Click, Click , Bloody Click . . .

[ROBO]

Frog,  I don't know what pedal/shoe combination you use but the clicking could be due to movement between the cleats and the pedal or even between the pedal body and spindle, as I once had.  When the cranks are vertical the forces on each pedal change from a push to a pull and visa versa, so any play between shoe and pedal or within the pedal bearings will be most noticable.  Interestingly I recently adjusted the chain on my Raven and not wanting to overtighten the EBB bolts, had one work loose allowing the EBB to move slightly with each revolution of the crank.  This did not create an audible click but felt like a crank arm had come loose.

[frog]

I could have sworn I started this in General???  

Anyway,  the story  so far.  There is enough noise coming from in between my feet to give me the impression my BB is on it's way out.  The clicks are more random now and come whatever the pressure on the pedals.  Based on this I think I should swap out the BB as a first step.  

Please can anyone tell me what Shimano BB the Thorn Raven Tour comes with?  It looks to be a simple job of swapping out but has anyone any experience of pitfalls they've encountered doing this?

Finally, is there a BB which is the same size but higher spec I can put in instead?

I've got a Shimano crank removing tool (screw within a larger screw).  Is this the right one for removing Thorn cranks?

Many Thanks in anticipation.

[PH]

According to the order sheet, they come with a Shimano UN53.  That's pretty decent quality, part of the LX range, when replacing an extra fiver will get you a UN73 which is XT.  Your crank puller will be fine.  Before you invest in a new BB take the cranks off, clean and grease the square tapers and replace, some people say you shouldn't grease them but it's worked for me in the past, just another possibility!
I'd be surprised if it was the BB causing your problems, they usually last 10,000s of miles without any trouble.  The only time I've had them fail it's been a grinding noise rather than a click and you could feel it through the pedals.  As you say it's something to eliminate, without spending that much if you've already got the tools.

A cautionary tale - We were talking about odd noises on a club ride, somebody had had a drivtrain noise for weeks, it stopped when his handlebars snapped!  

[frog]

Thanks PH!  I'm driving myself into a bit of a corner here.  I'd be delighted to get this problem fixed in one go because I use the bike 5 days a week for commute and recreation.  I'm pretty sure that I've damaged the BB (see above for my botched attempt at adjusting the chain tension).  All my woes have got progressively worse since then.  I just want to have as much close at hand when I start to strip it all down tomorrow.  

I'm looking at this as a self-inflicted wound rather than a breakdown of a component.  Even if that wasn't the case I still class sealed BBs as consumable along with brake blocks and tyres.  If you treat them right they'll last.  If you don't - and I suspect I'm the guilty party here - you have to dip into wallet to learn from the mistake  []

That is a very scary tale of the handlebars  [:0]  I'm coming to the conclusion that cycling is good for you physically but can seriouly damage your mental health with worry over what's going to go wrong next []

Thanks ROBO for the pedal/cleat advice.  My pedals are speedplay frogs.  Bearings are squirt through/mop up grease so they're always full of clean lubricant.  The cleats are well tight into the shoe and the adjusting screw is fine.  Having said that they'll get a once over tomorrow as well.  I'm turning click, click into check, check - this could lead to OCD at this rate[}:)]

[stutho]

If it is clicking not grinding it is unlikely to be the bb bearings but it could be the BB moving slightly in the EBB try removing and refitting the BB – clean the threads and lock tight them.

Is the BB a square taper or octolink model? – I have here of problems with splined  (sp?) cranks cracking internally on the splines. (Hopefully this is not the case)

[stutho]

Try looking here

[frog]

Just when you think you've got it all sorted . . .

I was outside the bike shop at 09:00 this morning waiting for it to open.  Got my UN53 (I asked if he had a Rohloff chain but the look I got back said it all).

Got home and started to gently strip the cranks etc down.  Every thing came off with the necessary amount of gently, but firmly, applied pressure and cleaned up fine.  Pedals were OK, cranks OK, chain I managed to drop in the muck a few times before I wrestled the link apart  [].  

