Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Rohloff Internal Hub Gears => Topic started by: beagley on April 20, 2023, 06:41:50 PM
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My 18 year old Thorn Raven's Rohloff hub has started misbehaving. Gears 8 and 10 are slipping occasionally. (By slipping I mean no resistance to the pedals.) Typically slips for about a second before suddenly engaging. In gear 8 the problem happens most often when setting-off from stationary (very disconcerting when intending to dart assertively into a gap in traffic!). In gear 10 the problem occurs randomly while steadily pedalling along but typically slips for a shorter period (less than a second). Also, while pedalling along in gear 8 only there's an occasional click (randomly every half hour or so) that can be felt through the pedals; feels like a micro slip.
Was worse in the cold weather. Oil change improved things a bit but problem remains.
Apart from this I've never had any issues with this hub (apart from a cracked shell which SJS identified as a known manufacturing issue and replaced free of charge even though the bike was well out of warranty by the time the defect emerged).
The bike is old but it's only been used as a utility bike, doing maybe 2000 miles a year (so about 36,000 miles in total). Oil changed annually.
Interested to know (1) if anyone recognises the symptoms and (2) any recommendations for who I might send it to to get it fixed. Hoping to get another 18 years out of it ;)
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I have no advice for you. But I am curious, from your description, the slipping did not occur immediately after a gear shift. Is that correct?
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Don't get your hopes too high and I'm not making promises, but...
The most likely cause of slipping gears is the pawls not engaging and the cure for that is to replace the springs, a simple job and readily available spares are £3
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/hub-spares/rohloff-pawl-springs-for-speedhub-50014-8275/
I've needed to do two of my hubs, though I don't recall they were slipping in specific gears, but it was most often when pulling away or after a change. I don't remember any clicks either. It might not be that at all, but for the sake of a couple of quid, you may as well try.
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I’ve experienced occasional problems one might describe as slipping and in my cases it seemed to be caused by a damaged gear cable (frayed internally causing intermittent snagging of the cable when shifting) that was the culprit on first slipping issues. A year or so later I had similar problems. I assumed cable so was going to replace cables but all was good. I noticed that one of my gear cable adjuster screws must have shifted gradually on its own to imbalance the other cable when they pull against each other. Just adjusting the tension on the too loose cable fixed my problem that time.
My hub is with internal gear mech so I’m not sure this solution would apply to external mech systems.
Nonetheless, I had no idea what pawl springs were nor what they do. I might just pick up a set to have on hand and replace on my 10+ year old hub if I have the wheel off for other reasons.
Found this on the internet with photos someone took of there replacing these after similar problems. https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/rohloff-skipping-problem-solved-surprisingly-easily/?utm_content=cmp-true (https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/rohloff-skipping-problem-solved-surprisingly-easily/?utm_content=cmp-true)
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beagley.
Further to PH's advice above, I researched how to change the pawl springs and came upon this video. There may be better videos out there but I posted this one as the guy seems to have had a problem similar to yours, plus he has an issue undoing the torx screws. I've heard of a number of people being in the same pickle.
https://youtu.be/eVhzQbLSOHQ
As said, it is an easy job. I have had that lot apart (researching an oil leak) and to be honest I didn't realise that those little springs were the pawl springs. Amazing what you learn here eh?
PERSONALLY If I was doing this job I would change the little paper gaskets - this little kit comes complete with gaskets and a new set of torx screws which I would also change if they had never been out before.
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/hub-spares/rohloff-paper-gasket-kit-for-axle-ring-with-axle-plate-screws-for-speedhub-50014-8714/
If you do change the pawl springs, please pop back and let us know if they resolved the issue?
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https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/rohloff-skipping-problem-solved-surprisingly-easily/?utm_content=cmp-true (https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/rohloff-skipping-problem-solved-surprisingly-easily/?utm_content=cmp-true)
Don't let Dan see the photographs of Mr Teacake's bike and Rohloff HGB. He'll have a heart attack on the spot.
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I presume that the springs in question are those visible in the 4th photo of the first post here http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=14788.0.
Is there enough oil / gease to keep the springs moving freely?
