Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Thorn General => Topic started by: il padrone on November 14, 2020, 08:08:13 am
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After nine years I finally bit the bullet, bought the kit and converted the Nomad Mk2 to disc brakes. The Andra CSS rims with Swisstop Blue pads have been excellent, but as the carbide has burnished off I found one day in the rain that the brakes were not working. A missed right turn and a swift exit onto a footpath disturbed me. I switched to the routine Koolstop salmon pads and the braking was much better, but the rain effect still disturbed me. So, about $2000 later, I have the new SON28 disc dynohub, converted Rohloff with disc cap, and the Shimano SLX hydraulic disc brakes. 180mm front rotor, 160mm rear.
They work like a dream, smooth, precise, one-finger, and all the power I need. I have decided that the hydraulics were the best for me; I will be making sure they are bled, serviced and topped up prior to any big tours, especially overseas. The Andra rims will now definitely outlast me. Most of my touring is local here in Australia, and while we have plenty of outback, I usually do not do tours for more than about 3 months maximum. That may extend to 12 months for an around Aussie tour when my wife finally retires, or some extended overseas tours, when COVID has been dealt with. But I hope that I can still cope with any issues that the disc brakes present without too much hassle.
Right now after 6 months of fairly limited “lockdown 5km radius tours” they are still a new experience. But fun.
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Are those SLX M7100 (two pot) or SLX 7120 (four pot) ?
My son's bike has the M7120 brakes and they are easily the best push bike brakes that I've ever used. I come from the motorcycle world and I'm used to one finger, zero effort, masses of power, great feel/modulation and those M7120s definitely have the lot.
Sounds like a great conversion.
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Once I had ridden a bike with disc brakes I was immediately converted to their merits - reliable stopping ability in wet conditions, no wearing out of the rims and no more anxiety over the ability to stop before I hit something. My first car, with little drum brakes caused numerous anxious moments. My current bikes have mechanically operated disc brakes but I had one bike with hydraulic disc brakes which required negligible operating force so it was necessary to learn to be very gentle when pulling the levers. From what I've read, worry about hydraulic brakes is the risk of boiling the fluid when using the brakes while going down a very long hill.
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Sounds a good set up, though I've not considered it necessary to go above 160 on the front, though of course our usage may be different.
I must admit my scepticism has been eroded over the last few years, I've never failed to stop with any brakes, but there have been times when I wasn't sure I would. My Mercury with a BB7 on the back was my first experience, then a folder with Spyre, then a hybrid with Deore hydraulics. The mechanicals were on a par with V's in the dry and unlike any rim brake I've had, lost nothing in the wet. The hydraulics are just a different ball game...
I found the Spyre to need frequent adjustment without offering anything over the BB7 and replaced the front brake on the folder with a Pauls Klamper, which has a nicer feel and is very easy to live with, though the stopping is no different. The Mercury now has a Deore hydraulic on the rear and I've upgraded the hybrid but kept the same Deore brakes. It's only the vulnerability when folded that stops me using the same on the folder. I have no qualms about user serviceability, I'm unlikely to ever tour anywhere so remote that access to a bike shop would be problematic, If I did, spares to cope with a brake failure would form part of the kit.
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They are just the single-piston (two-pot) brakes. Still work very well.
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G'day Pete
Thorn's guru, Andy Blance used to say that a disc compatible fork was far less comfortable to ride than one of his specially designed light weight ones.
AFAICR the last time we met you were riding one of the double crown tandem compatible forks.
Have you really noticed any difference in the comfort of the ride with the stiffer fork?
Mike
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I switched the rear V brake to TRP Spyke mechanical disk on my 2013 Mk2 Nomad when the Grizzly rim needed replacing after about 4700 miles. I use the Nomad for unladen leisure riding and it’s just clocked 10,000 miles :)
I agree with PH that this needs frequent adjusting. But it performs ok for my purposes though changing pads and adjusting is a bit of a faff.