It was when I got the EBB out I started to have trouble.  The old star shaped spanner fitted a treat but there was no way I could generate the necessary torque to get it undone.[:0]

We'd moved house a few months ago and my bench, vice were binned and my stilsons were still in one of the many boxes dispersed about the house.  So, I had to content myself with a good clean and regrease.  

On the good side it gave me a chance to see just how meaty the EBB is and on the bad there were my two holes on the thin side of the wall staring back at me []

The bike is back in one bit again and awaiting tomorrow's ride to see what's changed.

[PH]

Apologies if I’ve missed something obvious, why would you remove the EBB to remove the BB?  I haven’t needed to do it yet, but I’d have thought leaving it in the bike and treating it as any other BB would be easier.
After all you've done, my money is still on it being the chain!

[freddered]

My money is also on the chain.  In my previous reply I said that I got a clicking noise after refitting the chain (I think I refitted it upside-down to it's original orientation).  Refitting it fixed it.

A few days ago I got a rear puncture.  After refitting the rear wheel I now have a similar clicking every couple of revolutions of the cranks (but not exactly every 2 turns).  Uphill and under load you can hear/feel the click more.  I haven't had time to inspect the chain yet but I'm expecting my new "Wipperman Connex Intrax 7Z1 Anti Rust Chain" from Wiggle this week (supposedly for hub-geared bikes).  

I'll report back and let you know if it made a difference.

[frog]

Apologies for not replying earlier.  It's been one of those weeks!!

The reason I removed the EBB as a whole was brought about by my fear of doing some damage to the rest of the bike.  The stand I keep the bike in is just a display one and can't take much force.  To remove the cranks I had either hand on pedal/ 12" 'T' bar on the extractor and the cross bar against the top of my head to balance the whole thing.  The front wheel was jammed between a redundant fridge and weashing machine.  Pressure was very gently applied so a constant balance was achieved.  Having suceeded once I thought I was pushing my luck to try to generate the same amount of torque with nothing to balance the push against now the cranks were off.  I had hoped that I could use a strap wrench as a windlass to remove the mounting nuts but that failed.  The only thing missing was a drum roll and a ring master [)]

As I've got more than a few votes for the chain - and I've got the necessaries to do that - I think I'll have a crack at that next.  Having said that the bike does seem a bit quieter this week but there are some regular clicks in with the random ones.

So, new chain, Rohloff 99-8, lubricant and chain tool ordered and we'll see what happens next []

[freddered]

New chain.   Clicking gone.

[frog]

New chain, tool and oil arrived. Had loads of fun with the chain tool and nadgered up a few links at the end of the chain practicing with it.  eventually got it sussed and then used the old chain as a measure for the new, matching link for link rather than just going for the overall length.

I think I've got it done fine, even taking the stiffness out of the joining link with a reverse one eight turn.  I'm putting the chain tool and spare links in the tool kit so if I've made a real mess of it I can sit by the roadside and knit myself a new one out of the bits  []

looking forward for a quite ride in the morning []

[frog]

The Thorn Raven Super Stealth is back!!  [8D]

Had two days of super quiet commutes.  The SRAM chain lasted 3428 miles - which is three times longer than I'd expect from the same chain fitted onto a derailleur bike.  Despite the noise from it the chain gauge still said it was with tolerance and useable.  Pity I can't pass it off to an owner of those strange open-air gear thingies (it's only 98 links).  After all they're more used to the noise than I am [}:)][][]

[geocycle]

Just want to report another forum success.  Like Frog I've been plagued with ICRPDS (irritating click on the right pedal downstroke syndrome) for the last three weeks.  After checking all the usual things (cleaned the chain, eccentric adjustment, pedals, cranks, chain-ring bolts) I took freddered's advice and reversed and inverted the chain. Today, perfect silence -bliss!  Very pleased as I've only done 1600 miles on the PC48 chain that came with the bike and I'd hoped to get at least double this on the rohloff based on previous chain wear on derailleur bikes.

[geocycle]

Agh, spoke to soon.  The click returned after some serious hill work.  Tried a new chain (PC68) but that didn't fix it so attention now focussed on the BB...