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... I am curious, from your description, the slipping did not occur immediately after a gear shift. Is that correct?
I guess there would tend to be a preceding gear shift before setting-off in gear 8. But in gear 10, no - it slips randomly while steadily pedalling along.
The most likely cause of slipping gears is the pawls not engaging and the cure for that is to replace the springs
As the guy says in the video Tiberius linked to: "these springs are so cheap, why not try it?". So I shall.
There are also some useful comments under that video, especially one by a Paul Moir who lists several common causes of slipping gears:
"incorrectly tensioned cables (no freeplay), thickened oil or lack of the regular oil change (dirty oil, non-oem oil or extreme cold), the oil drain screw tightened too deep (below the shell surface) and hitting against the clutch ring or the main axle tightened in excess of the recommended (max. 7Nm for quick-release skewer, and max. 35Nm for the threaded axle)".
I'm at a loss to understand how quick-release skewer tightness can affect hub operation. If anyone can explain this I'd be grateful.
Thanks for all the replies. I'll report back when I've replaced the pawl springs (and checked my quick-release skewer tightness).
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PERSONALLY If I was doing this job I would change the little paper gaskets - this little kit comes complete with gaskets and a new set of torx screws which I would also change if they had never been out before.
Good point, I've changed gaskets whenever I've had that apart, haven't changed the screws, though as that kit is the same price as the gaskets I will next time around.
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Springs that are under compression will slowly deform. I can see how the springs could get weaker over time. My hub was built in 2013 or 2014 and I have not had any such problems, but I can see how a hub that is more than a decade older than mine could have some springs that have lost some of their ability to hold the pawls tight.
And I just recalled as I typed the above paragraph, in 2019, I thought I had a bit of slippage a couple of times while on a tour. I could not remember why one generic remedy was to give a good whack to the drive side axle with the wheel out of the bike, but because I could not remember what that did, I pulled the wheel out and gave it a good whack with the rubber sole of my hiking shoe (did not kick it, used the shoe like a rubber mallet by hand). And I did not have any slippage after that. Since then, I learned that the "whack" with a rubber mallet was intended to reseat bearings and should not have anything to do with slippage. I just did a google search for Rohloff Hub rubber mallet, found a few hits, pasted this from a Rohloff manual:
The hub bearing within the
hubshell is a fixed bearing and the
hub bearing on the sprocket side is
a movable bearing. During the
replacement of the gearbox, the
movable bearing could get strained
(the outer race does not move
parallel with the inner race due to
friction created against the hub
casing). By hitting the axle pegs
with a rubber mallet, the inner and
outer races of the bearing will be
brought back into line. The
sprocket should spin freely when
rotated backwards once it is
correctly seated.
But, it appeared to have worked for me back in 2019, so you could give that a try too.
Rohloff over time has made slight changes to the hub components, I would not be surprised if they have switched to a longer or stronger spring.
I hope that springs and not pawls are the issue. I had a 1968 Triumph T100R motorcycle that I drove for about 12 years. At one time in the mid 1970s, replacement parts were extremely hard to obtain from the factory and for several months I needed a new kick starter pawl. It was only a tiny piece of steel, but because it was too worn I could not use the kick starter to start my engine. I had to push start it, which was most inconvenient.
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The area with those pawl springs appears to be the same general area that I had planned to fill up with grease when I did my next oil change in the hopes of reducing leakage. But I can easily see how adding any viscous grease would make the pawl springs a bit slower to respond when coasting.
So, maybe adding grease to that area is a bad idea?
In other words where JohnR asked: Is there enough oil / gease to keep the springs moving freely?, my concern is the opposite, would viscous grease be counter productive?
I should be doing an oil change in the next few weeks, I will keep this in mind. I plan to open it up and see if there is an obvious way to reduce leakage but I am now less inclined to add grease.
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There are also some useful comments under that video, especially one by a Paul Moir who lists several common causes of slipping gears:
He crops up with useful advise on social media quite often, it may have been him who advised me to try swapping pawl springs, for those that didn't know, he's the Austrailian Rohloff distributor, so is not without some expertise.
