Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Rohloff Internal Hub Gears => Topic started by: teifun on April 04, 2017, 10:45:01 pm
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Hi All,
would i be disturbing anybody's peace of mind if i said i sent my Nomad out to to a frame builder (Jeremy at Sycip Cycles) to get its chainstay broken so i can run it as a belted Rohloff?
have any of you seen this done to a Nomad before?
i haven't detected too much belt love in these here parts is why i ask.
(I haven't gotten it back from Jeremy yet but i'm real excited based on the belted Rohloff setup i have already on my 26" Swobo Folsom frame)
much obliged!
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Not disturbed at all for my part. Just interested and eager to hear initial impressions and long-term experience.
Your Thorn frame warranty for following repairs to related areas is likely shot, but I figure anyone can assess the risks and then decide. Not too unlike the decision to mount a kickstand against advisement.
Please let us know details and results -- preferably with photos -- when you get it back.
Best,
Dan.
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Have a look at this.
http://cyclemonkeylab.blogspot.se/search/label/Surly
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I, too, would love to hear how this turns out.
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Neil's belted Rohloff builds at Cycle Monkey have been quite the inspiration for me and i'm so glad to have him so close to me here in the Bay Area.
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When you already have a belt drive bike, that makes you an educated buyer so you know what you are getting. Thus, I suspect you will be quite happy with it.
I met a couple in Iceland last summer, both had Rohloffs, one of which was belt. The first thing he said when I commented on the belt was that they were carrying a spare belt because nobody in the entire country sold the belts.
I will stay with chains for one simple reason. I use a 44T chainring for general use biking near home, but switch to a 36T chainring for bike touring to get the lower gearing for hills. It would be a lot more work to change gear ratios with a belt.
I met one other belt user in Iceland last summer, he commented that he thought his belt was a bit slower, his friends that had chains seemed to be a little faster on the road. The way he said it, I suspected that he had biked with them enough in the past with chaindrive that he knew who was how fast.
Of the two belt owners I talked to, I do not recall which was which but one of them had the newer belt style and the other the older style belts. One comment was that with one of the belt styles, the chainline (is it chainline or beltline?) had to be perfect whereas with a chain some error was ok. I built up my bike with a chainline error of about 5mm. I do not know if that would be acceptable with a belt.
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My Mind is at peace with a Rohloff Hub, Single Ring, Nomad frame & a chain.
My philosophy, if it isn't bust don't fix it but we are all different. :)
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Since I cycle in street clothes, in the summer light-colored khakis, my driveline must be perfectly clean. Somewhat perversely, I also developed my bike to require near-zero servicing (a few minutes a year is all it takes) and the absolute minimum of cleaning. A chain isn't clean from the box until you chuck it, and a belt is clean only when it is brand new. Also, the life of a Gates Drive belt is 5000 miles, which I consider a high-maintenance number for a replacement that requires dismantling the frame. Also, my understanding is that the Gates Drive belt had better run perfectly parallel to the bike's centerline between "chainring" and sprocket. My bike's chainline is straight to within half a millimeter, simply from a general preference for doing things precisely and correctly, and I can tell you that was a hew-yuge pain to set up. But, if you prefer a roadie's narrow tread (these days in poncey boutique-speak the "Q-factor"), a straight beltline may be impossible.
I therefore prefer a chain with a Hebie Chainglider, which I give a swipe whenever the bike gets wet with a towel kept in my toolbox table. Drying the bike when it gets wet also takes care of cleaning it. Since even the tiniest lanes around here are tarmac, that towel hasn't needed washing since my bike was new nine years ago. (Also, I don't by handing her the towel to wash want to remind my wife that I grabbed a Porthault towel for my bike...) Many posters here like the Chainglider for extending chain life quite a bit, but to me that is secondary (I'm a masher who thinks 4500km from a chain is just wonderful): the main thing is its cleanliness.
I too look forward to reports of your experience with the Gates Drive and the split frame.
Congratulations for taking one for the team here, as I don't think anyone else on the forum has yet taken the plunge on the Gates Drive.
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Six of one and half a dozen of the other comes to mind.
