Author Topic: Where to start?  (Read 8183 times)

honesty

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 306
Re: Where to start?
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2014, 10:24:01 PM »
Couple of errors in what you have said there.

With a 26 tooth chainring and a 32 tooth rear sprocket your wheels are turning slower than you pedal.

And the 'gear inches' measure is not the distance that you travel for each full turn of the pedals, that is 'gear development'.
Gear inches is the size of the diameter of an imaginary wheel that would give the same gearing  with a 1:1 chainring :sprocket ratio, or as it is more often described as the diameter of a direct drive penny farthing wheel that produces the same equivalent gear.

Ah yep! I blame the fact I was trying to work at the same time for that basic error, I even got it right the first time as well.

Good info on gear inches though, teach me to assume and not research it!
« Last Edit: August 07, 2014, 10:30:44 PM by honesty »

triaesthete

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 484
Re: Where to start?
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2014, 12:47:27 AM »

Ah, the penny farthing equivalence rating  :P  How could anybody not grasp the gear-inch  and love it immediately  :o 

Theoretically as absurd as even slightly overweight men in lycra with insufficiently low gearing.

BUT! The good thing with gear inches though  is that  the numbers are spaced just right to make a common sense scale if you ignore the derivation and the units. 100  is plenty big and 19  gets you up almost anything.

Funnily enough that's exactly the range Herr Rohloff provides  8)

Get a Rohloff Austerby (maybe in a Raven Tour) and specify bottom gear of 19" or less. Hills will no longer be your enemy, merely bits of road to be savoured at lower speed, and you will be able to engage this low gear without fuss, drama or breaking the chain.

Happy climbing
Ian

Andre Jute

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4106
Re: Where to start?
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2014, 02:13:55 AM »
Ah, the penny farthing equivalence rating  :P  How could anybody not grasp the gear-inch  and love it immediately  :o 

Theoretically as absurd as even slightly overweight men in lycra with insufficiently low gearing.

No, never! At school I rode in a parade on the penny-farthing from the museum, dressed in a loud check suit also from the museum. I mounted the pennyfarthing by having my gang hoist me up to the crossbar on the rugby goalposts and then wheeling the bike in under me.

Later I ordered a suit exactly like that cut for me by John Stephen of Carnaby Street. It was so loud that at the polo Prince Philip tried to place a bet with me. I pocketed his money before I told him I was a guest of his mother-in-law, so he'd better mind his manners. (If you want to know what happened to my knighthood, that's probably the moment it went walkabye.) I wish I still had that suit. It would be ideal for that jaunt in vintage clothes Brooks organizes every year.

I shall never, ever, desert the penny-farthing standard of inter-transmission comparison. I have fond memories of it: the first bicycle I loved, holding handlebars with it in light rain under dripping oak trees, the warmth of her love for me cheering the day of everyone who caught sight of us. Yes.

triaesthete

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 484
Re: Where to start?
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2014, 08:43:15 AM »

 
 How much is that ordinary worth in penny farthing equivalence  my friend, we need a handy conversion chart because my hovercraft is full of eels.

What a paean Andre  ;D 

Made my morning.

Happy day ahead!

Ian

Austerby

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8
Re: Where to start?
« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2014, 08:00:42 PM »
Just wanted to come back and say thanks, these comments have been really instructive (well, most of them :))

I'm down in the west country a few times a year so will have to build in some time on my next trip to visit Thorn in person.

Far-Oeuf

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 134
Re: Where to start?
« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2014, 10:31:50 PM »
Hi,

Having just been at Thorn (and subsequently bought a CT), and been through the 'choice' process, I think you might want to bear a couple of things in mind before a visit.  Andre Jute is right, you need to first consider what you want to do with the bike.  Is it something specific, or an all-round 'only one' bike?   The guys at Thorn will simply give you the bike most suitable for the purpose that you tell them.   If you don't know what that will be, then a visit might not help.   But you will get to look at/ride some really shiny bikes  :)   Having said that, initiating an email conversation with one of their sales guys helped me quite a bit; before the visit.

btw, I have a Rohloff'd bike and conventionally geared bikes, and the difference is not life changing.   They are just, well, same but different; except for the price!   I did about 15k dirty kms on a conventionally geared bike before I had to replace the gearing, for about £80 (chainrings, chain, cassette, rear-mech).   The Rohloff is interesting, but doesn't always stack up financially.   £80 every 15,000 km is a pretty ok rate, to me.

cheers,

Austerby

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8
Re: Where to start?
« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2014, 01:34:54 PM »
Good points: I think I'm pretty clear on what I want it for:

1. day rides local to home - 40milers - for exercise. I'll be going out of SE London towards Kent and there are some big, long hills around

2. In summer 2016 I'm planning a London-Mallorca cycle ride, well, to Barcelona to catch the ferry to Palma. This will be light touring, staying at B&Bs rather than carrying camping gear etc. Some of this will be on roads, but I'd like to follow canal paths / riverside paths, for part of it so some rougher surfaces.

