Author Topic: why we shouldn't cycle with helmets  (Read 23730 times)

bikerwaser

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why we shouldn't cycle with helmets
« on: January 09, 2015, 07:48:36 PM »
Sorry if seen before but i think it's soooo good :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07o-TASvIxY

Audax hopeful

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Re: why we shouldn't cycle with helmets
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2015, 03:15:05 PM »
I've not seen that presentation before, but it fits really well with my own thoughts on cycling and helmets!! Pressure from my wife and neighbours (especially as I often take their sons of 10 and 12 on bike rides) means I do use a helmet most of the time, but I don't believe it serves any real purpose. Wearing helmets in cars has always seemed to me to be a much more relevant idea, and statistically of much greater potential benefit!! Cycle helmets scream the message "cycling is unsafe!" when it is far more likely to prolong your life than shorten it!!

leftpoole

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Re: why we shouldn't cycle with helmets
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2015, 06:30:19 PM »
I've not seen that presentation before, but it fits really well with my own thoughts on cycling and helmets!! Pressure from my wife and neighbours (especially as I often take their sons of 10 and 12 on bike rides) means I do use a helmet most of the time, but I don't believe it serves any real purpose. Wearing helmets in cars has always seemed to me to be a much more relevant idea, and statistically of much greater potential benefit!! Cycle helmets scream the message "cycling is unsafe!" when it is far more likely to prolong your life than shorten it!!

You have obviously never come off and whacked your head? I have, with a helmet split asunder! It hurts but I'm alive.
In my own opinion, anyone who eschews helmets is a bit silly really.
Regards,
John

bikerwaser

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Re: why we shouldn't cycle with helmets
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2015, 07:08:32 PM »
I've not seen that presentation before, but it fits really well with my own thoughts on cycling and helmets!! Pressure from my wife and neighbours (especially as I often take their sons of 10 and 12 on bike rides) means I do use a helmet most of the time, but I don't believe it serves any real purpose. Wearing helmets in cars has always seemed to me to be a much more relevant idea, and statistically of much greater potential benefit!! Cycle helmets scream the message "cycling is unsafe!" when it is far more likely to prolong your life than shorten it!!

Yes , you only have to watch the presentation and know about the factual data on it to agree. As it says, you're as or more likely to have a head injury as a pedestrian or gardening and driving is a lot more dangerous.
Well, there's a choice to wear one or not.
By choice i will never wear one.

Bikerwaser

energyman

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Re: why we shouldn't cycle with helmets
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2015, 08:12:02 PM »
Daughter in law worked in hospital and saw, amongst other things, bicycle heads with and without helmets.  She always wears a helmet when cycling. QED

I of course only wear one 'cos it makes me look cool  :D

Swislon

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Re: why we shouldn't cycle with helmets
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2015, 08:49:57 PM »
I'd prefer not to wear one as I love the freedom of wind in my hair.
However I'm with John on this one as I have fallen and seen friends fall where the helmet has saved a much worse injury. First thing Paramedic asks "were you wearing a helmet"?
It should be personal choice.
My choice is I'll wear a helmet.

Ride safe out there......
Steve

Andre Jute

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Re: why we shouldn't cycle with helmets
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2015, 11:23:49 PM »
I'm extremely lightskinned and so need to wear a hat when I leave the house anyway. So I wear a bicycle helmet.

But I would wear it anyway, on this logic: Both my little fingers have been broken in headers, but my face has in each instance been saved from road rash, disfigurement or plastic surgery by the helmet; my spectacles have never been broken cycling precisely because I wear a helmet with a visor.

I've put a statistical evaluation of the comparative dangers of cycling and the reasons for wearing a helmet into another thread at http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=10441.0
« Last Edit: January 10, 2015, 11:32:01 PM by Andre Jute »

j1of1

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Re: why we shouldn't cycle with helmets
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2015, 01:07:04 AM »
Hmmm.  My wife use to ride without a helmet until I inisisted she ride with a helmet or I wouldn't ride with her anymore.   Shortly thereafter when we were on a ride in Vermont (USA) she was hit by car and dumped onto the road - with her head hitting the ground first.  The helmet took the brunt of the crash - cracked in half.  Some road rash but no head injuries because of the helmet.

