Swithering over Audax and Club Tour

[Swislon]

My bars and brake levers are the same as yours. Even with bar end shifters I don't bang my knees either in the saddle or standing on the pedals. I also don't have rattly levers.
I have moved the bars upwards and also back down again. I use 9 speed bar end shifters and love the friction mode.

I have always found the fork planted on all roads (a bit too planted actually as I find the the bike a little sluggish). I use 32mm Grand Bois Tyres at about 80 psi. We have some awful roads round here and a long fast downhill that is really rough. The bike instills plenty of confidence and I can quite easily take both hands off the bars.

I am coming to this bike from a lighter steel audax bike which is much more lively. Coming from a LHT would probably give my senses a different feeling.

[leftpoole]

john your an awful man 

Anto
I just read it and I find it very interesting that someone can moan about something so much. After all he chose the components!
John

[Far-Oeuf]

Anto
I just read it and I find it very interesting that someone can moan about something so much. After all he chose the components!
John

well, I myself am mystified at the way the components were put together (you can't choose all the components, that would be a very expensive bike!).   If the bars are in the correct-ish position, the brake levers and hoods are unusable.   I removed the bar-tape, and I find that the brake cable is fully taped to the bar, as is the brake lever.   I had spec'd gel inserts on the bar tops, as I don't use gloves, and I find that they're also fully taped in with electrical tape (destroyed if the levers are to be moved, a waste of £6 inserts).

what I was quite clear about was that these were my first impressions.  So much is made of Thorn's expertise in measuring, and bikes arriving in a 'fits like a glove' state.   Mine didn't arrive like that, quite far from it.   I find that I have to remove the bar-tape, throw away paid for inserts, remove a whole bunch of tape, and then put on new bar tape.   Not what I was expecting, regardless of how easy it is to do.   It's Thorn themselves that make such a big deal about their own expertise, and if you create such high expectations it's inveitable that sometimes you fail.

the bike was only ridable with care, it isn't a case that I could just go ride and stop complaining.

[Far-Oeuf]

@Swislon, thanks.

I've been around to the Bike Station (second hand bike parts) and picked up some shallow bars and an oversize stem.   I figured that as I was going to have to remove the bar tape to reposition the levers, I might as well change the bars now.   Changing the bars meant an oversize stem too.    Obviously much safer to have bars and brake levers in the right position, and much, much better riding.

Seat post has gone up about 25mm, bars have come down probably about 10mm.   next job is to try and stop the lever rattle.

progress at the front end:

[jags]

good stuff once you get sorted you will enjoy your bike.
its just a pity sjs made a complete balls of putting it together.

jags.

[honesty]

I much prefer shallow drop over anatomic drop bars, both to look at and to ride with. Also my preference is a angled stem with less spacers on the head tube than a flat stem with lots of spacers. Aesthetically I think it looks better. Plus an angled stem is a nice place for a garmin to sit and look at!

[rualexander]

well, I myself am mystified at the way the components were put together (you can't choose all the components, that would be a very expensive bike!).   If the bars are in the correct-ish position, the brake levers and hoods are unusable.   I removed the bar-tape, and I find that the brake cable is fully taped to the bar, as is the brake lever.   I had spec'd gel inserts on the bar tops, as I don't use gloves, and I find that they're also fully taped in with electrical tape (destroyed if the levers are to be moved, a waste of £6 inserts).

what I was quite clear about was that these were my first impressions.  So much is made of Thorn's expertise in measuring, and bikes arriving in a 'fits like a glove' state.   Mine didn't arrive like that, quite far from it.   I find that I have to remove the bar-tape, throw away paid for inserts, remove a whole bunch of tape, and then put on new bar tape.   Not what I was expecting, regardless of how easy it is to do.   It's Thorn themselves that make such a big deal about their own expertise, and if you create such high expectations it's inveitable that sometimes you fail.

the bike was only ridable with care, it isn't a case that I could just go ride and stop complaining.

