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[Matt2matt2002]

Hello folks,
Just back from my around Scotland tour and very nice it was too.
Many thanks for those who followed me here and on Facebook etc.

Some of you may know that on day 3 my front chain ring went smooth and I lost all grip from the chain.
( OK, not smooth but I sure didn't have any grip and enjoyed the scenery for 12 miles pushing the bike back to the hostel )

Anyways......
The nice man at the LBS in Lerwick, Shetland, fixed me up with a get me home replacement and it was good for 800 miles fully loaded. No name on the ring but at £15 for fixture and fitting, I am not complaining.
I notice, that the chain is not neatly seated on the ring cogs ( doesn't show any wear when I use a ruler to measure it) but since I have a nice new chain sitting here, I thought I'd treat myself to a whole new drive set.

I have seen the EBB and it is scored and pitted, so that's one item to buy.
Since I'm doing the front ring, I may as well do the rear, since I have no idea how old it is.

Anything else I should consider?

2 rings and a EBB. ( got the chain already)

Also, any thoughts on chain ring sizes?
Having just returned from a loaded tour, tent + 2 rear panniers, I am more interested in getting up,the hills rather than speeding on the flats.
I don't mind living with a bike I have to spin!

Riding a Raven, 8 year old Rohloff.

Matt

[Neil Jones]

Glad you enjoyed your Scotland Tour Matt, it sounded fantastic.

I think you've got your drivetrain bases covered, maybe you'd like to consider a Hebie Chainglider? I don't have one on my RST but some forum members swear by them. I have just replaced my EBB as that too had developed indentations that had come together creating a groove. I am now trying to be less fussy with my chain tension so that I can develop definite indentations in which the screws will sit. I've also bought a torque wrench so I can get the correct tightness on screws as they had worked loose a few times as I was a bit wary of going through it. I still seems to me a very agricultural way of holding the EBB in place but it seems to work pretty well.

Looking forward to hearing about any future tours you have planned.
Regards,
Neil.

[Andre Jute]

It's smart, considering what happened, to fit a complete new transmission. You should probably have done it before your tour, given that the components were of uncertain mileage, and you weren't expert enough to judge their remaining life. But then, considering how long components in a Rohloff transmission chain last, it could have been altogether a waste, too. Six of one, half a dozen of t'other. You had a lucky escape and learned a lesson much more valuable than the time lost, especially considering your dream of going further afield.

On my hills, I'm happy with 38 x 16 transmission, which for a long time was the lowest permissable standard, but I have a motor which fills in where previously I was down to the lowest gear, just about keeping my balance, though I never had to get off and push. You can also go to 38 x 17 within the new standard; that's stump-pullingly low.

Both 16 and 17 tooth sprockets will fit the Rohloff specific Chainglider, which very dramatically extends the life of your transmission components. Surly makes a 38T chainring in stainless steel that seems overkill if you use it inside a Chainglider but it fits the Chainglider better because it is not thick like good aluminium chainrings need to be; on the other hand, it will very likely be the last chainring you buy if you run it in a Chainglider, so choose your tooth-count wisely!

I don't favour Dan's 36T chain wheel choice, among other reasons because it now seem unlikely that Hebie will soon make a Chainglider to fit. But it also presumes a very, very high cadence to make any kind of reasonable speed on the flat, and few of us are hummingbirds.

There are some interesting transmission possibilities in the tables at http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLINGHebieChainglider.html
and if you tell me the size of your tyres (or the calculated or measured circumference) and your cadence, I can make a table specifically for you. However, if you want just a spot check, it is easy for you to adjust the numbers in the table by a constant based on your tires and cadence in relation to those specified at the top of the tables.

[David Simpson]

Matt --

I prefer spinning instead of pushing hard on the pedals, and I ride a lot of hills. I originally had 40x17 on my Nomad, because I figured that having a larger sprocket on the rear would increase its life. However, they don't make a Chainglider for a 40-tooth chainring, so I switched to 38x16, which has a very similar ratio. I use a Surly stainless chainring and a Chainglider. I can recommend both of them. After a winter of commuting in the rain (about 3000km), I took off the Chainglider in the spring to inspect the chain. The chain still looked new and slivery. I was very surprised at the like-new condition of the chain.

My only hestitation for recommending the Chainglider is that it is a bit fiddly to install. On my Nomad, I needed to cut away some of the Chainglider so that it wouldn't rub on the seat stay. Also, there is a bit of noise from the chain rubbing inside the Chainglider, but not much. It is less than the gear 7 Rohloff noise (which may not be saying much). After a year with my Chainglider, I don't even notice it anymore. And there is a bit of friction, but you don't notice it at all while riding. You can only feel it when you spin the pedals by hand.

Like Andre, my goal is a maintenance-free bike.  Having a Chainglider takes me one step closer to that goal.

- Dave

[Danneaux]

Hi All!

For those interested to see what my "hummingbird" cadence looks like, I took a little video, which you can see here: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B4oEGx6B0gzBRGNSd2RRMGJwY1U/edit?usp=docslist_api

I've been known to keep this up for 17 hours at a time, eating and drinking on the bike carefully enough to avoid toilet breaks.

A fast, light, smooth cadence works well for me, but I realize it doesn't suit everyone. I honed my souplesse style of smooth pedaling from years of riding on slick aluminum rollers with no fork stand.