I’m also wary about checking pad wear after experiencing a sudden very disturbing metal on metal noise and having to engage in an awkward stopping manoeuvre involving feet on tarmac on a very steep hill. Result - one new disk rotor. I’ve tried a few different makes and compounds of pads and at the moment have settled on the Shimano BR-M515 Resin.
The Grizzly rim on the front with the Son 28 is the original from Thorns ( circa 2013), some dishing on brake surface but still firm and true despite the state of our roads and a lot of varying cycle track riding. I’m using Swisstop RxPlus Original Black Compound for Alloy Rims V brake pads.
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Can anyone recommend a good sintered pad for the TRP Spyke? Last time I went looking, I could only seem to find resin pads with a fairly short lifespan.
Also, are the Shimano disc brakes that the TRP Spyke’s pads match, now obsolete and superseded by something with different-shaped pads? If so, could that limit the availability of high-quality pads for the TRP Spyke in the future?
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So far not had a problem sourcing pads for my TRP Spykes. Any that are compatible with Shimano M515-M525 fit, for example these:-
https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/nukeproof-shimano-deore-m515-m525-tektro-disc-pads/rp-prod129816
I did read somewhere that not all disc rotors suit all compounds. I use Hope Rohloff rotors and checked with Hope and their response was that both sintered/semi-metal and organic/resin compound disc brake pads are fine to use with Hope disc rotors including the Hope Stainless 8-Arm 4 Bolt Rotor for Rohloff which is currently fitted to my
Nomad.
Can’t comment on your second para I’m afraid.
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The pads for TRP's are going to be around for a while, Shimano still make brakes that use them, though the higher end hydraulics now use a narrower pad, but that's only to allow those with cooling fins to be used.
I like discobrakes, I haven't tried a huge variety, but these were recommended by some MTB'ing friends who have. They come in several compounds, I've gone for sintered on the back for longevity and their resin pads, which they label as Kevlar, on those bikes with a disc front. I find these Kevlar pads last longer than the other resin pads I've tried, Shimano and something else? Though not as long as the sintered. They have a better bite than the sintered, don't need breaking in and the biggest plus is they don't squeal like a demented banshee whenever it's damp.
https://www.discobrakes.com/?s=0&t=0&c=14&p=100&tb=001
They do a good summary of the different compounds
https://www.discobrakes.com/?s=0&t=10&q=compounds&
Tony is right about needing to match the rotor* - I think you can use resin pads on any but only resin on some, those I've seen/owned that have been the latter have had it clearly stamped on them.
* Or at least the manufacturers instruction to do that, there's plenty of evidence that people ignore it, though I'm not suggesting you do.
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Just curious on the brake issue
I’m looking at getting a thorn and am wrestling with the type of brakes to get
Would it be possible to get a set up with both rim brakes and disc brakes for experimental purposes to help make a final decision.
I wondered if you could have two sets of handlebars , say the top ones set up for a more relaxed posture with rim brakes and a lower handlebar in more sporty posture with disc brakes ?
Then after a trial period one of the handlebars and brakes could be removed
Anyone ever done anything like this ? Bit overkill perhaps but just wondering if in the long run it might save time /headaches
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Would it be possible to get a set up with both rim brakes and disc brakes for experimental purposes to help make a final decision.
This wouldn't make much sense, because the choice of wheel rims installed on the bike depends on whether one has disc brakes or rim brakes.
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Would it be possible to get a set up with both rim brakes and disc brakes for experimental purposes to help make a final decision.
Anyone ever done anything like this ? Bit overkill perhaps but just wondering if in the long run it might save time /headaches
Having used a tandem with three brakes (drum rear plus cantilevers front and rear) I considered something similar for heavy-duty touring in the mid-eighties (high performance Arai drum brake plus cantilever). But I decided it was overkill for a solo bike.
To choose between discs or rim brakes I reckon the best way is to test both, on borrowed or hired bikes. A local bike shop was happy to loan me a disc-brake VTT for a test run when I had the same decision to make for my 2012 heavy tourer. In the event I decided the sharper response of disc brakes wasn't worth the extra complexity, as I had never had any problems stopping with properly set-up rim brakes on aluminium alloy rims.
