noted already, is a major factor but note that temperature measurement on a bike isn't easy. A computer exposed to the sunshine is being direct heated from the sun. I reckon that Garmin applied a fudge on my Edge 1030 by subtracting 3C from the measured value because, on a cloudy day, it reads about 3C low. I've also got a Garmin Tempe sensor fixed on the underside of the rack where it's shaded from direct sunshine and that appears to report temperatures 2C below the actual. Anyway, whatever the numbers, a sun-baked road (with heat radiated from the road surface) is much hotter than being in the shade even if the air temperature is similar.

[Rouleur834]

Thanks to all for the responses. A lot of interesting points such as the role of suncream and clothing. I think I had been influenced by the media machine that is associated with all things cycling. Is it just me or are websites and publications heavily skewed towards road racing and athletes? Before finding this forum I have struggled to find a source of useful, to my circumstances, information. Having read the replies I plan to switch from gels and sports bars to water, electrolytes (where needed) and real food. No doubt this will also help my diabetes and avoid the highs and lows of my blood glucose. Thanks again. Ray

[JohnR]

I see a role for the energy gels/ powders /bars for those occasions when I ride has been more demanding than usual. Relying on food alone can get the stomach accustomed to expecting more than is needed most of the time (with consequent putting on unwanted weight) but this risk can be reduced using snacks between meals.

[Matt2matt2002]

During my '18 (2018, I'm not that old..) tour in Ethiopia near the equator, with thermometer busting temperatures, I found Gastrolyte, HYDRAlyte, Pedialyte and Repalyte in village pharmacies.
Used for infant fluid loss, they soon had me back on the road.
Just a thought.

Best

Matt

[mickeg]

...I think I had been influenced by the media machine that is associated with all things cycling. Is it just me or are websites and publications heavily skewed towards road racing and athletes? ...

...Having read the replies I plan to switch from gels and sports bars to water, electrolytes (where needed) and real food. No doubt this will also help my diabetes and avoid the highs and lows of my blood glucose. Thanks again. Ray

Any website that talks about racing or competitive riding for time will have an orientation towards carb replenishment while riding.

If I have one gel packet, the next day my blood sugar is still high.  I have not had a gel packet in years.  I do not use insulin, only have an insulin resistance problem.

I do not add anything to my water, except sometimes on a bike tour I might add a mild zero calorie flavoring.

On longer rides I often carry a small amount of a salty snack food, that is my electrolytes, but if you prefer some science based tablet, go for it.  Over time I have seemed to figure out if I am low on electrolytes instead of low on calories, thus I seem to know when I need some salt.

I think the key factor to think about for energy replacement is your energy output.  Long endurance types of rides are a lower wattage type of riding, you do not need much energy replenishment on such rides as your body fat reserves can provide a lot of the energy you need.  Short intense rides for say up to an hour to hour and a half, no replenishment needed during the ride either as your body stores enough readily available fast acting energy stores.  A longer ride that is more intensive, I will have some granola bars or energy bars along for such rides.

You might find this article useful, I think the graph of energy types for different intensities most interesting, at low intensity you are using almost all fats but high intensity you are using mostly carbs.  Thus, those low intensity rides are often supplied by normal foods.
https://www.roadbikerider.com/energy-sources-exercise-intensities/

I almost never have more that 20 grams of carbs at one time while on a ride, larger energy bars only get half eaten at a time.  That said, sometimes I stop at a restaurant and have a big meal while on a bike tour, but I know that when I do that I will ride slower for a couple hours after that while digesting some of that. 

Most physical trainers will tell you that after exertion, you should have some protein for muscle recovery.  When bike touring I usually try to have a protein bar (usually 20 gram protein) at the end of the day, soon after the ride.  But when exercising near home, am more likely to have some other source of protein and probably only half as much.

But, if an opportunity arises for something like in the photo, I will take advantage of it.

[Rouleur834]

Hi Mickeg

Thank you for your helpful post. Much appreciated.

Very interesting article about energy sources. I need to look at my HR Zones and decide what my goals are. Having recently purchased a Thorn, I am leaning more towards slower and longer for my cycling. That should help to reduce my requirement for carbs and also help to reduce the waistband a tad. My nurse will be pleased! Never given much thought to post ride protein, I will need to look at that.

You make very good points about ride duration and where the ride ends. Those things need to inform nutrition and hydration needs.

The Roadbikerider site has a lot of useful stuff to browse. The Cycling Past 60 articles will be a focus along with energy sources.

Learning something new every day!

Thanks again

Ray