That said,  except for the inability to use a Hebie Chainglider, I've been wholly satisfied with my 36 X 17 Rohloff combo when fully loaded on my present tour and never felt under geared with the resulting 80 gear-inch high. It sure was nice on steep hills and I have no trouble balancing at speeds as low as 2.5mph. As an old roadie, doing track stands was part of the game and this is easier than that for me.

Just goes to show the wide variation in riding styles and personal preferences.  Still, for me 36 X 17 was surely the correct choice on my Nomad Mk2 at home and on Andy's Raven Tour, which I adapted with a new Surly stainless chainring i brought for that purpose. The drivetrain is holding up well. I oil the Chain regularly and clean it with fresh oil,  paper toweling, and one of my sister's old mascara brushes once a week. Initially, there was a massive amount of chain stretch and i had to adjust that out.  Things have remained stable since.

If Hebie would produce a Chain glider to fit the revised, Rohloff - approved 36 X 17 ratios,  I'd be ecstatic. However, given the choice I'll take my preferred gearing over the protection. It would just be nice to have it all!

All the best,

Dan.

[Danneaux]

By the way,  I was traveling 28 kph at the time I took the video. Plenty fast enough for me on level ground when fully loaded.

And yes, my breathing cadence is rapid and fairly shallow as well, which seems to work well with my asthma.

Best,

Dan. (...who is currently waiting out a night of heavy thunderstorms and resultant flash - flooding in Baja,  Hungary)

[Andre Jute]

Dan. (...who is currently waiting out a night of heavy thunderstorms and resultant flash - flooding in Baja,  Hungary)

Where they hold the desert buggy races? Dan, I know California is stranger than fiction, but how could you mistake it for Hungary?

I love your movie. I can just see some stranger arrive here and wonder if we're a bunch of foot fetishists, all this talk of cadence.

[Danneaux]

Andre!

I just *knew* I took a wrong turn somewhere....

 

All the best,

Dan.

[mickeg]

Lengthy discussion of chainring and rear cog sizes here.
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4412.0

Thus, I am not going to repeat here what I have already said at the link above.

[Matt2matt2002]

Thanks Mick
Great help

[John Saxby]

Matt, a short note on chainrings & Chainglider:  My experience with my New Raven is limited -- just one short shakedown tour of about 5 days, and maybe 700 kms to date (since early May this year).  I have a 38 x 17 on my bike, using the Surly stainless chainring.  And, I've fixed a Chainglider as well -- you have my notes in your Inbox on the mounting drill.  (That's worked very well to keep the rain away -- not a hint of a shower in any of my rides since I mounted it!)

I've found this setup works very well for me so far:

    >   I've managed some steep hills (10%-plus) with a load of camping gear, and haven't had to use my lowest gear.

    >   Maybe, if I were facing very steep hills (say, 15%-plus) on a loaded bike, and long ones, I'd opt for a 36 x 17, following Dan's Nomadic practice in the Oregon back country.

    >   It's been really nice not to worry about cleaning the chain regularly.  No dust, no grit, no water.  We don't have the wet conditions in Eastern Ontario that Dave faces in a Vancouver winter, so his experience with the Chainglider is more relevant than mine.  In a month or so from now, however, I'll have completed several weeks' cycling in Denmark & Sweden, so I'll know more after that.  I would guess, though, that a Chainglider would be very helpful in Scottish weather (unless you ride only where & when Rual does!)  A Chainglider requires a 38T ring at the front, unless/until Hebie decides to make one for a 36T ring.

    >   Dave's observations about the Chainglider's noise & friction match my own.

Hope this is helpful,

John

[Matt2matt2002]

Thanks John.
I think I'll go for your combo.
May I ask why you went for the Surly ring and not the Thorn.

The one I stripped in Shetland was a Thorn as it happens. I wish I had photographed it before leaving it behind.

[geocycle]

I have, or should I say had, a similar set up to John although I went for the Surly 42 x 17 combo which I find OK (could never move my knees as fast as Dan).  Unfortunately, the chainglider which worked on the raven tour, didn't quite work on the raven sport tour.  I had it on for about 6 months but it didn't quite fit with the tighter frame clearances.  It began to rub the inside of the seat stay and I think compromised the chain a bit.  So reluctantly, I took it off and have reverted back to the thorn chainring.  I might attempt to modify the chainglider with a hacksaw and refit for winter.

[geocycle]

Thanks John.
I think I'll go for your combo.
May I ask why you went for the Surly ring and not the Thorn.

The one I stripped in Shetland was a Thorn as it happens. I wish I had photographed it before leaving it behind.

The Surly is thinner and fits inside the chainglider.  The thorn is a bit too thick to rotate smoothly.If you get the surly you'll need some spacing washers to go with the chainring bolts.  SJS advised me to get these as they help centre the chainring -they are not needed on the Thorn as it is recessed.

[julk]

I might attempt to modify the chainglider with a hacksaw and refit for winter.

Definitely worth doing.

I had the same problem with my expr, the chainglider was pushed out of line at the top rear and rubbing on the seatstay.
I surformed out the offending bits of plastic, enough to allow the chainglider to fit vertically, and covered the hole with black gaffer tape from both sides.
It works perfectly and the chain still looks like new…
julk.