Disc brakes have several advantages :
- less affected by weather. Which I translate by easier to lock a wheel and cause a skid or fall.
- no rim wear. The pads and disc wear instead. And rim wear isn't a big issue for me as I build my own wheels.
- the tyre won't blow off the rim if excessive heat builds up on long, twisty descents. But if you are braking that much you will probably get brake fade instead.
- the transmission will be cleaner. With a rim brake the pads cause muck picked up on the rim to get sprayed onto the chain. My answer to this is the Chainglider, but it only works with hub gears.
A disadvantage of discs is that they are more complicated, so less easy to fix and less easy to find compatible spare parts in out of the way places.
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As far as brakes go , what would be the “no fuss” option ?
I’m really looking for a bike where I have to do as little as possible as far as maintenance goes, for example I don’t want to be constantly cleaning and lubing derailleur so the rohloff is a win , with chainglider thing to keep it clean , Dynamo hub for lights, I really don’t want to be charging up lights all the time or going through batteries.
So with brakes , I’ve had both hydraulic and mechanical on mountain bikes and had problems with them . The hydraulic felt fantastic when they worked , but mine leaked or ceased can’t remember , then I found it difficult keeping things lined up . Very finickity trying to deal with the little pads etc. I yanked them off in the end and got a mechanical which worked quite well if I remember
But if folk are having problems with mechanical disc brakes and there is a lot of maintenance required I think I’d just want to go with v brakes . Set it and forget it type of thing
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As far as brakes go , what would be the “no fuss” option ?
So with brakes , I’ve had both hydraulic and mechanical on mountain bikes and had problems with them . The hydraulic felt fantastic when they worked , but mine leaked or ceased can’t remember , then I found it difficult keeping things lined up . Very finickity trying to deal with the little pads etc. I yanked them off in the end and got a mechanical which worked quite well if I remember
But if folk are having problems with mechanical disc brakes and there is a lot of maintenance required I think I’d just want to go with v brakes . Set it and forget it type of thing
The flippant answers for “no fuss” option are:
Fixed wheel. Obviously not relevant for you.
Drum brakes. Obsolete as far as modern bicycles go, but I still have a Sturmey Archer drum brake/3-speed on an old visitor bike. Only maintenance in several thousand kms of use has been very occasionally taking up a bit of cable slack as the cable stretches/housing compresses and (perhaps) the brake shoes wear slightly.
Cantilevers. Again, considered obsolete. But you can still find them. I've had these since 1977, and IMO they are less fiddly than V-brakes once they are set up properly. The callipers last for decades, the brake pads, being generally much thicker, tend to last longer than those on V-brakes.
I'd say the current low-fuss options are either mechanical disks or V-brakes.
Not sure that V-brakes are much less maintenance than mechanical discs, but I reckon they are simpler and easier to repair or bodge if they fail in a region without easy access to a modern bike shop.
With discs, you don't get wheel rim wear, but in some out of the way places it might be easier to replace a wheel rim than a worn disc or pads. And if you are unlucky you can destroy a wheel rim accidently on a bad pothole or minor accident, so the disc brake option doesn't completely eliminate possible rim problems.
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So with brakes , I’ve had both hydraulic and mechanical on mountain bikes and had problems with them . The hydraulic felt fantastic when they worked , but mine leaked or ceased can’t remember , then I found it difficult keeping things lined up . Very finickity trying to deal with the little pads etc. I yanked them off in the end and got a mechanical which worked quite well if I remember
My experience is the opposite, maybe things have moved on, or our usage is different. I only have 18 months experience of the current Deore hydraulics, and a few years on mechanicals, BB7's, Spyres and Pauls Klamper. They all work, the mechanicals stand a chance of being a roadside repair, the hydraulics take less week to week effort. They all benefit from routine maintenance, the mechanicals a strip, clean and grease, the hydraulics a clean including the pistons and refreshing the fluid.
For my use it's hydraulics wherever possible (So not on the folder) I can think of some scenarios where they might not be the best choice for me, in those I'd probably skip mechanicals and go straight to V's.