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Springs that are under compression will slowly deform. I can see how the springs could get weaker over time. My hub was built in 2013 or 2014 and I have not had any such problems, but I can see how a hub that is more than a decade older than mine could have some springs that have lost some of their ability to hold the pawls tight.
That's a horrid thought, that a Rohloff may wear merely from age, rather than use or abuse.
Happy to hear the replacement parts are cheap and readily available, and that the fitting process simple.
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There's a Rohloff FAQ for this problem https://www.rohloff.de/en/service/handbook/faqs which includes:
- Gearbox oil too thick - Carry out an oil change with an intensive rinsing,
- The SPEEDHUB 500/14 axle is secured too tightly into the frame which could damage internal components.
- Oil drain screw is re-inserted too deep following an oil change. Now places pressure upon internal transmission components.
- Check that both freewheel springs are present and seated correctly see Owners Manual "Repairs" 1.1 and "Service" 5.3.
Some of these have already been mentioned.
I would also note that if the hub has the external shift box then also make sure is well-packed with grease. Rohloff recommends that the face of the ex-box facing the hub is re-greased every 500km https://www.rohloff.de/en/service/handbook/speedhub/maintenance/maintanance-tips .
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Springs that are under compression will slowly deform. I can see how the springs could get weaker over time. My hub was built in 2013 or 2014 and I have not had any such problems, but I can see how a hub that is more than a decade older than mine could have some springs that have lost some of their ability to hold the pawls tight.
That's a horrid thought, that a Rohloff may wear merely from age, rather than use or abuse.
Happy to hear the replacement parts are cheap and readily available, and that the fitting process simple.
Am I correct in thinking that those 2 springs are only used with the ex-box?
Best
Matt
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Am I correct in thinking that those 2 springs are only used with the ex-box?
Best
Matt
No. the pawls and their springs are identical regardless of shifting mechanism.
You can see them in this vid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGNFZjavXcI
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Am I correct in thinking that those 2 springs are only used with the ex-box?
Best
Matt
No. the pawls and their springs are identical regardless of shifting mechanism.
You can see them in this vid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGNFZjavXcI
Thanks. A great video.
I have no issues with my hub but is changing the pawl springs considered part of a planned preventative maintenance schedule?
My hub is from around 2008.
Just about run in nicely.
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is changing the pawl springs considered part of a planned preventative maintenance schedule?
I've never seen that recommended and haven't done so myself.
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The freewheel springs (sometimes referred to as pawl springs) and paper gaskets arrived today so I set to work. While disassembling it became apparent that the inner gear change cable is frayed and needs replacing. (I assume the part I need is https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/hub-spares/rohloff-speedhub-50014-spare-hub-cables-cc-ts-internal-8271/). Not looking forward to this job; done it once before and struggled. If anyone can recommend a good video and/or any tips for wrapping the cable round the spiral bobbin thing I'd be most grateful.
So now wondering whether this might have been the cause of the slipping gears.
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It is difficult to believe that those two little springs are the main freewheel pawl springs for the wheel. They are axial rather than radial and too few. Perhaps the 2 springs are relevant to the gear cam? My rohloff has 15000 miles and going strong, but always interested in information that may help future repairs.
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.... While disassembling it became apparent that the inner gear change cable is frayed and needs replacing. (I assume the part I need is https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/hub-spares/rohloff-speedhub-50014-spare-hub-cables-cc-ts-internal-8271/). Not looking forward to this job; done it once before and struggled. If anyone can recommend a good video and/or any tips for wrapping the cable round the spiral bobbin thing I'd be most grateful.
So now wondering whether this might have been the cause of the slipping gears.
Yes that's what you need and I think it highly likely a frayed cable was the original cause of the problem.
I've only changed an internal once (maybe twice) it is a fiddley job, I just followed the Rohloff instructions, I have someone hold the ends of the cable, mainly to keep them out the way, but also gently under tension. Alternatively, you can build the complete thing outside the hub and insert as one, I think I'd have done it this way if I'd needed to again, you just have to be sure you cut the cable the right length. Rohloff sell a complete quick ring replacement kit, but it's expensive for the times you'll use it.