Hope Rohloff have approved the mod, I suspect Thorn won't
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Rohloff have, not sure about Thorn. Suspect not given a cut into the frame.
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Hope Rohloff have approved the mod, I suspect Thorn won't
Who cares ??.....Where would we be if we followed EVERY rule/regulation and sought approval on everything we did. This is an exciting little project....doing something a little bit different...I love this stuff.. 8)
teifun....Crack on, please keep us informed on progress.... :)
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i'd cut the belt before i cut the frame :-\ :-\
anto
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Hope Rohloff have approved the mod, I suspect Thorn won't
Who cares
Its a very expensive experiment but fair play to the chap for having a go. ;)
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Hope Rohloff have approved the mod, I suspect Thorn won't
Who cares ??.....Where would we be if we followed EVERY rule/regulation and sought approval on everything we did. This is an exciting little project....doing something a little bit different...I love this stuff.. 8)
teifun....Crack on, please keep us informed on progress.... :)
LOVE that reply. Reply of the year in my book. We sure have a lot of conservative bores here. I'm surprised that some have had the nerve to embrace the safety bicycle, in lieu of the penny farthing, seeing that it's not even a two hundred year concept, and you know ... it could fail at some point.
I want a gates drive so badly I can't stand it. Sick to death of chain rusting, stretching, and making my legs filthy. Sick of carrying lube. Perhaps always replacing and maintaining chains is some peoples idea of fun, but not mine. Lets get with the 20th century before the 21'st is out. :D
If a belt is good enough for my 725 pound harley and it's huge torque, I'm pretty confident that it will serve just fine on my 70 pound fully loaded bicycle, power by my 1/10th horsepower, tired ol' legs.
Keep us in the Loop about progress. I've already set it up to have my RST sent in for free testing, though my natural laziness has gotten the better of that situation. If the RST isn't rigid enough for the surgery, then there may be a nice red RST for sale and I'll get a frame better suited for civilized travel.
I've only met three long distance tourists that made the jump. You could tell that they had heard all my concerns a thousand times before, while they patiently explained that the fears are unfounded. Likely spread by those who have never used the new technology.
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Hope Rohloff have approved the mod, I suspect Thorn won't
Who cares ??.....Where would we be if we followed EVERY rule/regulation and sought approval on everything we did. This is an exciting little project....doing something a little bit different...I love this stuff.. 8)
teifun....Crack on, please keep us informed on progress.... :)
LOVE that reply. Reply of the year in my book. We sure have a lot of conservative bores here. I'm surprised that some have had the nerve to embrace the safety bicycle, in lieu of the penny farthing, seeing that it's not even a two hundred year concept, and you know ... it could fail at some point.
I want a gates drive so badly I can't stand it. Sick to death of chain rusting, stretching, and making my legs filthy. Sick of carrying lube. Perhaps always replacing and maintaining chains is some peoples idea of fun, but not mine. Lets get with the 20th century before the 21'st is out. :D
If a belt is good enough for my 725 pound harley and it's huge torque, I'm pretty confident that it will serve just fine on my 70 pound fully loaded bicycle, power by my 1/10th horsepower, tired ol' legs.
Keep us in the Loop about progress. I've already set it up to have my RST sent in for free testing, though my natural laziness has gotten the better of that situation. If the RST isn't rigid enough for the surgery, then there may be a nice red RST for sale and I'll get a frame better suited for civilized travel.
I've only met three long distance tourists that made the jump. You could tell that they had heard all my concerns a thousand times before, while they patiently explained that the fears are unfounded. Likely spread by those who have never used the new technology.
:o ::) ::)
Each to their own.
