Author Topic: Will changing from 700c 32 - 28's help?  (Read 7503 times)

ianshearin

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Will changing from 700c 32 - 28's help?
« on: February 10, 2021, 09:11:51 PM »
Hi all,
Long time since I posted here, not sure why.....

I am the proud owner of a Mercury which I picked up several months ago and hoping to do a JOGLE when it's possible (crossed fingers for June)

It came with tubeless tyres but they were a bit worn and I ended up changing them to tubes with 700c  x 32 for winter riding (I'm in UK)

To be honest I am a little worried about the miles I will put in each Day as I'm not getting any younger ;p...

Do you think it will make life easier, i.e. get more miles in per day for the same time if I swap to 700c x 28's ?

Ian
In the end, it's not going to matter how many breaths you took, but how many moments took your breath away.
'shing xiong'

Danneaux

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Re: Will changing from 700c 32 - 28's help?
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2021, 09:47:11 PM »
Quote
I ended up changing them to tubes with 700c  x 32 for winter riding (I'm in UK)...Do you think it will make life easier, i.e. get more miles in per day for the same time if I swap to 700c x 28's ?
In a word..."No".  :)

In my experience, the wider tires will have you ending each day less fatigued because the larger volume tires can be run at reduced pressure for greater comfort. In any case, I don't think they will hold you back.

I use the Android Berto Tire Pressure app to adjust my tire pressures for load and riding position (the app extends the work of the late US petroleum engineer and bike magazine technical editor Frank Berto. In numerous interviews with bicycle tire engineers, he found the "sweet spot" between rolling resistance and comfort came from tire pressures that allowed a 15% drop in rim height under load). It works well for my needs and has indeed resulted in a measured 15% rim drop for me under stated loads. For comparison, here are some figures for identical loads and on-bike position for 25mm vs 28mm vs 32mm tires (by actual measured mounted width):

25mm: F: 84psi  R: 105psi
28mm: F: 70psi  R: 87psi
32mm: F: 58psi  R: 71psi

Wrt to reduced vibration helping with increased comfort and endurance, I fitted my two primary randonneur bikes with Thudbuster ST suspension seatposts and found myself ending my 300-400km day rides feeling more refreshed. Completion times were about the same for similar conditions, but I felt better After -- less achey and fatigued -- especially if the roads were rough/chip-sealed or included gravel.

For reference, I'm nearly at my 61st birthday. Impressions from a 321km ride in January 2020 as almost no riding after 1 February due to Covid and restrictions for same. Still haven't recovered my pre-Covid breathing capacity and have ongoing symptoms.

Best,

Dan.

JimK

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Re: Will changing from 700c 32 - 28's help?
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2021, 10:00:03 PM »
due to Covid

Ach, Dan, sorry to hear that you got hit. It's a nasty business for sure. Seems like recovery is often slow... get rest, what can a person do?!

energyman

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Re: Will changing from 700c 32 - 28's help?
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2021, 10:06:42 PM »
"For reference, I'm nearly at my 61st birthday" mere spring chicken !  :)
Get well soon.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2021, 10:08:36 PM by energyman »

PH

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Re: Will changing from 700c 32 - 28's help?
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2021, 10:08:57 PM »
I'm at least as fast (Or slow) on my Mercury with 35f - 40r Schwalbe Supremes as I am on any other bike with any other tyre, so much so that I sold my dedicated Audax bike a couple of years ago because the 28's were not adding any benefit.  I've ridden several consecution 100 mile days and a few Audax up to 400km on it and some lightweight touring.  I'm not claiming to be the fastest, but that isn't about the bike.
That's not to say that someone else might not be faster or more comfortable on something else.  I sometimes ride with someone who thinks 28's are unnecessarily wide! There's only one way to be sure and that's to try, luckily tyres are cheap enough to experiment with.  But as they say, size isn't everything.  What 32's are you using?  Tyres have changed over the last few years, it used to be an assumption that if you wanted wide then speed wouldn't be a high priority.  We have the popularity of Gravel and adventure style bikes to thank for the increased range.
Good luck with the E2E.

JimK

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Re: Will changing from 700c 32 - 28's help?
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2021, 10:11:07 PM »
My own attempt to extrapolate from Berto's scheme: https://interdependentscience.blogspot.com/2019/11/rotta-model-for-bicycle-tires_38.html.

Narrow tires at high pressure are better on smooth surfaces, especially for track racing. The rougher the surface, the wider you want the tire and the lower pressure. For sure the suspension will shake you less so you feel less fatigue. But the shaking absorbs energy from your forward motion. The bike will roll more efficiently when there is enough suspension to reduce the amount of shaking.

The biggest thing with tires is the construction. The tire flexes where it hits the road. If the flexing absorbs energy, that will slow you down. If the flexing is low friction, then you'll roll easy. I just switched from Marathon Plus to Marathon Supreme. The Supremes flex with much less friction. Quite a nice change... now if I just don't pay for it with flats!