3. I'll then keep the bike at my property in Mallorca to be used for day rides around NE Mallorca - unlikely to attempt to follow the pro-teams training routes in the mountains but more around the agricultural areas.

4. The occasional commute to work, though I'll keep my Giant hybrid for that, mostly.

I don't see the need for a Rohloff hub, derailleurs are fine as far as I can see and I'm not going anywhere much further than 10 miles from the nearest bike shop I expect.

I am looking around at other manufacturers but happy to spend £1500 or so for the right bike. I'm also thinking about going on a build your own bike course so I can build something like a Velo Orange Pass Hunter or a Surly Pacer or even just find an old frame I can use.

Mart

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 22
Re: Where to start?
« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2014, 08:40:39 PM »
Hi Austerby

Other than the fact I'm a couple of years older it sounds like you have the same set of criteria and are going through the same thought processes which I went through 6 months ago.

I went for a Raven in the end which I've had for about 3 months. 2-3 rides per week, 10-30 miles each time and I have to say it's brilliant. Comfort was important to me as I have a dodgy back, rather than out and out speed. I plan to keep the bike until I fall off my perch (or the saddle) so as long as I stick to that plan the high initial cost won't be so bad.

Would strongly advise test rides at Thorn as others have said. I initially was going to go for the Mercury but, great bike as it undoubtably is, it wasn't right for me.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Martin

Bill C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 347
Re: Where to start?
« Reply #23 on: August 26, 2014, 09:18:59 PM »
Oh, I'm 48, not fit, overweight, like beer and cake a bit too much. I'm not planning on wearing a lycra cycling suit, ever. Oh, and I really struggle to get up much more than a modest gradient - hills are my enemy on a bike

Lol had to laugh when i read that and then read your thinking of buying a Velo Orange pass hunter

freshtripe says The term ‘pass hunter’ refers to the sport of riding over mountain passes, popular in
France and Japan - rules are explained on this page http://velo-orange.blogspot.co.uk/2006/03/pass-hunting_20.html

i think your right to buy a frame and build it up yourself, youtube and forums are your friend if you do
one bit of advice if you don't already have a workstand get a good one as it makes everything a doddle
p.s
i'd look at the sherpa it really aint that heavy, and will last a lifetime

Austerby

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8
Re: Where to start?
« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2014, 11:24:23 PM »
Lol had to laugh when i read that and then read your thinking of buying a Velo Orange pass hunter

Well, my thinking is that it would be a good bike for hills  ;D I may need all the help I can get.

Far-Oeuf

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 134
Re: Where to start?
« Reply #25 on: August 27, 2014, 04:39:52 PM »
Well, my thinking is that it would be a good bike for hills  ;D I may need all the help I can get.


just a suggestion.   if you build up a frameset with new parts, it is likely to cost a fair bit more than just buying the complete bike.   you can do it cheaper, but you tend to need to have some experience and patience when ordering parts.   if you were to build a Pacer I expect you're thinking is that you'd have a lighter bike to take up the hills?   I think what you'd have is two very similar road bikes; including the Thorn you're possibly going to buy.

An alternative is to get your primary bike (let's say a Club Tour), and then over time buy parts to turn it into a lighter-weight road bike (if that's what your intention is with the second bike).  So you'd learn about gearing (inches/Ordinary's/etc) and with your new theoretical knowledge you'd purchase some new parts (perhaps going lighter weight) and fit them to your primary bike.  The parts you take of that bike are known-good parts, and you put them on the spares shelf.   And because you're replacing like for like, you can see how things should look before you pull it apart.  Perhaps you learn wheel building, and you build yourself a set of wheels for fast-road riding.   Your old wheels are always there should you need to tweak your self-built wheels off the bike.

This way, you're less likely to have an unusable 'project bike' festering in the corner.   You're also able to see and measure what's already there, before you buy/upgrade.  A collection of spares is always handy.   And the money you save on a new frameset (£350-ish for a Pacer?) can be put into good quality tools instead.