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/hub-spares/rohloff-hub-cable-easy-set-8573/
The external parts are different, two cables and the parts are bigger, the size of the pulley makes it less fiddley.
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It is difficult to believe that those two little springs are the main freewheel pawl springs for the wheel. They are axial rather than radial and too few. Perhaps the 2 springs are relevant to the gear cam? My rohloff has 15000 miles and going strong, but always interested in information that may help future repairs.
Have you downloaded Rohloff's exploded diagram? You can see the springs and their purpose in that:
https://www.rohloff.de/de/erleben/technik-im-detail/explosion
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In that graphic, parts numbered 31 and 42 are pawls and springs, 44 is called a freewheel spring. If you look at the right hand side of gear number 37 and also gear 38 and the left hand side of gear number 14, that also appears to function as a pawl.
I can't figure out what is going on in that diagram and I have looked at diagrams like that since before I bought my Rohloff almost a decade ago. So, I am inclined to believe just about anything.
But back to the topic of this thread, those two springs, numbered 44 in the graphic, they are called freewheel springs, thus I am inclined to believe that they could cause gear slippage if they are not functioning right, simply because of their name.
When I am coasting, as I change gears I hear different sets of pawls or clutches engage or disengage, especially when shifting between 7 and 8, so there are lots of different things going on that could cause some slippage.
Ph, thanks for the graphic, most pertinent here.
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OK, so after replacing the two freewheel springs, the frayed inner gear change cable and, while I was at it, the two paper gaskets, the net result is [drum roll please]: gears are slipping worse than ever! In fact gears 8 and 10 and now permanently in neutral. And now that the problem is more easily reproduced (like 100% of the time) it's now evident that gears 1 and 3 are not working either (which of course is not surprising since, ignoring the reduction drive, they are the same as 8 and 10 respectively).
My first though was that maybe I didn't fit the springs correctly. But then I remembered that on re-seating the axle ring I could feel a nice reassuring springiness as the two pegs that protrude from the inner face of the axle ring entered the holes where the springs live.
Tried increasing the gear change cables' freeplay (making the gear changer more 'loosey goosey'). No change.
Checked the QR skewer tightness was 7Nm.
Examined the oil drain grub screw to check not tightened too deep. Looks fine to me (about 1mm protruding, see photo).
Unless anyone can suggest anything else I should check, I think maybe it's time to send the hub away for some professional attention. Any suggestions? I remember seeing an ad in Cycling UK's magazine offering "Rohloff servicing" but I don't keep my old issues.
Beagley
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I am completely out of ideas.
Good luck.
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Did you check and possibly change the gear cables from bayonet to twist grip? You already found the one in the hub was frayed and new cable inners are cheap and are potentially a solution .
Also, did you do oil change recently and screw grub screw too far in? I think this can also cause gear issues.
Hopefully it is not the hub itself.
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I remember seeing an ad in Cycling UK's magazine offering "Rohloff servicing" but I don't keep my old issues.
Beagley
What a shame, worth trying though there were no guarantees.
Rohloff list three UK service centres, Cumbria, Manchester and of course Bridgewater. I'd take it to one of it's in easy traveling distance, but if you have to post it I think I'd go for Thorn, I doubt the others have the same level of experience, or the same relationship with Rohloff. I've been to the Manchester one, Keep Pedalling, an interesting shop, I'd have had them build my Surly if they'd been able to get stock.
I think I know the one advertising in Cycle, possibly in Norwich, I won't name them in case I'm wrong. PM me if you're in that area, you can give them a ring, though as above they're not listed as a service center.
Good luck
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Did you try manually stepping through the gears without the shifter in place (I think you can use a spanner on the end of the shaft where the pinion fits)? This should confirm if the problem is in the hub. There's part 2 of the video linked to above which reveals one cause of shifting problems https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4OmG8T7Uec.
Googling for "rohloff hub gears slipping" provides several hits both in this forum (eg http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=3338.0) and other places (eg https://www.mtbr.com/threads/rohloff-skipping.622009/). Hitting the end of the axle with a rubber mallet has sometimes fixed shifting problems!
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Thanks for the latest suggestions.
Tried disconnecting the gear change cables. No change.