The current Nomad MK3 frame would IMO be the best option for you, despite the colour (How could anyone not like the grey ;)) You'd commit to the frame, but everything else is changeable.
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Martinf
Very interesting thanks for the Info,
Some more food for thought for me
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On my Raven twin I have both :D I fitted Magura HS-33R hydraulic rim brakes, which I had bought to upgrade my previous tandem, I also opted for a Hope Tech 3 V4, 203mm hydraulic disc on the rear. Both rear brakes are controlled by the captain, which makes the right side of the handlebar look a bit busy with two brake levers.
(https://piccies.effinbrewery.co.uk/cycling/RavenFront.1024.jpg)
It works because one is a 4 finger lever (Magura which is underneath) and the other (Hope) is a two finger lever, the other reason it works is that they are hydraulic and the force required to "Grab a big handful" is very low, indeed I can operate them with my index and middle finger if required. If I could only use the Hope Tech 3 Duo lever for the rears that would be perfect, but the brake fluid is different between the two options and no one makes a seal set for mineral oil for hope brakes :(
Although the Raven twin is capable of Round the world touring on all sorts of surface, it's really only ever going to get used on metaled roads in Europe, with the possibility of some gravel given my last experience of the back mountain roads in Yugoslavia in the early 90's
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Although the Raven twin is capable of Round the world touring on all sorts of surface, it's really only ever going to get used on metaled roads in Europe..
Mine ( a Tour ) was very happy in Tajikistan, Ethiopia and Morocco. In fact, it want so go back...
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But if folk are having problems with mechanical disc brakes and there is a lot of maintenance required I think I’d just want to go with v brakes . Set it and forget it type of thing
It's only just over 2 years since I got a bike with disc brakes and there was no turning back as I put a lot of value on the ability to stop irrespective of the conditions. The only maintenance has been the occasional adjustment of the gap between the pads and the disc which is easily done while turning an Allen key while looking at where the disc passes between the pads. One day I'll need to do some pad changing which does require removing the relevant wheel but is then easy.
I've always found it more fiddly trying to adjust rim brakes to ensure that they are centred and nothing rubs on the rim.
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I think it's bizarre how many guys are going hydro and/ or dissing the cable TRP Spyre, especially compared to the pathetic chunky BB7 which has one pad moving. My TRP has worked flawlessly from the start, easily locks INSTANTLY. A BIG gorilla couldn't make the wheel move if I'm holding the lever. LOL. Laughably EASY to install, IMO. And yet mine is with a homemade plate welded on and homemade adapter that I filed, drilled and threaded by hand with not even a drill press. It has 3,500 miles on my 120 lb loaded custom tour bike, Rohloff 203 disc > the only size I could make work. The resin pads still have half life I guess. For replacements, I heard a glowing testimony for DISCSTOP-HP BBB BBS-53 resin, same shape as standard Shimano ones. So I got 3 sets sent from Germany. Maybe in a couple years I can try them. ha. I sure as hell don't expect I can find my parts of any sort on a tour, except a 1/8" chain and a brake cable. I can't even find them here in big city bike shops.
Spyre does NOT need any such fiddling or adjustments, not necessarily after a wheel removal either. This is with a track dropout and bolt axel too. I have it with more gap than usual and have my SA levers set to long pull, supposedly wrong also. LOL.
I do avoid gravel and winter muck at all cost. This hydraulics fad is equally bizarre too, IMO. How is it possible to beat my setup perfection?? YMMV. Are you really going to carry spare tube, a bleed kit and fluid on a world tour and or airplane?? LOL. I heard one guy complaining it went goofy after he turned his bike upside down to fix a flat. I haven't broken a cable during a ride in 35 years. The front one is unchanged in over 22,000 miles and both tours.
Then there is my flawless everlasting SA XL-FDD dyno drum, 27,000 miles now. On my first tour and 1000 mountain miles into the second, I happened to have a 95% useless old long reach caliper on the back. So the drum did 99% of the stopping. Drum brake truly is a bike part for the Armageddon. LOL. What is this overheating you speak of??? I brake hard for sharp turns and don't nibble them on hills. Neither brake ever has a slightest squeal.