If the Thorn bike is bought as a 'keeper', and it's as good as you expect, then being able to reconfigure it into a full-tourer/shopper/fast-road/audax/sportive/etc bike will only add to the enjoyment.   Obviously, if you just want another bike then ignore all of this  :-)

btw, I've cycled Edinburgh/Barcelona/Edinburgh a couple of times and it's a great ride.

Austerby

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8
Re: Where to start?
« Reply #26 on: August 28, 2014, 12:24:24 PM »
It's not so much lightness that I'm after (I need to lose quite a few lbs personally before I begin to worry about a few ounces here or there between components) as efficiency and, to be honest, the look of a nice bicycle.

I'm not going to be a fast rider (I like to enjoy my surroundings rather than trying to beat the clock) and I'm not going to clock up huge mileages, nor am I likely to be taking the bike to far away places.

My current bike is a very handy commuter but it doesn't inspire me to use it for other that utility purposes. I rather fancy something fancier for different types of riding, so I don't want to replicate or replace.

The Thorn Audax and GT were not bikes I'd really looked at until prompted by suggestions here. They certainly appeal and I've moved on from looking at specialised heavy-duty touring bikes to the sports touring type but this could yet change.

I realised that I don't actually know that much about bicycles and am intending to do some courses at the London Bike Kitchen, or similar, over the winter in maintenance and they also do a "Build Your Own Bike" course.

Ideally, I'd like to have something by, say, Spring 2015, so I have a year to get it run in before taking it down to Mallorca, so I'm not in any particular hurry to make a decision just yet.

Far-Ouef: I'm interested in your Edinburgh/Barcelona/Edinburgh ride - my plans are not in that league, but interesting to hear which route you took through France - I'm looking at either Calais, Lyon, Perpignan; or Caen, Chartres, Orleans, Poitiers, Bordeaux, Canal du Midi, Perpignan; or St Malo, Nantes, La Rochelle, Bordeaux, Perpignan, Barcelona.

Far-Oeuf

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 134
Re: Where to start?
« Reply #27 on: August 28, 2014, 04:52:56 PM »
hey,

Just some hi-lights/low-lights, to consider:

you can skirt down the west side of Paris, fairly close, on reasonable roads for cycling by going through Dreux.

Orleans is a favourite place of mine, so I tend to cycle there when I'm near.   The municipal campsite at Olivet (5km south of Orleans, an easy cycle) is justifiably full in summer (it is a fantastic site) so booking is essential.  The campsite in Orleans, by the river, is acceptable but nowhere near as good.  Hotel de l'Abeille in the centre of Orleans is a very nice, and not so expensive, hotel in an old town house, and if you turn up by bicycle they'll give you a cool drink while checking in; very bicycle friendly.

The centre route, I've found, is less touristy, which I prefer.  That means eating (properly) local, during fixed hours (without tourists they serve the locals and then close up) in bars and truck-stops (not like our truck-stops!).   I've had the best, most interesting food this way.

Albi is a cultural centre (Cathars), so there's lots of interesting things around there.   Just south is the road from Mazamet to Carcassonne, which is really scenic and well worth the initial hill.

Bordeaux is quite far out of the way, though chosen because it's flatter.   I don't think that justifies going that way, is it's not a particularly nice route (heavy traffic too).   Canal du Midi is, in my experience and opinion, quite boring; you just sit on a straight canal for day after day without being able to see over the bankings.   They have also taken out the trees (or are about to) because of disease, I think.   Lyon I liked a lot, and it was another very bike friendly city.

The coastal route to Barcelona is one I'd avoid, having done it once.  After a few weeks in France, pleasantly meandering and being welcomed as a cyclist, the Costa Brava is not a great place to be (tourists, traffic, HGVs).   Although it means a few hills (by this time that won't be a problem) the route through Foix, Puigcerdá and to Ripoll is much, much nicer.   There's also a railway on that route, should you prefer to let the train take the strain.   You'll also get a much nicer entry cycling into Barcelona this way, as Barcelona hasn't been able to spill westwards far as it has northwards.

Regional trains in France and Spain are very easy with a bike, so keep that in mind.   I've cycled all over France and I really prefer the hilly areas (Massif Central, Ardèche, etc).   But to get to Barcelona I preferred most the central route along the lines of : Calais, Dreux, Orleans, Montluçon, Figeac, Albi, Carcassonne, Foix, Puigcerdá, Ripoll, Vic, Barcelona.   If you really didn't want to cycle up the Pyrenees to Puigcerdá, I'd recommend the train up from Foix rather then the Perpignan route.   