From the photo in your blog, the bars and brake levers look correctly set up, (not the bars I would choose though).
Using electrical tape to secure the cables and gel pads under the bar tape is standard practice, not sure what you mean when you say they are destroyed when removed?
Rattling levers sounds a bit irritating, I have these levers on my Sherpa and they don't rattle, maybe you got some duds or maybe they will settle down with use.
The only real grounds for complaint I can see is if the fork has indeed been cut down pre delivery, and also the paint chip.
If you are happy to live with the paint chip, why not return the forks and swap them for the standard Club Tour fork and use the money you save in doing so to address the other component choice issues.

[Far-Oeuf]

I usually put gel inserts under the bar tape, but I've never taped them to the bars first.   to be honest, it never occured to me, as the bar-tape holds them in place just fine.   it wasn't possible to remove the electrical tape without destroying the inserts, unfortunately they were stuck fast.

Anytime I set off, from the lights for example, my knee would bang the bar end.   Maybe I have long thighs or huge knees, I dunno, but I was measured at the Thorn shop.  Rotating the bars to avoid this, meant the hoods were pointing to the sky.   Anyway, sorted now with different bars and stem.

cheers

[horizon]

Far-ouef: may I ask how tall you are, inside leg and size of bike? Getting the Brooks back far enough is a common problem - you may want a layback seat post.

I sympathised with your feelings on first seeing the bike but it looks like you're working through them fast. 

[triaesthete]

To stop the lever rattle try increasing the resting cable tension by screwing both of the front v brake spring adjuster screws in a little. On the BB7 at the rear try pulling a mm or two of cable through the pinch bolt. Remember both of these brakes were originally designed for mtb levers with integral cable adjusters so setting them up to taste on levers without such requires a little more finesse. They will also need bedding in of friction components and cables and feel will improve. (A Deore V brake will never wear out).

Dura Ace shifting is "positive". You can still buy 9speed levers with friction setting and vary the friction. Buttery smooth  I have some but prefer to use the indexing most of the time.  10 speed is too finnicky to friction shift in general use, hence friction deletion.

As for the fork, have you tried experimenting with your front tyre pressure as there may be some sort of harmonic relationship. I'd start at about 65 psi.

Those original bars look ergonomically awful  for anyone but a gorilla with small hands. But remember you have more knee room on the LHT because it is too long and you've gotten used to it 

I have to ask though, why on earth didn't you buy a frame and fork and build it up? I'm almost agreeing with John      It always struck me that the a la carte option was the expensive choice for those that want someone else to sweat the technical ingredients.

I hope you get where you want to be in the end.
Ian

[Far-Oeuf]

@horizon, about 5 11, and it's the 58S frame.  increasing the seat height feels like it's ironed the problem out.

@triasthete, the brake cables themselves are fine, it's the little QR stopper thing that rattles, and only when I apply the brakes (both sides).   When at rest the QR stopper is in contact with the hood, so silent.  It is wierd, as the other set of the same levers I have on the LHT are fine.  I was thinking of some clear glue or trying to wedge a tiny piece of plastic into there.

I'll try with the tyre pressure, good suggestion; they came at 75PSI.   Yes, I've read that friction shifting on 10-speed is finnicky.   At the moment indexed shifting works, and doesn't stop me riding, so I'm just going to live with it.   I really was surprised how 'positive' the shifting feels though.

Why not a frame only?  Well, in retrospect I should have.   If the opinion (eg John's) is 'stop talking about it and get out and ride it', well I disagree.   Logically that implies that people shouldn't expect a Thorn bike to fit, out of the box.   And that then implies that Thorn's whole measuring requirement is just a rouse to make people feel like they're getting something more than just an off-the-peg bike.  I don't believe this is what Thorn is about, I still believe they are about getting you a great fit, on top of a great bike.

The Thorn 'product' (so far as complete bikes is concerned) is bike + measurement = fitted bike.   I've been riding a too-large bike for years, finally investing in a bike that really fits is a large part of why I went for the complete bike.   It cost me £150 in travel and two days, to visit Bridgwater to be measured.   And for what?   It was obvious the frame size would be a 58S, but bar height, saddle position, etc, etc.   Visiting them was part curiousity, but part getting exactly the right measurements instead of messing it up myself.