I also had AVID BB5s on a hybrid for 18,000 miles. Neither easy, fun or better than mediocre in fair weather. One pad moving is a total JOKE. The last caliper rim pads I installed were pathetically HARD to setup. I couldn't even figure out which was L/R. Pffft. Fully inflated wheel removal is IMPOSSIBLE, even with the supposedly QR noodle removal I used to have. My front SA drum wheel I'm sure could be done blindfolded.
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I never had much much with hydraulic discs. I think my mechanical one I replaced them with was great.
I like the look of the spyre ones that grip from both sides?
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I have a Nomad Mk2 I have a rear disk brake , I didn't realise I could fit one on the front , I find it a lot easier taking the wheel off with disk brakes .
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Are both the hub and forks ready for a disc brake? See page 44 of http://www.sjscycles.com/thornpdf/thorn_mega_brochure.pdf which explains why Thorn recommend a rim brake on the front. Some of us, however, put higher weighting on reliable stopping power.
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I have a Nomad Mk2 I have a rear disk brake , I didn't realise I could fit one on the front , I find it a lot easier taking the wheel off with disk brakes .
The original fork that came with the Nomad mk2 frame is not disc brake compatible. Thorn did produce a disc brake version of the original Nomad Mk2 twin plate fork but it doesn’t appear to be available now. The problem will be finding a disc brake compatible fork that is suitable for the Nomad mk2 frame geometry.
I can see one fork in Thorn’s range of forks in their online shop - the disc brake fork for the Nomad mk3. The offset of 48mm is the same as the Mk 2 fork but the axle to crown measurement (L1) is 410mm, which is 10mm less than the mk2 fork. According to Robin Thorn using the Mk 3 disc fork on the Mk2 Nomad frame reduces the L1 (axle to crown) by 10mm so will lower the head and slightly increase the head angle of a mk2 Nomad and lower the b/b by perhaps 4mm (not much). I’ve no idea if there’d be a noticeable effect on ride quality.
Might be an idea to ask Thorn sales team what they think.
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I find it a lot easier taking the wheel off with disk brakes .
Why is this? Once the V brake has been released you can forget about it, or is it getting a wide tyre through the gap? I had a bike that needed the tyre deflating to fit the wheel, a decent pump and it's no big deal. Then replacing the wheel just means getting it in the dropouts, with a disc you also have to line up the rotor with the caliper and it's not unheard of for people to damage the pad doing so. Plus with hydraulics, you have to be ultra careful not to knock the lever while the wheel is out.
That's not to diss disc brakes, I really like them. If there was a simple solution I might consider swapping forks for them, I'd be a bit wary of changing steering geometry, I wouldn't do so for ease of wheel removal. If you're looking to improve braking, you might consider hydraulic rim brakes, though I don't think wheel removal will be any different to other rim brakes.
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I have a Nomad Mk2 I have a rear disk brake , I didn't realise I could fit one on the front , I find it a lot easier taking the wheel off with disk brakes .
The original fork that came with the Nomad mk2 frame is not disc brake compatible. Thorn did produce a disc brake version of the original Nomad Mk2 twin plate fork but it doesn’t appear to be available now. The problem will be finding a disc brake compatible fork that is suitable for the Nomad mk2 frame geometry.
I can see one fork in Thorn’s range of forks in their online shop - the disc brake fork for the Nomad mk3. The offset of 48mm is the same as the Mk 2 fork but the axle to crown measurement (L1) is 410mm, which is 10mm less than the mk2 fork. According to Robin Thorn using the Mk 3 disc fork on the Mk2 Nomad frame reduces the L1 (axle to crown) by 10mm so will lower the head and slightly increase the head angle of a mk2 Nomad and lower the b/b by perhaps 4mm (not much). I’ve no idea if there’d be a noticeable effect on ride quality.
Might be an idea to ask Thorn sales team what they think.
On a different forum, someone was looking for a new fork for his 26 inch hybrid bike that had a problem with his suspension fork. Someone on that forum suggested a 29 inch solid fork that had a fork crown to axle distance that was quite similar. That might be something to look into if getting a disc on front is that important to you.