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i'm solely an urban cyclist, running errands and just moving from a to b so if the belt breaks on me i'll be disappointed but not stranded.
yes, i do think i feel a bit of extra drag with the belt versus the chain.
i haven't really investigated the situation enough to be sure and it's not enough to bother me right now but i am a little curious if it's my disc brakes rubbing or if it's the belt's innate friction.
when Jeremy finishes splitting the chainstay i will need to send the completed frame to Gates in Denver to be stress tested (and passed) before Neil at Cycle Monkey (i.e. Rohloff service) will sell me another Gates/Rohloff adaptor ring.
i think i understand the "if it ain't broke" argument against chains (Aaron at Aaron's bike shop is not a big fan and his experience is vast) and that's fair enough because i would have to agree that the belt is slightly less efficient at energy transfer.
that having been said, it is no less than fantastic (to me, subjectively of course) to not have to roll up my pants, to be able to jump on the bike and apply full force immediately without any kind of slippage or the chain coming off- i just hate that awful sense of jumping on the pedals only to feel teeth slipping and missing.
i haven't ridden more than a couple hundred miles on my belted Folsom so far (asthma) but this system looks and feels bulltproof in a way that i've never experienced with a chain.
i'll keep my chain driven cargo e-bikes (a 'Stoked Big Dummy and a 'Stoked Yuba Mundo) but at this rate all my future builds will be belt.
the Thorn will be my travel bike (it has S&S couplers) and i'm very much looking forward to visiting Amsterdam (and Dutch segregated cycle paths) in late June
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Sick to death of chain rusting, stretching, and making my legs filthy. Sick of carrying lube.
Pavel, Pavel, there's a cheap/quick/effective fix for all those Bad Things. it's called a Hebie Chainglider. ;)
AND, to the uninitiated, it even looks like a belt drive: While riding the Icefields Parkway this past summer, I stopped one night at a hostel. There were a clutch of cyclists there, a group of friends from around Canada who had been doing an annual ride together for a number of years. They saw my Raven-mit-Rohloff, and ooohed-and-aaahed. One asked, looking at the 'glider (from a distance of about 15 feet, it must be said), "Is that a belt drive?" I had to let her down gently, saying that that I wasn't quite as quite as out-on-the-edge as that, I just didn't like forever fussing with the wretched chain.
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When I built up my Nomad four years ago, I considered putting on a chainguard like this one:
http://www.niagaracycle.com/categories/sks-chainboard-chainguard-175mm-x-44t-black
But being an S&S bike I decided that I would be better off with a bashguard style chainguard instead. I did not like the high prices I saw for bashguards, but I saw a 52T chainring on clearance pricing, so I bought that and cut the teeth off of it with a saber saw. I did not like the rough cut sawn edge, so I mounted the chainring/bashguard on the crank and turned the crank by hand for about 15 minutes while holding a file against it until it looked perfect. After the first attached photo was taken, I sprayed it black which I think looks much better.
I still wear a strap around my pants at the ankle, but the oversized bashguard works reasonably well at keeping my leg and pants clean when i forget to wear the strap.
I commented before that when I go on a bike tour, I switch to a 36T chainring for lower gearing. But when I tour, I then use a 44T chainring as a bashguard/chainring, as in the second photo. And then if I find that the hills are not very steep but I am spinning out with tailwinds, I could add a few links and switch the chain to the 44T later if I wanted to. But so far the hills were always steep enough that I wanted to keep the chain on the 36T when I traveled.
I am not saying anything is wrong with a belt or a chainglider, I am just commenting on my preferred solutions.
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when Jeremy finishes splitting the chainstay i will need to send the completed frame to Gates in Denver to be stress tested (and passed) before Neil at Cycle Monkey (i.e. Rohloff service) will sell me another Gates/Rohloff adaptor ring.
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the Thorn will be my travel bike (it has S&S couplers) and i'm very much looking forward to visiting Amsterdam (and Dutch segregated cycle paths) in late June
Regarding belt installation, I thought that the normal practice was to split the seatstay, not chain stay. Or was I wrong? Or, was there some reason that the chainstay is the preferred option in this case?
Get a luggage scale if you do not have one yet. I found that putting my Nomad in a case, I had to work pretty hard to keep each of my bags down to the weight limit that airlines will give you per checked bag. Some of my bike components were in my other checked bag due to the weight. I have had good luck with the cheap luggage scales on Ebay that are shipped from China, although shipping can take a month.
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i misspoke and you're correct- the part of the frame getting split is the drive-side seatstay
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Sick to death of chain rusting, stretching, and making my legs filthy. Sick of carrying lube.
