Thorn Nomad Mk2 disc brakes

[il padrone]

After nine years I finally bit the bullet, bought the kit and converted the Nomad Mk2 to disc brakes. The Andra CSS rims with Swisstop Blue pads have been excellent, but as the carbide has burnished off I found one day in the rain that the brakes were not working. A missed right turn and a swift exit onto a footpath disturbed me. I switched to the routine Koolstop salmon pads and the braking was much better, but the rain effect still disturbed me. So, about $2000 later, I have the new SON28 disc dynohub, converted Rohloff with disc cap, and the Shimano SLX hydraulic disc brakes. 180mm front rotor, 160mm rear.

They work like a dream, smooth, precise, one-finger, and all the power I need. I have decided that the hydraulics were the best for me; I will be making sure they are bled, serviced and topped up prior to any big tours, especially overseas. The Andra rims will now definitely outlast me. Most of my touring is local here in Australia, and while we have plenty of outback, I usually do not do tours for more than about 3 months maximum. That may extend to 12 months for an around Aussie tour when my wife finally retires, or some extended overseas tours, when COVID has been dealt with. But I hope that I can still cope with any issues that the disc brakes present without too much hassle.

Right now after 6 months of fairly limited “lockdown 5km radius tours” they are still a new experience. But fun.

[Tiberius]

Are those SLX M7100 (two pot) or SLX 7120 (four pot) ?

My son's bike has the M7120 brakes and they are easily the best push bike brakes that I've ever used. I come from the motorcycle world and I'm used to one finger, zero effort, masses of power, great feel/modulation and those M7120s definitely have the lot.

Sounds like a great conversion.

[JohnR]

Once I had ridden a bike with disc brakes I was immediately converted to their merits - reliable stopping ability in wet conditions, no wearing out of the rims and no more anxiety over the ability to stop before I hit something. My first car, with little drum brakes caused numerous anxious moments. My current bikes have mechanically operated disc brakes but I had one bike with hydraulic disc brakes which required negligible operating force so it was necessary to learn to be very gentle when pulling the levers. From what I've read, worry about hydraulic brakes is the risk of boiling the fluid when using the brakes while going down a very long hill.

[PH]

Sounds a good set up, though I've not considered it necessary to go above 160 on the front, though of course our usage may be different. 
I must admit my scepticism has been eroded over the last few years, I've never failed to stop with any brakes, but there have been times when I wasn't sure I would.  My Mercury with a BB7 on the back was my first experience, then a folder with Spyre, then a hybrid with Deore hydraulics.  The mechanicals were on a par with V's in the dry and unlike any rim brake I've had, lost nothing in the wet. The hydraulics are just a different ball game...
I found the Spyre to need frequent adjustment without offering anything over the BB7 and replaced the front brake on the folder with a Pauls Klamper,  which has a nicer feel and is very easy to live with, though the stopping is no different.  The Mercury now has a Deore hydraulic on the rear and I've upgraded the hybrid but kept the same Deore brakes. It's only the vulnerability when folded that stops me using the same on the folder. I have no qualms about user serviceability, I'm unlikely to ever tour anywhere so remote that access to a bike shop would be problematic, If I did, spares to cope with a brake failure would form part of the kit.

[il padrone]

They are just the single-piston (two-pot) brakes. Still work very well.

[Mike Ayling]

G'day Pete

Thorn's guru, Andy Blance used to say that a disc compatible fork was far less comfortable to ride than one of his specially designed light weight ones.

AFAICR the last time we met you were riding one of the double crown tandem compatible forks.

Have you really noticed any difference in the comfort of the ride with the stiffer fork?

Mike

[UKTony]

I switched the rear V brake to TRP Spyke mechanical disk on my 2013 Mk2 Nomad when the Grizzly rim needed replacing after about 4700 miles. I use the Nomad for unladen leisure riding and it’s just clocked 10,000 miles
I agree with PH that this needs frequent adjusting. But it performs ok for my purposes though changing pads and adjusting is a bit of a faff.
  I’m also wary about checking pad wear after experiencing a sudden very disturbing metal on metal noise and having to engage in an awkward stopping manoeuvre involving feet on tarmac on a very steep hill. Result - one new disk rotor. I’ve tried a few different makes and compounds  of pads and at the moment have settled on the Shimano BR-M515 Resin.
The Grizzly rim on the front with the Son 28 is the original from Thorns (  circa 2013), some dishing on brake surface but still firm and true despite the state of our roads and a lot of varying cycle track riding. I’m using Swisstop RxPlus Original Black Compound for Alloy Rims V brake pads.

[WorldTourer]

Can anyone recommend a good sintered pad for the TRP Spyke? Last time I went looking, I could only seem to find resin pads with a fairly short lifespan.

Also, are the Shimano disc brakes that the TRP Spyke’s pads match, now obsolete and superseded by something with different-shaped pads? If so, could that limit the availability of high-quality pads for the TRP Spyke in the future?

[UKTony]

So far not had a problem sourcing pads for my TRP Spykes. Any that are compatible with Shimano M515-M525 fit, for example these:-

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/nukeproof-shimano-deore-m515-m525-tektro-disc-pads/rp-prod129816

I did read somewhere that not all disc rotors suit all compounds. I use Hope Rohloff rotors and checked with Hope and their response was that both sintered/semi-metal  and organic/resin compound disc brake pads are fine to use with Hope disc rotors including the Hope Stainless 8-Arm 4 Bolt Rotor for Rohloff which is currently fitted to my
Nomad.
Can’t comment on your second para I’m afraid.