That said, my Lynskey that I built up five years ago, I built that with disc in back (that frame was disc only) and rim brake front. In my case I had a rim brake fork that had the right rake and axle to crown length, thus I did not need to buy a $300 fork for the frame. And I did not need to buy the disc brake unit for the front which saved some more. I have salmon pads on that front wheel with V brakes and the braking in dry weather is just as good as the rear. I only notice poorer braking on the rim brake front when it is wet, but when it is wet out, I ride a bit slower and a bit more careful so it is not a problem.
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I bought the disc fork in 2019, when I saw it on the SJS site. Thought that Andy Blance had finally woken up to the rest of the touring bike market. Shame if they have dropped it now. I have been running the disc brakes for over 2 years now, somewhat restricted by COVID lockdowns, but they have given me no problems in that time. Soon might need to get them bled; I carry a set of spare pads as routine in my toolkit. My son does his own brake-bleeds for Magura hydraulic rim brakes, and I do not see it being a huge issue to carry a simple bleed kit on tour (mineral oil is a lot less critical than Dot 4). At a last chance, the technology is what most auto mechanics deal with on a daily basis.
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I bought the disc fork in 2019, when I saw it on the SJS site. Thought that Andy Blance had finally woken up to the rest of the touring bike market. Shame if they have dropped it now.
The disc fork available for the Nomad Mk2 was a QR fork. It seems companies are moving away from these due to the potential liability issues (there has been at least one successful lawsuit when a rider was injured due to a disc brake’s force throwing a QR out from the fork). So, the only remaining option for a disc brake is the Nomad Mk3 with its thru-axle fork.
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My QR disc-fork has VERY deep lawyer-lugs, and as well as that the drop-out faces slightly forwards, so the reaction from the disc brake operation will not force it out of the drop-outs. I am very confident and happy about this design. I am NOT interested in converting to through-axles either. It'd mean trashing a perfectly good touring bike, one that I spent a lot on and which has served me very well.
Most of my fellow riders who use disc brakes also do not use through-axles, and I have never seen any push-out problems to date.
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I now have two bikes with QR front disc forks, I'm confident about riding them, I do take extra care to ensure they're tightly fitted. No disc brake will eject a well fitted wheel, the issue is that it can unwind the skewer and once it's started to do so it rapidly continues to the point where its no longer well fitted and can easily be ejected.
it's one of those things where it's never likely to happen to you, that doesn't mean it can't. I prefer to use an alan key type skewer rather than a cam type, partly because I think it can be done up tighter, but mostly because you get a better feel for how tight it is. I frequently back the skewer off half a turn, enough to be sure the wheel is fully seated in the dropout, then re-tighten. It's never needed doing and that's the danger, it makes it easy to be complacent about it.
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My one disc brake bike is only disc on rear. I had a choice on that frame, through axle or quick release, I opted for quick release. Very happy with it.
I have heard frequent complaints that people say they have trouble getting their disc brake aligned correctly after replacing the wheel with quick release, but that has never been a problem for me. Perhaps the dropouts on their bikes had a bit more cut away for the axle than really necessary and had sloppy wheel tolerance in the dropouts?
I am hoping that I can stick with my current fleet of quick release bikes and not replace any, as I have no interest in through axle. A friend of mine got a through axle, had trouble figuring it out, I tried to help him and I had a lot of difficulty getting it all aligned right to put the wheel in, where a quick release wheel would have dropped right in.
There are people that never learned that the quick release mechanism is a cam operated tightener, they thought the lever on it was a substitute for a wrench. A gal I used to work with was smart, she was a scientist with a masters degree, and I was really shocked when I saw that she did not know how to operate a quick release. I think that is part of the problem with quick releases was that user error was too common and too many bike shops never trained the buyers on the basics.
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My QR disc-fork has VERY deep lawyer-lugs, and as well as that the drop-out faces slightly forwards, so the reaction from the disc brake operation will not force it out of the drop-outs. I am very confident and happy about this design.
