Author Topic: Thorn Nomad Mark 2 frame conversion to Gates Belt Drive  (Read 9547 times)

teifun

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Re: Thorn Nomad Mark 2 frame conversion to Gates Belt Drive
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2017, 03:50:18 am »
i'm solely an urban cyclist, running errands and just moving from a to b so if the belt breaks on me i'll be disappointed but not stranded.

yes, i do think i feel a bit of extra drag with the belt versus the chain.

i haven't really investigated the situation enough to be sure and it's not enough to bother me right now but i am a little curious if it's my disc brakes rubbing or if it's the belt's innate friction.

when Jeremy finishes splitting the chainstay i will need to send the completed frame to Gates in Denver to be stress tested (and passed) before Neil at Cycle Monkey (i.e. Rohloff service) will sell me another Gates/Rohloff adaptor ring.

i think i understand the "if it ain't broke" argument against chains (Aaron at Aaron's bike shop is not a big fan and his experience is vast) and that's fair enough because i would have to agree that the belt is slightly less efficient at energy transfer.

that having been said, it is no less than fantastic (to me, subjectively of course) to not have to roll up my pants, to be able to jump on the bike and apply full force immediately without any kind of slippage or the chain coming off- i just hate that awful sense of jumping on the pedals only to feel teeth slipping and missing.

i haven't ridden more than a couple hundred miles on my belted Folsom so far (asthma) but this system looks and feels bulltproof in a way that i've never experienced with a chain.

i'll keep my chain driven cargo e-bikes (a 'Stoked Big Dummy and a 'Stoked Yuba Mundo) but at this rate all my future builds will be belt.

the Thorn will be my travel bike (it has S&S couplers) and i'm very much looking forward to visiting Amsterdam (and Dutch segregated cycle paths) in late June


John Saxby

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Re: Thorn Nomad Mark 2 frame conversion to Gates Belt Drive
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2017, 11:12:55 am »
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Sick to death of chain rusting, stretching, and making my legs filthy.  Sick of carrying lube.

Pavel, Pavel, there's a cheap/quick/effective fix for all those Bad Things. it's called a Hebie Chainglider.  ;)

AND, to the uninitiated, it even looks like a belt drive: While riding the Icefields Parkway this past summer, I stopped one night at a hostel. There were a clutch of cyclists there, a group of friends from around Canada who had been doing an annual ride together for a number of years. They saw my Raven-mit-Rohloff, and ooohed-and-aaahed. One asked, looking at the 'glider (from a distance of about 15 feet, it must be said), "Is that a belt drive?"  I had to let her down gently, saying that that I wasn't quite as quite as out-on-the-edge as that, I just didn't like forever fussing with the wretched chain.

mickeg

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Re: Thorn Nomad Mark 2 frame conversion to Gates Belt Drive
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2017, 12:13:13 pm »
When I built up my Nomad four years ago, I considered putting on a chainguard like this one:
http://www.niagaracycle.com/categories/sks-chainboard-chainguard-175mm-x-44t-black

But being an S&S bike I decided that I would be better off with a bashguard style chainguard instead.  I did not like the high prices I saw for bashguards, but I saw a 52T chainring on clearance pricing, so I bought that and cut the teeth off of it with a saber saw.  I did not like the rough cut sawn edge, so I mounted the chainring/bashguard on the crank and turned the crank by hand for about 15 minutes while holding a file against it until it looked perfect.  After the first attached photo was taken, I sprayed it black which I think looks much better.

I still wear a strap around my pants at the ankle, but the oversized bashguard works reasonably well at keeping my leg and pants clean when i forget to wear the strap.

I commented before that when I go on a bike tour, I switch to a 36T chainring for lower gearing.  But when I tour, I then use a 44T chainring as a bashguard/chainring, as in the second photo.  And then if I find that the hills are not very steep but I am spinning out with tailwinds, I could add a few links and switch the chain to the 44T later if I wanted to.  But so far the hills were always steep enough that I wanted to keep the chain on the 36T when I traveled.

I am not saying anything is wrong with a belt or a chainglider, I am just commenting on my preferred solutions.

...
when Jeremy finishes splitting the chainstay i will need to send the completed frame to Gates in Denver to be stress tested (and passed) before Neil at Cycle Monkey (i.e. Rohloff service) will sell me another Gates/Rohloff adaptor ring.
...
the Thorn will be my travel bike (it has S&S couplers) and i'm very much looking forward to visiting Amsterdam (and Dutch segregated cycle paths) in late June

Regarding belt installation, I thought that the normal practice was to split the seatstay, not chain stay.  Or was I wrong?  Or, was there some reason that the chainstay is the preferred option in this case?

Get a luggage scale if you do not have one yet.  I found that putting my Nomad in a case, I had to work pretty hard to keep each of my bags down to the weight limit that airlines will give you per checked bag.  Some of my bike components were in my other checked bag due to the weight.  I have had good luck with the cheap luggage scales on Ebay that are shipped from China, although shipping can take a month.

teifun

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Re: Thorn Nomad Mark 2 frame conversion to Gates Belt Drive
« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2017, 04:16:43 pm »
i misspoke and you're correct- the part of the frame getting split is the drive-side seatstay

Pavel

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Re: Thorn Nomad Mark 2 frame conversion to Gates Belt Drive
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2017, 04:42:12 pm »
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Sick to death of chain rusting, stretching, and making my legs filthy.  Sick of carrying lube.