Tried hitting the drive-side axle with rubber mallet (a few good wallops). No change.
But I did notice something very interesting: The problem seemed to go away when the bike was upside down for wheel removal! Investigated this further with the wheel removed. With the wheel upright and the gear change cables pointing at 12 o'clock - it slips. With the gear change cables pointing to 3 o'clock through to 6 o'clock - it engages. Then moving to 9 o'clock it starts slips again. I know this sounds incredible so I made a video: https://youtu.be/6XG0zu4_i3k
It feels like this could be a useful clue. Does it suggest something subtle going on within the axle ring (containing the inner gear cable)? Note that the problem got markedly worse yesterday after replacing the inner cable in the axle ring.
Beagley
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I did not look at your video, but I might have an idea what the problem is.
THis link that Ph previously posted has a graphic:
https://www.rohloff.de/de/erleben/technik-im-detail/explosion
Part number 41 is a pawl that is attached to the axle, there are four of them.
This youtube video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4UpwoDmOb4
At time 4:36 it shows one of those four pawls on the axle in red in first gear.
At time 7:13 it shows two pawls in red in 3rd gear, one of which is the same as in gear 1.
I think you said those gears, plus 8 and 10 are the gears not behaving properly.
Perhaps that red pawl is not engaging for some reason?
That is my best guess.
Your description of rotating the wheel is what gave me this idea, perhaps gravity is helping that pawl engage when the wheel is rotated just right? But rotate the wheel again, the pawl is not getting help from gravity?
But of course the bad news is that this is internal, so some significant labor time could be involved, even if the only fault is a pawl or pawl spring.
There is the tiny chance that some grit is stuck somewhere that causes that pawl to hang up, in which case maybe trying to ride some in all gears with lots of shifting through all the gears, with only cleaning oil inside could cause some grit break loose and get out of there? When was the last oil change?
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It feels like this could be a useful clue.
Beagley
It could be! It does seem odd behaviour, though I have no practical suggestions.
Good luck
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I did not look at your video, but I might have an idea what the problem is.
THis link that Ph previously posted has a graphic:
https://www.rohloff.de/de/erleben/technik-im-detail/explosion
Part number 41 is a pawl that is attached to the axle, there are four of them.
This youtube video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4UpwoDmOb4
At time 4:36 it shows one of those four pawls on the axle in red in first gear.
At time 7:13 it shows two pawls in red in 3rd gear, one of which is the same as in gear 1.
I think you said those gears, plus 8 and 10 are the gears not behaving properly.
Perhaps that red pawl is not engaging for some reason?
That is my best guess.
Your description of rotating the wheel is what gave me this idea, perhaps gravity is helping that pawl engage when the wheel is rotated just right? But rotate the wheel again, the pawl is not getting help from gravity?
But of course the bad news is that this is internal, so some significant labor time could be involved, even if the only fault is a pawl or pawl spring.
Thanks mickeg. That exploded diagram and the video helped me appreciate that (i) the axle ring is ganged to the axle and (ii) there are moving components attached directly to that axle, namely the pawls. Your hypothesis (one of the pawls not engaging) makes complete sense although it doesn't explain why the problem became markedly worse after replacing the inner gear cable. Maybe I just disturbed something.
There is the tiny chance that some grit is stuck somewhere that causes that pawl to hang up, in which case maybe trying to ride some in all gears with lots of shifting through all the gears, with only cleaning oil inside could cause some grit break loose and get out of there? When was the last oil change?
Last oil change was only a few months ago. The problem had already appeared and the oil change didn't seem to help. However, I like your idea of "trying to ride some in all gears with lots of shifting through all the gears, with only cleaning oil inside" so will give that a go as a final straw to clutch at before contacting the shop in Bridgewater (thanks, PH, for the servicing suggestions).
Beagley
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Last oil change was only a few months ago. The problem had already appeared and the oil change didn't seem to help.
A few months ago would be mid-winter when the oil is more viscous is both less likely to flush any accumulated muck and also more reluctant to drain out. I support the suggestion to replace the current oil in the hub with flushing oil and clock up some miles with plenty of gear shifting. Then drain the oil before any bigger muck in suspension has time to settle. Depending on how that oil looks, a second flush might be beneficial.
