how crucial are low-loaders to touring comfort/experience?

[tt2cycletours]

Hi All,

Any advice on the consequences of using a rear rack (modified) on the front fork to hold panniers at similar level to the rear rack?

Does this adversely effect steering/ride experience??  Or is it a fairly minor compromise; I appreciated the greater the load the greater the effect.

I expect to use the lowest mounting bosses on the fork and then fashion a bracket to bridge from fork crown to rack.

Any thoughts appreciated.

T

[Danneaux]

Hi T,

I'm on my phone with limited comms at the moment so I'll have to make this a bit briefer than usual.

I see no particular problem with raising the height of the front bags to match the rear. I've done similarly in the past and enjoyed the greater ground clearance in some circumstances and the front platform came in handy as well.

I would be more concerned with the effects of triangulating the fork. I used to used Blackburn 's front pannier rack that mounted to the dropouts and the fork crown and in my experience this resulted in a much harsher ride compared to racks that mounted mid-fork,  which allowed the fork to flex within its design limits.

With my last experience in mind,  if I were considering this, I think I would be much happier either:

A) Using a front low - riding rack and a second, separate platform rack that mounted between fork crown and brake bosses or fork crown and low rider bosses, or...

B) Going with something like Surly's Nice Rack (Front), which does everything you wish and mounts to the dropouts and lowrider bosses. I was underwhelmed with the lateral rigidity of mine and sold it on,  but the example Andy BG has on his derailleur Nomad has no problem in this regard, so I believe it might be worth a look.

Hope something in the above thoughts will help.

Best,

Dan.

[tt2cycletours]

Great thanks - posted a Surly Nice front back to supplier today because it was so wide, just couldn't cope with the front rack looking so at odds with the rear rack (I am from a design background).

I think it might be fairly easy to design a bracket which will prevent any forward or backward movement of the rack without preventing the fork from flexing.

I don't suppose you know what is the maximum deflection of the thorn sherpa fork?  5 mm?

Thanks, T

[mickeg]

I used to use a Surly Nice front rack.  It is quite heavy and I no longer use it.  Instead I use a Tubus Ergo and a second platform rack that mounts to the cantilever brake mounts.  See photo, the platform rack is only used for small lightweight items, such as the jacket that I strapped on to it in the photo.

But, if your goal is to raise the panniers to a higher elevation, the Surly rack certainly gives you that option.  I recall trying the front panniers at different heights several years ago, if I recall correctly I did not really notice any issues with bike handling at different pannier heights.  But if my memory is correct, when the bike was stopped I noticed that the front wheel wanted to turn to one side much more with the load higher.

I made a small bracket that went from the rack to fork crown for the Surly rack.  I think I bent up a short piece of steel strapping for this purpose.

I use a handlebar bag.  When you estimate where the center of gravity is for my combined pannier/handlebar bag load, it probably has the same net effect of a higher pannier setting without a handlebar bag.

[John Saxby]

Nice backdrop for the bike, mikeg. Is that Lake Louise, as below? (Cloud cover changes things.)

[mickeg]

Nice backdrop for the bike, mikeg. Is that Lake Louise, as below? (Cloud cover changes things.)

I do not recall the name of the lake.  I took a day trip on my bike to that lake, was camping at the campground in Waterton Village, Waterton National Park in Alberta, Canada.

[John Saxby]

Lovely spot -- so very similar to L Louise, eh? (Right down to the canoes on the lake.)

[David Simpson]

I also thought it was Lake Louise, but after looking at Google maps and street-view, I see that it is Cameron Lake in Waterton Lakes National Park, in southern Alberta.

- Dave

[NZPeterG]

Well on my Adventure Bike I have fitted a rear carrier to the front forks and have my Custom Made (off my Africa Bike) bag.
I'll be fitting low rider rack later too, a Tubus Tara.

Please Note! if I fit a rear rack it will be to put only a tent in top of it....



My AWOL (Adventure with out limits)



Not my AWOL! But an AWOL loaded the standard way for Adventure's

Kiwi Pete....
 

[jags]

looks like you have things back to front,why would you have all the weight up front surly the steering is all over the place with that set up 

now i'm not being a smart  arse God forbid.but i would do my  very best to stay well away from using front panniers. IMHO it distroys the feel of the bike.

great looking bike tho.

jags.

[Relayer]

I've seen online that a lot of American randonneurs (e.g. Jan Heine) go about with bloody great suitcases on racks above their front wheel.  The difference seems to be that they have "low trail" geometry which makes this work OK. But yeah, it does look extremely odd, to my eye anyway.  

Jim

[jags]

Odd and dangerous if you ask me.
to my mind people carry way to much stuff on tour,it should be possible with all the modern lightweight gear around that you can pack all you need for a world tour into rear panniers and a small barbag for  small odds and ends.

jags.

[NZPeterG]

Hi guys, So you have been wondering why I would only ride with front panniers, Front Bag.
You ask does this not affect steering in a negative way?
What is the reason?  
Short Seatstays with Big feet?

Well I start doing this back in 1988!
Because I like the weight to be the same on my front wheel as the rear! I have seen too many Cycle Tourist over the years with the rear wheel broken!

Here is the Team Awol reply too! below..

Basically, there's nothing to really read up on. A bike with a mid to low trail will hold weight low and in front better than it will off the rear. A rear-loaded bike becomes unusable out of the saddle (sways 20+ lbs side to side) and when descending, it can become even more unstable. Low and front loaded bikes (when they're designed for it) will still ride like normal. You can get out of the saddle, sprint, climb and do just as you could without the weight. They'll descend with the same feeling and will be inherently more predictable. I put a rear rack on my touring bike for camping trips, with only a tent on it… No bags. Here is more on the subject from the Jan Heine perspective http://janheine.wordpress.com/2011/02/10/a-journey-of-discovery-part-4-front-end-geometry/
Team AWOL

So I hope this helps you all, and it is not the USA rider's that start doing this but the European cyclist from years ago......

Please Note: the only time in the 1980's that I had pain with my load up front! was when I ride down a 40 degree down hill in Wales  

Kiwi Pete
 

PS. It ride's light and fast! Have fun riding with a loaded Tailend! 

[jags]

Pete when i had the sherpa most of the time i used rear panniers  and tent on rack never even knew they were there to be honest,but when i  put on the front panniers man it was a terrible ride,it was solid don't get me wrong those sherpas are built like tank's  .
but i felt i was no longer riding a bike just a load carrier.might as well have bought a motorbike.
yeah horses for courses i suppose but i'm sticking with rear panniers only.


jags.

[NZPeterG]

Pete when i had the sherpa most of the time i used rear panniers  and tent on rack never even knew they were there to be honest,but when i  put on the front panniers man it was a terrible ride,it was solid don't get me wrong those sherpas are built like tank's  .
but i felt i was no longer riding a bike just a load carrier.might as well have bought a motorbike.
yeah horses for courses i suppose but i'm sticking with rear panniers only.


jags.

Hi Jags
When I go on a week's plus cycle tour I'll run with front and rear bags and have 50/ 50 load.
It's good for handling at any speeds,  when at work cycle tourist come in with rear bag's loaded so high that coming in a low door is to hard!
Well maybe they came off and hit there head! It's just so hard to ride one into own shop how is it up and down hills?  or off road?  A well loaded touring bike is fun to ride.
With a bike like my Awol handling is fun! fast! and safe.
You all need to try it before cutting me up.
I have been cycle touring for a few years (started in 1987)
I started with big loads and sending gear home by the day.

Have fun cycling and ride a safe good handling bike..... I have a Nomad and the Awol.

Kiwi Pete.....