If I'd been able to order a 58S off-the-peg I would have expected to have to shuffle things around until I felt 'right'.  But Thorn sell fitted bikes, and they sell that expectation too; and you can't order without supplying the measurements.   Something went wrong with the setup on my bike, which meant that physically things were in the wrong place, and it felt awful.   Saying, 'just ride it anyway,' doesn't help because anyone else thinking of buying a fitted bike could take the impression that the resulting bike might or might not fit you.   Something went wrong with my particular bike build, and I think it's right to be annoyed about it as that is part of what I've paid for.   Though I don't think it's typical of the Thorn service, if it was I wouldn't be annoyed about it.

I wrapped the replacement bars in fresh bar tape last night, so me and the bike bonded a little  

cheers,

[leftpoole]

well, I myself am mystified at the way the components were put together (you can't choose all the components, that would be a very expensive bike!).   If the bars are in the correct-ish position, the brake levers and hoods are unusable.   I removed the bar-tape, and I find that the brake cable is fully taped to the bar, as is the brake lever.   I had spec'd gel inserts on the bar tops, as I don't use gloves, and I find that they're also fully taped in with electrical tape (destroyed if the levers are to be moved, a waste of £6 inserts).

what I was quite clear about was that these were my first impressions.  So much is made of Thorn's expertise in measuring, and bikes arriving in a 'fits like a glove' state.   Mine didn't arrive like that, quite far from it.   I find that I have to remove the bar-tape, throw away paid for inserts, remove a whole bunch of tape, and then put on new bar tape.   Not what I was expecting, regardless of how easy it is to do.   It's Thorn themselves that make such a big deal about their own expertise, and if you create such high expectations it's inveitable that sometimes you fail.

the bike was only ridable with care, it isn't a case that I could just go ride and stop complaining.

Hello,
I build my own bikes from frameset up.
I have only ever once purchased a complete bike built to 'my' detailed measurement and requested components. It was a Mk 3 Audax. It arrived in the big box. I opened the box, turned the bars, fitted my own pedals and went for a day ride! No messing, no adjustments, nothing!
You should have complained, discussed or whatever with St John St Cycles, as after all they built it and do not want an unhappy customer. I feel that the Blog you have written is not really a true description but a long rant, moan, whinge or somesuch. I think that the bike you have will be a great bike. I would, if I were you, rewrite the Blog now that you have calmed down?
John

[leftpoole]

I usually put gel inserts under the bar tape, but I've never taped them to the bars first.   to be honest, it never occured to me, as the bar-tape holds them in place just fine.   it wasn't possible to remove the electrical tape without destroying the inserts, unfortunately they were stuck fast.

Anytime I set off, from the lights for example, my knee would bang the bar end.   Maybe I have long thighs or huge knees, I dunno, but I was measured at the Thorn shop.  Rotating the bars to avoid this, meant the hoods were pointing to the sky.   Anyway, sorted now with different bars and stem.

cheers

Hello again,
You could have slit the tape at the edge of the Gel and removed without any damage.
I re state-you chose the bars, stem everything!
John

[leftpoole]

Why not a frame only?  Well, in retrospect I should have.   If the opinion (eg John's) is 'stop talking about it and get out and ride it', well I disagree.   Logically that implies that people shouldn't expect a Thorn bike to fit, out of the box.


Hello!!!
I implied that you should stop moaning and ride the bike. If the bike has incorrect bars, stem, tape, Gel etc it is your fault not reporting it. St John St Cycles would have arranged a change.
I repeat, stop complaining. If you know anything about bikes and fitting then you should have told the seller what you wanted. The seller gave you what you showed them you wanted by how you were measured and by how you explained the way rode.
The steerer cut off is for the reason that the seller has had people cut them off too short and then 'complain' (oops!) that the steerer was too short. I suggest yet again that you stop messing about and get on to the seller. I should imagine the seller would welcome the bike back. They could then sell it to someone who actually wants it. Might you have purchased the bike and now do not really want it? Sounds like it from what I am reading.
John

[leftpoole]

Hello
By the way-I have brake levers on my Club Tour which 'rattle'. It is irritating but it is Shimano you should complain to. I am certain 'they would welcome' your complaint?
John