PH

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Re: Will changing from 700c 32 - 28's help?
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2021, 10:11:22 PM »
For reference, I'm nearly at my 61st birthday. Impressions from a 321km ride in January 2020 as almost no riding after 1 February due to Covid and restrictions for same. Still haven't recovered my pre-Covid breathing capacity and have ongoing symptoms.
Sorry to hear that Dan, hope you recover well.

JohnR

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Re: Will changing from 700c 32 - 28's help?
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2021, 10:28:44 PM »
See page 33 onwards of the Thorn bible http://www.sjscycles.com/thornpdf/thorn_mega_brochure.pdf. One reason I bought my Mercury was that it came with 50mm wide tyres which definitely help with comfort and a bit of bounce makes the rough surfaces of an increasing proportion of UK roads much more bearable. The thought of spending all day riding on hard narrow tyres horrifies me. I would be thinking in terms of the widest tyres with good rolling resistance which would fit the frame.

martinf

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Re: Will changing from 700c 32 - 28's help?
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2021, 09:02:19 AM »
Do you think it will make life easier, i.e. get more miles in per day for the same time if I swap to 700c x 28's ?

Probably not. I've recently swapped from 35 mm to 42 mm (manufacturer's size, the real sizes are slightly smaller) on my Raven Sport Tour. As far as I can tell I don't go any slower, but the bike is significantly more comfortable. I go further when I am comfortable.

In a given size the model of tyre can make a lot of difference. The 700c x 28 Schwalbe One tyres on my old derailleur bike are both faster and more comfortable than the (already reasonably good) 700c x 28 Michelin tyres they replaced. But if I ever need to replace these Schwalbe One (I no longer use this bike much) I will be getting the fattest lightweight tyre I can fit, probably 32 or 35 mm. 

steve216c

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Re: Will changing from 700c 32 - 28's help?
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2021, 06:28:00 PM »

 I've recently swapped from 35 mm to 42 mm (manufacturer's size, the real sizes are slightly smaller) on my Raven Sport Tour. As far as I can tell I don't go any slower, but the bike is significantly more comfortable. I go further when I am comfortable.
 

My bike was purchased (used) with 622-32 tyres on it. Switching to 622-40 has added so much comfort . I was getting lower back pain at around 12km on my daily ride with the boneshaker thinner tyres and the wider tyres gave comfort without noticeable loss of speed and the back pain is gone on my 16km commute and rarely surfaces any more even on longer rides.

At moment I’m riding spikes, which do slow me down, but even then not that much. But with 622-42 these still give a comfortable ride if you can ignore the spike noise and slightly higher rolling resistance.
If only my bike shed were bigger on the inside...

leftpoole

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Re: Will changing from 700c 32 - 28's help?
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2021, 09:46:55 AM »
In my opinion. 28mm will make the ride easier.
John

steve216c

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Re: Will changing from 700c 32 - 28's help?
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2021, 01:38:14 PM »
In my opinion. 28mm will make the ride easier.
John


I guess it depends on what easier means to you, and as well as the way your bike is set up, e.g. with/without suspension, saddle type/ height etc.

If easier means more comfort and perhaps a slight loss of speed due to extra weight and rolling resistance, wider might be easier if you reach your goal still feeling good.
If easier means reaching goal in shortest time and comfort is less of an issue (or you are someone lucky enough not to feel the bumps as much as others) then a narrower tyre may well be easier and better suited for such needs.

Now, what frame colour is the most comfortable on the eyes  8)
If only my bike shed were bigger on the inside...

steve216c

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Re: Will changing from 700c 32 - 28's help?
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2021, 01:38:50 PM »
In my opinion. 28mm will make the ride easier.
John


I guess it depends on what easier means to you, and as well as the way your bike is set up, e.g. with/without suspension, saddle type/ height etc.

If easier means more comfort and perhaps a slight loss of speed due to extra weight and rolling resistance, wider might be easier if you reach your goal still feeling good.
If easier means reaching goal in shortest time and comfort is less of an issue (or you are someone lucky enough not to feel the bumps as much as others) then a narrower tyre may well be easier and better suited for such needs.

Now, what frame colour is the most comfortable on the eyes???  8)
If only my bike shed were bigger on the inside...

ianshearin

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Re: Will changing from 700c 32 - 28's help?
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2021, 03:28:49 PM »
Thanks all for the informed replies.

Hope your feeling better Dan.

I have schwalbe Marathon Tyres which I am happy with, so looking at the advice I will stick with them.

I might experiment a little with the tyre pressures though looking at Dans post.

Ian
In the end, it's not going to matter how many breaths you took, but how many moments took your breath away.
'shing xiong'

ianshearin

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Re: Will changing from 700c 32 - 28's help?
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2021, 03:48:43 PM »
Just looking at those Thudbuster Seatposts Dan referenced, never really knew about them but they look like a good purchase for my ride.

Will the Thudbuster ST sold on the SJS site fit my Mercury?

Ian
In the end, it's not going to matter how many breaths you took, but how many moments took your breath away.
'shing xiong'