If someone wants to ride without a helmet that is okay with me - it is a personal choice, but don't expect to ride with me as I don't want to assume responsibility for any head injuries that may occur if you aren't wearing a helmet and we are in the middle of nowhere.

onrbikes

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Re: why we shouldn't cycle with helmets
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2015, 01:08:50 AM »
I do agree that there shouldn't be "another" law for something, ie wearing a helmet. But if it's your fault, and you're hurt or killed, stiff bickies if you want any form of payout. Too many people sue someone else, for that 'big' payout.

We as humans need to start taking responsibility for our own actions/stupidity/bad luck.

Hypothetically, you as a driver have an unforeseen accident with a cyclist and he gets seriously injured on the head? Wouldn't it be fairer to you (mentally and financially) if he'd been wearing a helmet. The risks would've been a lot lower. Remember its not always the motorists fault. Kinda like motorists having to wear a seat belt.

I now work in an industry where safety is well over board, to the point where I as a tradesman, need to be verified that I'm able to safely operate an battery powered drill. If and when I hurt myself using the drill, would my own when it comes to any form of compensation. Because lets face it, we all take risks, and sometimes injure ourselves.

I initially hated being told by the Australian government I had to wear a helmet, but now would never get on my bike, and cycle amongst traffic without. The times I've come off the bike and hit my head (while wearing a helmet) am grateful to have been wearing one.

Remember its not just you that'll suffer. Your family members may be the ones spoon feeding you, or in pain from your unnecessary death.

triaesthete

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Re: why we shouldn't cycle with helmets
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2015, 11:00:18 AM »
 "Hypothetically, you as a driver have an unforeseen accident with a cyclist and he gets seriously injured on the head? Wouldn't it be fairer to you (mentally and financially) if he'd been wearing a helmet. The risks would've been a lot lower. Remember its not always the motorists fault. Kinda like motorists having to wear a seat belt."

Got to think of the poor old motorist  :D   Fairer still if all those cyclists would get out of the way.

 Choosing to use 2000kg of steel to move 100kg of human is a failure at any level if a systems thinking approach is adopted.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systems_thinking

bikerwaser

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Re: why we shouldn't cycle with helmets
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2015, 01:42:16 PM »
Using Denmark as a guide they use their bikes roughly twice as much on a regular basis as us in the UK and yet in the chart below it shows that their cyclist fatalities are a 1/4 of ours which in real terms is an 1/8 of ours.

http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1258.html

http://www.cycling-embassy.dk/facts-about-cycling-in-denmark/statistics/

http://www.ctc.org.uk/resources/ctc-cycling-statistics

So what is the main difference between us and them ? better drivers which give respect to cyclists ?, better infrastructure so we don't have to share our journeys with cars ? or something else ?
It certainly isn't helmets as they ( like us ) don't have the helmet law.

Aside from this i'm surprised how many people are just simply falling off their bikes. I've been cycling for almost 40 years and, apart from once when i was MTB'ing and acting like a total dingbat, i've never fallen off my bike(touch wood). maybe stabilizers should be issued to all wobbly cyclists too. it would make it all so much safer ! Lol !

 

Slammin Sammy

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Re: why we shouldn't cycle with helmets
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2015, 01:43:05 PM »
Like Andre, I wear a helmet, because I'd be wearing a hat anyway - not enough hair on top to prevent the tiger stripe tan!  :D

But I am aware that compulsory helmet laws dissuade people from cycling, and even the Australian Heart Foundation has recommended they be abolished in the interests of increased public health. There are no such rules in the most cycle friendly places like Copenhagen and Amsterdam, and the statistics simply do not bear out the anecdotal evidence presented here. Helmets may prevent some injuries, but not even all head injuries, and there is some evidence they can actually aggravate some trauma.

Whilst all Australian jurisdictions now require the wearing of helmets, I am seeing an increasing trend of ignoring the rule, especially amongst the young "urban" cyclists, who are probably the fastest growing group.