It’s normal for you personally to be confident and yes, any such accident would be a freak accident. But the fear of liability is widespread throughout the industry, so this determines many designers’ new bikes.
I once came across a website describing the original lawsuit (around 2010?) and the reactions to it by various companies over the following years. I lost the link, but it would be great if someone else had it.
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My one disc brake bike is only disc on rear. I had a choice on that frame, through axle or quick release, I opted for quick release. Very happy with it.
I have heard frequent complaints that people say they have trouble getting their disc brake aligned correctly after replacing the wheel with quick release, but that has never been a problem for me. Perhaps the dropouts on their bikes had a bit more cut away for the axle than really necessary and had sloppy wheel tolerance in the dropouts?
I think many such issues are all due to people touching the brake lever while the wheel is out, pushing the piston in a bit. I have found the alignment and refitting of the Rohloff rear (with disc, EX-box and chain) to be tricky, but happily I only very rarely have that off the bike.
I am hoping that I can stick with my current fleet of quick release bikes and not replace any, as I have no interest in through axle. A friend of mine got a through axle, had trouble figuring it out, I tried to help him and I had a lot of difficulty getting it all aligned right to put the wheel in, where a quick release wheel would have dropped right in.
There are people that never learned that the quick release mechanism is a cam operated tightener, they thought the lever on it was a substitute for a wrench. A gal I used to work with was smart, she was a scientist with a masters degree, and I was really shocked when I saw that she did not know how to operate a quick release. I think that is part of the problem with quick releases was that user error was too common and too many bike shops never trained the buyers on the basics.
I have noticed this as well, often among people that I would have thought had more intelligence.
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::) OR you can get a bolt on SA XL-FDD dyno drum brake. Set and forget for 30,000+ miles, with maybe a bearing change. Any disc fork will be strong enough for it.
My first one is on it's 3rd bike, getting real close to 30,000. I rode it 127.5 rolly miles last Saturday, with the SA XL-RD5w.
2 weeks ago I got it up to 40 mph down a hill, hit the brakes and stopped in 40 feet I guess. Zero drama. NO wheel is easier to dismount and mount.
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I got it up to 40 mph down a hill, hit the brakes and stopped in 40 feet I guess.
Nice story. When is the movie coming out?
40mph is not 80kmh, but not far off it.
"So with a velocity of 80 km/p/h, on a 15% gradient downwards, with a Bicycle Brake Reaction Time of 2.5 seconds, a Bicycle Brake Response Time of 22.68 seconds and a 0.25 Coefficient Of Friction, the shortest possible Distance to Brake to Stop (without skidding) is 55.56 + 251.95 = 307.51 metres"
https://www.muggaccinos.com/Liability/BrakeCalcs/Braking_formula/TwoDistanceToBrakeToStopFormulae.htm
WTF are you and that looney website talking about??? LOL hahaha >>1000 feet to stop??? LOL hahahahahahahahaha
I used BOTH drum brakes. The road was FLAT when I braked. Reaction time has zero to do with my stopping. Anyway, .25 sec is more like it. Lots of times I stopped from 35 mph to take a photo on a hill on tour at 290 lbs total. I doubt it was more than 120 feet.
But I was on a really steep hill in North Vancouver with about 8 blocks to the bottom. This was when I had a POOR caliper on my Rohloff. So I did a release/ stop every 6 feet. But it worked and this was on the sidewalk. It also worked so well in Vietnam/ China, it broke my weak fork 3 times in the same place near the top.
I don't need anywhere near 15% to get my SA 5w to 46 mph either. Not even rod brakes are that bad. LOL.
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2 weeks ago I got it up to 40 mph down a hill, hit the brakes and stopped in 40 feet I guess. ...
I doubt that a bicyclist could physically do that without flying over the handlebars, center of gravity too high. Especially on a downhill where their center of gravity is shifted more forward on the bike. I suspect a F1 race car might be able to do it.