At the moment I do my oil changes in spring and autumn as the miles need more than one change per year and I want to avoid doing this in cold weather for the reason noted above.
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Another thought: Is it possible to remove the shift mechanism and seal and squirt some GT85 or similar spray lubricant along the axle?
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Another thought: Is it possible to remove the shift mechanism and seal and squirt some GT85 or similar spray lubricant along the axle?
Do you think it might be possible to access the axle (including the part where the pawls are attached) without doing a full disassembly? I'll watch one of those scary disassembly videos and give that some thought before possibly having a go. I guess I should be ready to replace the hub cap paper gasket while I'm at it.
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These two videos from climbercraig66 on YouTube look very useful for anyone contemplating hub disassembly:
- Disassembly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lS6kj8g5On8
- Reassembly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-1iPbYra58
It's clear that a significant amount of disassembly is needed in order to get to the pawls mounted on the axle. Most of it looks straightforward but at 5:50 in the reassembly video climbercraig66 explains that the top sun gear requires a particular timing w.r.t. the planets it mates with and he glosses-over how to do this. Apparently, the planets have timing marks that must be aligned in order to properly mate with the last sun gear, but the marks can't be made out in the video. If I could find more directions to do that then I think I might have a go.
UPDATE: climbercraig66 provides clarification in posts #17 and #18 here: https://www.mtbr.com/threads/rohloff-strip-to-axle-and-rebuild-videos-english.659526/
UPDATE2: It seems climbercraig66 is Beave on this forum (Hi Beave, if you're still around!) and shared his videos on this forum back in 2010: http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=2829.0
BTW, I did an oil change this morning (with a 20 min ride and plenty of gear changing with the cleaning oil). No change.
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Apparently, the planets have timing marks that must be aligned...
Yes, small and hard to see unless you have good lighting.
You may wish to read/review the Rohloff disassembly account posted by Matthew Signorini, son of longtime Thorn Forum member, Pete...
https://matt.signorini.id.au/?p=198
...it mentions the matter of timing marks as well with some cogent insights that may save you time and frustration.
Best, Dan.
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You may wish to read/review the Rohloff disassembly account posted by Matthew Signorini, son of longtime Thorn Forum member, Pete...
https://matt.signorini.id.au/?p=198
...it mentions the matter of timing marks as well with some cogent insights that may save you time and frustration.
Thanks, Dan. A valuable read and has that useful tip on (at least trying to) avoid the need for aligning the timing marks during reassembly. Though I wouldn't bank on it not all falling apart if I tried it...
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I am an engineer (retired) and I have no desire to take mine apart if someone nearby can fix it. Maybe if I was a Mechanical Engineer with the right experience? But that is not my specialty.
If you really want to try it, good luck. I rebuilt the gearbox in my 1968 Triumph T100R a couple times over the 12 years I drove it, but that was a four speed that was a lot simpler. I am not even tempted to try rebuilding my Rohloff.
I watched your videos on disassembly and reassembly, but they did not cover what is going on inside the axle shifting mechanism and how those pawls work. They left that assembled.
This might help.
https://www.rohloff.de/en/experience/technology-in-detail/gear-steps-1-14
The 59 second video (first video) shows how the shifter works by rotating the inner rod with flats to control the four pawls on the axle and the two pins that move different parts in and out.
But that still does not tell you how to disassemble or re-assemble the axle and shifting pawls. Without knowing how to do that, good luck. And even if a pawl was too worn to continue to function properly, you might not be able to recognize that.
And, if it is an obvious fault, can you buy the correct replacement part? Will someone sell it to you? That might be the deal killer right there.
I still think it is one of those pawls that is the problem. But I could certainly be wrong on that too. There is no certainty that my diagnosis is correct.
The videos did not say what gear it was in when they started to disassemble it. I am guessing you should start in gear 11. I suspect other gears could have
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Ahhh, one more video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHiBcXukmOM
At about 2:34 he starts describing (in German) the shifting mechanism.
And at about 4:29 he turns the shifter with a wrench and ... you have to watch it.
