17kg is quite heavy, although the bar bag must be a kilo. My raven tour was around 15-16 kg.
For comparison's sake, my 590M Nomad (dry) and with only the underseat bag attached comes in right at 20kg total as pictured in the gallery.
My favorite derailleur rando bike is 14.5kg (considered a bit heavy for that use, but it is fine in practice).
Yep, the HB bags can add a surprising amount, and include the bracket as well as the bag.
I don't find rohloff driven bikes heavy overall and especially when riding
<nods> Good point, Geo'. Unless one is accelerating a lot (the commuter's stop light drag race) or has a lot of hills, even a heavier bike will go along well at a steady state. The Rohloff itself isn't that much more than the accumulated mass of a derailleur drivetrain. Geo's right; it's more the placement of the weight that causes any notice.
Best,
Dan.