Pavel, Pavel, there's a cheap/quick/effective fix for all those Bad Things. it's called a Hebie Chainglider. ;)
AND, to the uninitiated, it even looks like a belt drive: While riding the Icefields Parkway this past summer, I stopped one night at a hostel. There were a clutch of cyclists there, a group of friends from around Canada who had been doing an annual ride together for a number of years. They saw my Raven-mit-Rohloff, and ooohed-and-aaahed. One asked, looking at the 'glider (from a distance of about 15 feet, it must be said), "Is that a belt drive?" I had to let her down gently, saying that that I wasn't quite as quite as out-on-the-edge as that, I just didn't like forever fussing with the wretched chain.
John, John, John; that would be a lot like taking a warm Miller light, slapping a Newcastle label on it, putting in some molasses for color - and saying cheers. Just the thought gives me indigestion. It just wouldn't be the same, though yes, it would be cheaper.
Besides, we be cyclists. That, by definition, I believe, means that we tackle things with the worst balance of ease and convenience versus cost. I mean, when I tell the sensible part of the population (those who take the car, with the air-conditioner going full tilt half the year - and seat heaters going if one happens to be Canadian - the other half) how much I paid for a Thorn - well I don't have to describe how nutty I seem (and y'all too). There are perfectly good walmart solutions for under 200 dollars, the wisdom goes, and why oh why would someone want to sweat outside of the gym? I don't even try to explain the Rohloff part.
So to see Thorn aficionados, miss a wonderful opportunity to spend large sums on "something new", and to carry on as usual, against the essence of their genes - well, that is outright tragic. Come-on, snap out of it. Do your duty as what and who you are.
Someone needs to keep "things" moving forward, and four inch wide tires are already sooo yesterday. ;)
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perfectly good ... solutions for under 200 dollars
Ah, that may be my problem -- I paid only Cdn$200 (net) for my Raven, y'see (though I did have to finance the balance by selling my restored mid-50's ex-comp AJS scrambler), so the 'glider seemed a suitably modest fix for The Nagging Chain Thing. My Scottish forebears were impressed, too.
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Have a look at this.
http://cyclemonkeylab.blogspot.se/search/label/Surly
Cycle Monkey are the masters at Rohloff conversions and they are big on belts. Chains are a tried and true technology, belts are not there yet, but if nobody tries them, they never will be.
Good luck on your belt drive experiment, keep us posted, but I suspect Thorn won't approve.
My favourite Cycle Monkey Rohloff conversion is this one:
http://cyclemonkeylab.blogspot.ca/2016/03/jones-plus-bikepacking-bike-with.html
http://cyclemonkeylab.blogspot.ca/2016/03/jones-plus-bikepacking-bike-with.html
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Have a look at this.
http://cyclemonkeylab.blogspot.se/search/label/Surly
Cycle Monkey are the masters at Rohloff conversions and they are big on belts. Chains are a tried and true technology, belts are not there yet, but if nobody tries them, they never will be.
Good luck on your belt drive experiment, keep us posted, but I suspect Thorn won't approve.
My favourite Cycle Monkey Rohloff conversion is this one:
http://cyclemonkeylab.blogspot.ca/2016/03/jones-plus-bikepacking-bike-with.html
http://cyclemonkeylab.blogspot.ca/2016/03/jones-plus-bikepacking-bike-with.html
I think your post has pushed me over the edge, Bill. Tomorrow I call Cycle Monkey (again) and will talk to them about finally getting this underway. I'll keep my Nomad as is and will look into sending off the RST to get "upgraded". Last time I spoke to them, it was a case of them testing the frame for free - if it was the first time for that model, which, with the popularity of RST's here in the US, would probably be a sure thing. I think they even ship it back free of charge.
Does anyone have any info on how one clean and lubes a belt drive? I can't seem to find any advice as to which weekly ritual is best? :D
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Does anyone have any info on how one clean and lubes a belt drive? I can't seem to find any advice as to which weekly ritual is best?
Yes, see: http://www.gatescarbondrive.com/resources/faqs
Best,
Dan.