Note that this group exhibits far riskier behaviour that not wearing helmets. A young girl rode past my house this morning upright on a step through bike with a long pretty dress (beating against the rear wheel and spokes) , no helmet, phone in one hand and texting as she rode. I think the dress and phone is going to get her into more trouble than the lack of helmet! :o

Andre Jute

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Re: why we shouldn't cycle with helmets
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2015, 02:44:32 PM »
The Danes and the Dutch don't need mandatory helmet laws because they have a bicycle culture. "I never saw the cyclist standing at the stop sign," in the automobile-centred jurisdictions will get the motorist who killed or maimed a cyclist off with commisserations from the magistrate for his sleepless nights; in The Netherlands he'll be facing a manslaughter charge and have to prove he took every precaution not to run over a cyclist. It's a fundamental shift in the onus of proof that translates to wideranging differences in road behavior.

In the jurisdictions with a bicycle culture they cycle slower anyway than eg Americans do; Americans who commute are the inheritors of a road-racing culture that started with the Peugeot 10-speed in the 1970, and one often finds American commuters making ludicrous statements about a cyclist's "duty" of keeping up with traffic, meaning automobile traffic. The British commuting ethos, such as it is, too derives from road racing, and aims at fast transits. The Dutch commute at 15kph, a recent study found. Add that difference to the cycling culture enforced on automobilists (who are very likely in other parts of their lives to be cyclist too), and the requirement for a helmet appears in a totally different perspective. It would very likely be counterproductive to force the Dutch to wear cycling helmets, as the inconvenience to routine bicycle users of carrying a helmet into their daily affairs could drive many of them onto other forms of transport. (This is the same argument as the one for not forcing people riding metro rental bikes to wear helmets.)

That just scratches the differences, but I can't resist adding that according to a Dutch friend with 7 or 8 bikes I wish he would send me (just saying!), the Dutch anyway wear helmets already whenever the occasion calls for it, which he defines as being on his road bike, especially training at night, or riding offroad in icy conditions; his photographs show that his mates do the same.

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I'm not at all impressed by claims that mandatory helmet laws keep anyone from cycling. Those who want to commute will find a way to deal with the helmet. Those who will benefit most from the helmet, the casual cyclists, will either cycle or they won't, and the helmet has very little to do with it. As for putting kids off cycling by a helmet requirement, so what? If they won't wear the helmet, it is better for them not to be on a bike on the streets. The only place where there is a sound argument against helmets, is in pick-up-here-leave-there metro rental bike, where you really can't expect people to lug around a helmet on the offchance of wanting to rent a bike, and the hygiene implications of publicly shared helmets are shudder-making.

The question really isn't whether mandatory cycling laws will keep anyone from cycling (if they won't wear the seatbelt, we don't want them driving because they're likely to do it in an antisocial manner; the argument for helmets is the same), but whether they're necessary and/or where they are necessary.

***

In fact, mandatory helmet laws are altogether a distraction, a bodge. The true question is whether any particular society wants to be an automobile culture or a bicycle culture, or, more practically in most, whether it wants bicycles on its roads at all, and how it proposes to share the space.

ipswichcycler

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Re: why we shouldn't cycle with helmets
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2015, 02:46:27 PM »
I nearly always wear a helmet. The one I have is comfy and at a shallow level it was expensive so I want some use out of it.  In town I also always were a hi-viz vest as in some places it seems like people actually try to pull in and cut me up or pull out with no knowledge of me.  

Is it a bit of a faff?   We'll a little bit but I I've come from riding a motorbike where you wear armoured gloves, armoured boots, armoured jacket, armoured trousers and a helmet and you pay hundred of pounds per year to insure your vehicle.  So in comparison it's pretty free and easy.  The freedom of a bicycle, the silence of operation, the wind between your toes and riding at a speed where you are really immersed in the world around are all big draws to cycling for me.

Safe journeys.


Pavel

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Re: why we shouldn't cycle with helmets
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2015, 02:32:57 AM »
There is a good case for making cyclists wear motorcycle leathers as well, I'm sure, but basically if one is that aware of ones possible mortality, maybe it's time to join the safe side and drive a car.  Oh ... wait a minute?? Don't cars kill more people than anything else?  Dang.  How about some bubble wrap and stay inside watching tv and drinking beer.  I do believe in helmets after six or more beers, however. Helps with the wife especially.

But personally, the day after they make helmets on bicycles mandatory ... my bikes will go up for sale, no maybe or second thoughts about it.