I don't plan a route in advance, I just pick up a map showing D-roads (our B-roads) and make it up each morning over a coffee/croissant.   It's also worth, in advance, working out what sort of food keeps you going (protein/chicken-based dinner means my legs are brand new in the morning for example), as eating the right things makes a big difference.   That's more trial and error though, but you've plenty of time to try out a few days on the bike.

I travelled up and down to Barcelona by motorbike for years (I freelanced down there), but it was not until I cycled that I really felt immersed in France and realised I'd missed out on a lot of the culture.   Traversing the country (rather than a 2 week holiday) really puts you in the right mental frame of mind I think, and the French give you an extra bit of kudos for it too  :)

sorry to deviate off your bike-choosing thread.

Andre Jute

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4106
Re: Where to start?
« Reply #28 on: August 28, 2014, 05:38:19 PM »
Never mind "deviating", that's the meat and drink that people come to a touring forum for. Fascinating and authoritative.

Audax hopeful

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 70
Re: Where to start?
« Reply #29 on: August 28, 2014, 07:29:38 PM »
hey,

Just some hi-lights/low-lights, to consider:

you can skirt down the west side of Paris, fairly close, on reasonable roads for cycling by going through Dreux.

Orleans is a favourite place of mine, so I tend to cycle there when I'm near.   The municipal campsite at Olivet (5km south of Orleans, an easy cycle) is justifiably full in summer (it is a fantastic site) so booking is essential.  The campsite in Orleans, by the river, is acceptable but nowhere near as good.  Hotel de l'Abeille in the centre of Orleans is a very nice, and not so expensive, hotel in an old town house, and if you turn up by bicycle they'll give you a cool drink while checking in; very bicycle friendly.

The centre route, I've found, is less touristy, which I prefer.  That means eating (properly) local, during fixed hours (without tourists they serve the locals and then close up) in bars and truck-stops (not like our truck-stops!).   I've had the best, most interesting food this way.

Albi is a cultural centre (Cathars), so there's lots of interesting things around there.   Just south is the road from Mazamet to Carcassonne, which is really scenic and well worth the initial hill.

Bordeaux is quite far out of the way, though chosen because it's flatter.   I don't think that justifies going that way, is it's not a particularly nice route (heavy traffic too).   Canal du Midi is, in my experience and opinion, quite boring; you just sit on a straight canal for day after day without being able to see over the bankings.   They have also taken out the trees (or are about to) because of disease, I think.   Lyon I liked a lot, and it was another very bike friendly city.

The coastal route to Barcelona is one I'd avoid, having done it once.  After a few weeks in France, pleasantly meandering and being welcomed as a cyclist, the Costa Brava is not a great place to be (tourists, traffic, HGVs).   Although it means a few hills (by this time that won't be a problem) the route through Foix, Puigcerdá and to Ripoll is much, much nicer.   There's also a railway on that route, should you prefer to let the train take the strain.   You'll also get a much nicer entry cycling into Barcelona this way, as Barcelona hasn't been able to spill westwards far as it has northwards.

Regional trains in France and Spain are very easy with a bike, so keep that in mind.   I've cycled all over France and I really prefer the hilly areas (Massif Central, Ardèche, etc).   But to get to Barcelona I preferred most the central route along the lines of : Calais, Dreux, Orleans, Montluçon, Figeac, Albi, Carcassonne, Foix, Puigcerdá, Ripoll, Vic, Barcelona.   If you really didn't want to cycle up the Pyrenees to Puigcerdá, I'd recommend the train up from Foix rather then the Perpignan route.   

I don't plan a route in advance, I just pick up a map showing D-roads (our B-roads) and make it up each morning over a coffee/croissant.   It's also worth, in advance, working out what sort of food keeps you going (protein/chicken-based dinner means my legs are brand new in the morning for example), as eating the right things makes a big difference.   That's more trial and error though, but you've plenty of time to try out a few days on the bike.

I travelled up and down to Barcelona by motorbike for years (I freelanced down there), but it was not until I cycled that I really felt immersed in France and realised I'd missed out on a lot of the culture.   Traversing the country (rather than a 2 week holiday) really puts you in the right mental frame of mind I think, and the French give you an extra bit of kudos for it too  :)

sorry to deviate off your bike-choosing thread.

This made me want to set off tomorrow!! (I would if I hadn't got someone to care for, and be the carer of!). I'm going to save this post for future reference... you never know what the future holds...