I started laughing as the parts went flying.
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I think you've explored the easy possible fixes and it's time to pass the wheel to the experts (SJS Cycles) who should not only fix that problem but also replace any other parts that are getting worn. You'll then have a hub that should be good for many more years of happy pedalling.
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I had a problem with my 2007 Rolhoff hub back in 2016 where some gears were only engaging in one direction & the hub would slip in neutral instead. I phoned SJS about this problem and after a grilling about my service history they said I could send them the wheel & that they would send the hub innards to Germany for investigation. I was worried this might become an expensive bill, so was very pleasantly surprised when less than 2 weeks later my wheel arrived back with a note from Rohloff apologising that I had had a problem, which had been fixed by re-shimming the mechanism.
Ph.
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If you go down the disassembly route please document it, I'm as curious as anyone! I think other than satisfying the curiosity, there's only a slim chance you'll cure it, the likelihood to me seems to be a broken part and Rohloff don't supply. If it were mine I might be tempted to pull the innards out, just to see if something was obviously broke, dislodged or jammed, that's a simple step, I've done it once when the hub had been submerged, but that's as far as I'm ever likely to go. If that's done, the gasket should be replaced, but as it's likely to still need sending away, I wouldn't bother.
Good luck
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I think you've explored the easy possible fixes and it's time to pass the wheel to the experts (SJS Cycles) who should not only fix that problem but also replace any other parts that are getting worn. You'll then have a hub that should be good for many more years of happy pedalling.
Yeah, having slept on it I've decided not to chance it. What helped make my mind up was reading some of the comments under that Matthew Signorini post that Dan shared; some folk had got themselves into a right pickle.
I spoke to SJS yesterday and they have offered to take a look. Hopefully they can get it sorted while I'm away on a six week tour (of Germany, coincidentally) on my other Rohloff equipped bike. If all goes to plan I'll reply again at the end of June to let you know how it went.
Cheers,
Beag
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I spoke to SJS yesterday and they have offered to take a look. Hopefully they can get it sorted while I'm away on a six week tour (of Germany, coincidentally) on my other Rohloff equipped bike. If all goes to plan I'll reply again at the end of June to let you know how it went.
After an initial inspection SJS corresponded with Rohloff who suggested to replace the hub internals with a new set. Rohloff covered the cost of this since I am the original purchaser and the hub was registered with them. Frankly, I'm staggered. So effectively I now have a new hub :)
While doing the work SJS replaced the non drive side bearing (and seal) as well as the bearing seat on that side. There was a build up of grime within the seal and the bearing was slightly rough, so they decided it was sensible to replace that while they were in there. I was charged for this. I'm very happy they took the initiative.
Interestingly, the old internal will go back to Rohloff and the parts will be stripped and reconditioned. Rohloff offer re-con hub internals for hubs over 10 years old in Germany; they may well roll this service out worldwide in the future.
Beag
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After an initial inspection SJS corresponded with Rohloff who suggested to replace the hub internals with a new set. Rohloff covered the cost of this since I am the original purchaser and the hub was registered with them. Frankly, I'm staggered. So effectively I now have a new hub :)...
Mine is nine years old, almost broken in now.
Thanks for the update.
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Excellent response from both Rohloff and SJS - the hippy in me also likes the idea of Rohloff recycling the old parts.
Many thanks for the update.
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Frankly, I'm staggered. So effectively I now have a new hub :)
What a fantastic outcome, I'm staggered as well, that's beyond a reasonable expectation. I wonder if some part of that is due to SJS being the supplier and dealing with it? I've read of other issues not being dealt with so favourably, not badly, just not as good.
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Frankly, I'm staggered. So effectively I now have a new hub :)
What a fantastic outcome, I'm staggered as well, that's beyond a reasonable expectation. I wonder if some part of that is due to SJS being the supplier and dealing with it? I've read of other issues not being dealt with so favourably, not badly, just not as good.
I am sure that Rohloff is working hard to make sure that SJS continues to be happy with Rohloff, and SJS is doing well to take care of someone that might want to buy another bike someday.
I have had some great luck with some manufacturers and some terribly bad luck with others.