Pavel, Pavel, there's a cheap/quick/effective fix for all those Bad Things. it's called a Hebie Chainglider.  ;)

AND, to the uninitiated, it even looks like a belt drive: While riding the Icefields Parkway this past summer, I stopped one night at a hostel. There were a clutch of cyclists there, a group of friends from around Canada who had been doing an annual ride together for a number of years. They saw my Raven-mit-Rohloff, and ooohed-and-aaahed. One asked, looking at the 'glider (from a distance of about 15 feet, it must be said), "Is that a belt drive?"  I had to let her down gently, saying that that I wasn't quite as quite as out-on-the-edge as that, I just didn't like forever fussing with the wretched chain.

John, John, John; that would be a lot like taking a warm Miller light, slapping a Newcastle label on it, putting in some molasses for color - and saying cheers. Just the thought gives me indigestion. It just wouldn't be the same, though yes, it would be cheaper.

Besides, we be cyclists.  That, by definition, I believe, means that we tackle things with the worst balance of ease and convenience versus cost. I mean, when I tell the sensible part of the population (those who take the car, with the air-conditioner going full tilt half the year - and seat heaters going if one happens to be Canadian - the other half) how much I paid for a Thorn - well I don't have to describe how nutty I seem (and y'all too).  There are perfectly good walmart solutions for under 200 dollars, the wisdom goes, and why oh why would someone want to sweat outside of the gym? I don't even try to explain the Rohloff part.

So to see Thorn aficionados, miss a wonderful opportunity to spend large sums on "something new", and to carry on as usual, against the essence of their genes - well, that is outright tragic. Come-on, snap out of it. Do your duty as what and who you are.

Someone needs to keep "things" moving forward, and four inch wide tires are already sooo yesterday.  ;)
« Last Edit: April 08, 2017, 04:45:52 pm by pavel »

John Saxby

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Re: Thorn Nomad Mark 2 frame conversion to Gates Belt Drive
« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2017, 08:50:36 pm »
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perfectly good ... solutions for under 200 dollars

Ah, that may be my problem -- I paid only Cdn$200 (net) for my Raven, y'see (though I did have to finance the balance by selling my restored mid-50's ex-comp AJS scrambler), so the 'glider seemed a suitably modest fix for The Nagging Chain Thing.  My Scottish forebears were impressed, too.

Bill

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Re: Thorn Nomad Mark 2 frame conversion to Gates Belt Drive
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2017, 05:23:45 am »
Have a look at this.


http://cyclemonkeylab.blogspot.se/search/label/Surly

Cycle Monkey are the masters at Rohloff conversions and they are big on belts. Chains are a tried and true technology, belts are not there yet, but if nobody tries them, they never will be.

Good luck on your belt drive experiment, keep us posted, but I suspect Thorn won't approve.

My favourite Cycle Monkey Rohloff conversion is this one:

http://cyclemonkeylab.blogspot.ca/2016/03/jones-plus-bikepacking-bike-with.html

http://cyclemonkeylab.blogspot.ca/2016/03/jones-plus-bikepacking-bike-with.html
 

Pavel

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Re: Thorn Nomad Mark 2 frame conversion to Gates Belt Drive
« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2017, 03:03:36 am »
Have a look at this.


http://cyclemonkeylab.blogspot.se/search/label/Surly

Cycle Monkey are the masters at Rohloff conversions and they are big on belts. Chains are a tried and true technology, belts are not there yet, but if nobody tries them, they never will be.

Good luck on your belt drive experiment, keep us posted, but I suspect Thorn won't approve.

My favourite Cycle Monkey Rohloff conversion is this one:

http://cyclemonkeylab.blogspot.ca/2016/03/jones-plus-bikepacking-bike-with.html

http://cyclemonkeylab.blogspot.ca/2016/03/jones-plus-bikepacking-bike-with.html


I think your post has pushed me over the edge, Bill.  Tomorrow I call Cycle Monkey (again) and will talk to them about finally getting this underway.  I'll keep my Nomad as is and will look into sending off the RST to get "upgraded".  Last time I spoke to them, it was a case of them testing the frame for free - if it was the first time for that model, which, with the popularity of RST's here in the US, would probably be a sure thing. I think they even ship it back free of charge. 

Does anyone have any info on how one clean and lubes a belt drive?  I can't seem to find any advice as to which weekly ritual is best? :D

Danneaux

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Re: Thorn Nomad Mark 2 frame conversion to Gates Belt Drive
« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2017, 03:29:52 am »
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Does anyone have any info on how one clean and lubes a belt drive?  I can't seem to find any advice as to which weekly ritual is best?

Yes, see: http://www.gatescarbondrive.com/resources/faqs

Best,

Dan.