[PH]

The pads for TRP's are going to be around for a while, Shimano still make brakes that use them, though the higher end hydraulics now use a narrower pad, but that's only to allow those with cooling fins to be used. 
I like discobrakes, I haven't tried a huge variety, but these were recommended by some MTB'ing friends who have.  They come in several compounds, I've gone for sintered on the back for longevity and their resin pads, which they label as Kevlar, on those bikes with a disc front.  I find these Kevlar pads last longer than the other resin pads I've tried,  Shimano and something else? Though not as long as the sintered.  They have a better bite than the sintered, don't need breaking in and the biggest plus is they don't squeal like a demented banshee whenever it's damp.
https://www.discobrakes.com/?s=0&t=0&c=14&p=100&tb=001
They do a good summary of the different compounds
https://www.discobrakes.com/?s=0&t=10&q=compounds&

Tony is right about needing to match the rotor* - I think you can use resin pads on any but only resin on some, those I've seen/owned that have been the latter have had it clearly stamped on them.
* Or at least the manufacturers  instruction to do that, there's plenty of evidence that people ignore it, though I'm not suggesting you do.

[ourclarioncall]

Just curious on the brake issue

I’m looking at getting a thorn and am wrestling with the type of brakes to get

Would it be possible to get a set up with both rim brakes and disc brakes for experimental purposes to help make a final decision.

I wondered if you could have two sets of handlebars , say the top ones set up for a more relaxed posture with rim brakes and a lower handlebar in more sporty posture with disc brakes ?

Then after a trial period one of the handlebars and brakes could be removed

Anyone ever done anything like this ? Bit overkill perhaps but just wondering if in the long run it might save time /headaches

[WorldTourer]

Would it be possible to get a set up with both rim brakes and disc brakes for experimental purposes to help make a final decision.

This wouldn't make much sense, because the choice of wheel rims installed on the bike depends on whether one has disc brakes or rim brakes.

[martinf]

Would it be possible to get a set up with both rim brakes and disc brakes for experimental purposes to help make a final decision.

Anyone ever done anything like this ? Bit overkill perhaps but just wondering if in the long run it might save time /headaches

Having used a tandem with three brakes (drum rear plus cantilevers front and rear) I considered something similar for heavy-duty touring in the mid-eighties (high performance Arai drum brake plus cantilever). But I decided it was overkill for a solo bike.

To choose between discs or rim brakes I reckon the best way is to test both, on borrowed or hired bikes. A local bike shop was happy to loan me a disc-brake VTT for a test run when I had the same decision to make for my 2012 heavy tourer. In the event I decided the sharper response of disc brakes wasn't worth the extra complexity, as I had never had any problems stopping with properly set-up rim brakes on aluminium alloy rims.

Disc brakes have several advantages :
- less affected by weather. Which I translate by easier to lock a wheel and cause a skid or fall.
- no rim wear. The pads and disc wear instead. And rim wear isn't a big issue for me as I build my own wheels.
- the tyre won't blow off the rim if excessive heat builds up on long, twisty descents. But if you are braking that much you will probably get brake fade instead.
- the transmission will be cleaner. With a rim brake the pads cause muck picked up on the rim to get sprayed onto the chain. My answer to this is the Chainglider, but it only works with hub gears.

A disadvantage of discs is that they are more complicated, so less easy to fix and less easy to find compatible spare parts in out of the way places.

 

[ourclarioncall]

As far as brakes go , what would be the “no fuss” option ?

I’m really looking for a bike where I have to do as little as possible as far as maintenance goes,  for example I don’t want to be constantly cleaning and lubing derailleur so the rohloff is a win , with chainglider thing to keep it clean , Dynamo hub for lights, I really don’t want to be charging up lights all the time or going through batteries.

So with brakes , I’ve had both hydraulic and mechanical on mountain bikes and had problems with them . The hydraulic felt fantastic when they worked , but mine leaked or ceased can’t remember , then I found it difficult keeping things lined up . Very finickity trying to deal with the little pads etc. I yanked them off in the end and got a mechanical which worked quite well if I remember

But if folk are having problems with mechanical disc brakes and there is a lot of maintenance required I think I’d just want to go with v brakes . Set it and forget it type of thing

[martinf]

As far as brakes go , what would be the “no fuss” option ?

So with brakes , I’ve had both hydraulic and mechanical on mountain bikes and had problems with them . The hydraulic felt fantastic when they worked , but mine leaked or ceased can’t remember , then I found it difficult keeping things lined up . Very finickity trying to deal with the little pads etc. I yanked them off in the end and got a mechanical which worked quite well if I remember

But if folk are having problems with mechanical disc brakes and there is a lot of maintenance required I think I’d just want to go with v brakes . Set it and forget it type of thing

The flippant answers for “no fuss” option are:

Fixed wheel. Obviously not relevant for you.
Drum brakes. Obsolete as far as modern bicycles go, but I still have a Sturmey Archer drum brake/3-speed on an old visitor bike. Only maintenance in several thousand kms of use has been very occasionally taking up a bit of cable slack as the cable stretches/housing compresses and (perhaps) the brake shoes wear slightly.
Cantilevers. Again, considered obsolete. But you can still find them. I've had these since 1977, and IMO they are less fiddly than V-brakes once they are set up properly. The callipers last for decades, the brake pads, being generally much thicker, tend to last longer than those on V-brakes. 

I'd say the current low-fuss options are either mechanical disks or V-brakes.

Not sure that V-brakes are much less maintenance than mechanical discs, but I reckon they are simpler and easier to repair or bodge if they fail in a region without easy access to a modern bike shop.

With discs, you don't get wheel rim wear, but in some out of the way places it might be easier to replace a wheel rim than a worn disc or pads. And if you are unlucky you can destroy a wheel rim accidently on a bad pothole or minor accident, so the disc brake option doesn't completely eliminate possible rim problems.