Rohloff flange support rings

[mickeg]

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If I could take you up on that,:
My hub was rebuilt with all the spokes threaded through the flange in the same way, with all the spoke heads on the outside and 1x, which brings up several questions.
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I can't speak for Dave, but if that hub was on a wheel that was smaller than 26 inch, that might be why it is one cross instead of two.

[Dave Whittle Thorn Workshop]

My hub was rebuilt with all the spokes threaded through the flange in the same way, with all the spoke heads on the outside and 1x, which brings up several questions.
Firstly and purely out of curiosity, what's the reasoning behind this, was it experimental, did it have the desired effect and do you still do it? I've had no issues with it, thanks.
Then am I right in thinking this pattern should not be changed and that would exclude the addition on these rings*?
Lastly, I was thinking of having the rim changed, a vanity project as it has a heavier one than necessary** and I'm tempted to try tubeless, in light of your comment about it weakening the flange, am I better off forgetting that?

Yes we still do this now, it builds a strong wheel with low stress on the flange, if you look below its actually the path the spokes would follow if it was a smaller hub and 3x.

[PH]

Thanks for that, the diagram makes sense of it, though the spokes all the same way is still unexplained.
I recall reading, but can't remember where, that Rohloff thought 1X was the best option but didn't think wheel builders would do it and recommending 2X was a better way to make sure they weren't  built 3X.

[mickeg]

..., the diagram makes sense of it, though the spokes all the same way is still unexplained.
...

I can't speak for whomever did the work, but they might have been thinking that putting all spokes with the heads on the outside would mean that it had the same effect of putting the flanges a few mm closer to each other, making the spoke angle closer to perpendicular at the rim?

I never saw any hubs laced with all the heads on the outside until a few years ago when I occasionally saw a front wheel laced in a radial (zero cross) pattern.

The slip on rings that I added to my hub slide on from the outside, there is a thin flange on each ring that keeps the rings from going too far.  The rings are held in place by having spokes on the outside (heads on the inside of the hub shell flange) that hold them onto the hub shell.   If all spokes were laced with the heads on the outside, there would be nothing holding the rings on, thus they could fall off.

I am clueless on why the red shells are different than the non-red ones.   

[macspud]

Hi,

Just to add my 2p.

- Aftermarket slip fit rings only come in black.
- The factory/service centre fit rings come in 2 colours Black and Silver, service centres like us can fit either they are heated up in a controlled way and they dropped onto a cold hub which causes them to shrink.
- All new hubs come with black rings regardless of colour, silver is only an option on silver hubs and has to be specified by the OEM.
- Its NEVER worth un-building a wheel to fit them, simply fit them the next time you rebuild the wheel as each time they are re-built your weakening the flange (another reason to go CSS if using rim brakes)
- There is no evidence they add to the strength of the flange, all they do is enable you to finish your tour or get to a service centre as they ring will hold the broken pieces to together.

Feel free to ask any other questions.

Hello Dave,

Could you tell me, please. How much would it add to the cost off a wheel build to have the factory/service centre thermal expansion/shrink fit rings added to my Rohloff during a re-rim/build?

[Cruz]

Hi.
What type of material is used for these flange support rings?
Maybe would be better to make such rings with cnc machine with titanium or with other high quality material, that the inner diameter will fit tightly and perfect too.

[Dave Whittle Thorn Workshop]

Hello Dave,

Could you tell me, please. How much would it add to the cost off a wheel build to have the factory/service centre thermal expansion/shrink fit rings added to my Rohloff during a re-rim/build?

£9.99 each ring.

[JohnR]

I assumed the rings would fit on tightly, possibly needing some force considering that I still had nine spokes under tension on the hub shell flange.  But sliding the rings on was easier than expected.  I did the drive side first, it fell into place quite easily.  The non-drive side, I had to push the ring onto the shell flange, but finger pressure was adequate, no tools were needed to push the ring onto the flange.

I'm resurrecting this because today I fitted the support rings onto a hub which is going to be rebuilt with a 584 rim instead of a 622 rim. I was a little worried by the comments suggesting that the rings needed to be heated but my experience was the same as that reported by @mickeg: The rings can be pushed into place using fingers and thumbs and the flange on each ring stops them from going too far. I did the non-drive side first and the ring fitted into place easily but snugly. I then did the drive side and that was a much tighter fit and I'm wondering if the hub flange is slightly enlarged through use (but only about 6,500 miles of use and no heavy loads). The attached photo shows some wear on the flange adjacent to the flange holes on the drive side. I didn't notice anything similar on the other flange.

[PH]

I was a little worried by the comments suggesting that the rings needed to be heated

I don't know why you'd have thought that, back a few posts on this thread:

- Aftermarket slip fit rings only come in black.
- The factory/service centre fit rings come in 2 colours Black and Silver, service centres like us can fit either they are heated up in a controlled way and they dropped onto a cold hub which causes them to shrink.

How are you re-building?  I'm not sure whether it's better to try and get a close match, or stay away from previous wear so the spoke is against fresh metal. I did the latter on my Airnimal 24" wheel, even though it puts the oil screw in an awkward place.   Either way, I'd be tempted to smooth the burrs before starting.
What's the project?

[JohnR]

The wheel rebuild is for my Elan Rohloff (which is now an Elan Ti Rohloff for greater comfort). The wheels from the donor bike used 622 rims but I've decided after over 3k miles that slightly smaller wheels would be beneficial. The two main reasons are (i) with optimum saddle to pedal spacing I struggle to get more than a toe on the ground when stopped and (ii) there will be more space between saddle and rear mudguard for baggage.