I went over the handlebars a couple years ago, not fun. Trying to make it to the intersection before the light turned red, and a moron in a car to my left decided to pass me before they turned right. Pulled up next to me and tried to make a right turn without getting past me first. Ribs hurt for weeks after that. I was surprised no dents in my titanium frame. And I was well below 40 mph.
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Forty mph is 59 feet per second.
It's implausible that Gambler was stationary less than a second after applying the brake at 40mph. OTOH it is not implausible that he stopped with, as he says, zero drama. And that is the more emphatic claim (he qualified with 40ft with an 'I guess'), even if it is also the less consequential claim.
Just about any brake can stop a cyclist from 40mph with no drama. The drama arises only when there's a reason to stop in a hurry.
Edit: a bit more research suggests your ordinary motor car can stop from 37mph in 65ft from the point where the brake was applied (that is, excluding reaction time).
https://www.qld.gov.au/transport/safety/road-safety/driving-safely/stopping-distances/graph
So, "I guess" 40 ft is a pretty good guess if a bicycle with a good brake and tyre stops as well as a car. And only a 300 per cent under-estimation if it stops half as well.
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https://www.google.ca/maps/@53.5321972,-113.5374236,123m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en
Here is the short hill (off to the right to 116 street) and bridge at the bottom. Total 550 m.
I was going full speed about where the dark red car is, 400 m along. Here I had to hesitate as a car was wanting to cross between the islands. So I coasted another 130 where I decided to make a full stop from 38 mph, about where the center of Groat Road is. So that leaves 20 m at most.
I rode up the side path twice that day as this area was in the pro triathlon race course for 2 days.
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Here's someone occasionally managing to stop in 40ft https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJe99BjV8bM but he wasn't starting from 40mph. Kinetic energy is proportional to speed squared so stopping from 40mph takes four times the braking effort of stopping from 20mph.
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I said I got UP to 40 mph ON the hill.
Sorry I didn't say in the first post I stopped on the FLAT after the bottom, but I did in the second one.
But anyway, I redid the test today with only me there, 39.9 mph. I stopped DEAD with NO skidding, in 6 or 7 turns of the 700 x 36c tires. It was 1 second past the bridge expansion plate.
So that is most likely between 42 and 46 feet. The lane is curving, so it was hard to pick a starting line going 58 fps. A spotter would sure help. I turned the bike around and counted the times the stem went around. It's set at 2170 mm -- edited. My front tire is a low miles but 9 year old Schwalbe Marathon, often specked on city bikes.
So it sure as hell isn't that LUDICROUS 1000 feet mentioned the post after mine. LOL. Even more NUTS is their assertion of 2.5 second "bicycle brake response" time. LOL hahahahahaha I could beat that from dead ASLEEP.
So let's see YOUR results from 40 mph. I bet there's ZERO chance any of you can do better. LOL.
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Oh and about that video clown stopping a MTB in 37 to 52 feet from 23 mph with hydro discs?? Is that how laughably HORRIBLE your brakes are?? LOL
And NO I don't fly over the bars. LOL.
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So let's see YOUR results from 40 mph. I bet there's ZERO chance any of you can do better. LOL.
I've stopped from about 20mph in less than 6", I have the photos, and scars, to prove it.
Oh and about that video clown stopping a MTB in 37 to 52 feet from 23 mph with hydro discs?? Is that how laughably HORRIBLE your brakes are?? LOL
That clearly demonstrated two things, first how variable the stopping distances with the same equipment was, which is the human element. More importantly, that the first thing to restrict the stopping distance was the tyre's grip.
Neither of those things surprise me, the only failed braking I've experienced has been the loss of control between tyre and surface. I've had this with DP calipers and V's. It wouldn't make any difference if you put a motorcycle four piston disc caliper on a huge rotor you still wouldn't stop in a shorter distance. My experience with cable drum brakes is restricted to motorbikes, simple, easy, reliable, decent stopping, the only downside and the reason they're no longer as common, is the feel and modulation. That comes across in the above video as well, he's clearly impressed with the hydraulics for reasons other than the stopping distance, this is my opinion as well.
Well done for your incredible ability in stopping, very impressive, but it must be down to something other than the brakes.