XTR brakes

[Matt2matt2002]

Took a look at the front brakes on my Raven.
Felt like the left caliper was not releasing fully.
Decided to remove and clean up. Did both sides and adjusted the screws, so running fine now.

Thought I'd take a look at the back since that was only fair on the rear guys. Not that I had noticed anything amiss.
Took off the right hand mech. Quick clean up and grease. No problems.
Went around the other side and realised I had a new situation.



Whats the best sequence for removing the cable holder?
I want to get it right and not have gear problems when I reassemble the brakes.

Also....
I have the blue Swiss pads on the XTR. I have mentioned my feelings about the pads in the wet but what are folks thoughts on the XTRs themselves?
I took a look at the SJS site and couldn't see them there. Have they been superseded?

Matt

[Andybg]

Hi Matt

Can't help on the best way to dismantle but the xtr brakes were considered by many to be the best V brake available. They were an expensive option if I remember at about 150ukp on top of the standard deore.

As you rightly noted they are no longer available, I assume as V brakes are no longer considered the cutting edge of braking

Andy

[JimK]

I think Shimano stopped making the XTRs.

[geocycle]

Diconnect the rohloff cables then unscrew the adjusters so they almost clear the 'bracket'.  Then get an allen key, 4mm perhaps, down past the cables.  You should be able to release the brake arm and pull the whole assembly forward.

[IanW]

Re. Rohloff gear cable hanger / adjusters from cantilever boss:

1) Disconnect both gear change inner cables at the bayonet connectors.
    (i.e. the connectors between the gear cable outers hanger and the Rohloff hub)

2) Note the current insertion length of both barrel adjusters through the gear cable hanger
    because you'll want to reset them back to this same insertion length afterwards.

3) Unscrew both adjusters all the way out such that they are no-longer threaded into the cable hanger at all.
    This allows maximum displacement of the inner gear cables to the side of the inside of the cable hanger.

4) There is no need to actually unthread the inner gear change cables, nor remove the bayonet connectors.

5) Simply feed the 5mm Allen / hex key down the centre of the brake hanger, passed the gear inner cables, and unscrew the Allen / hex bolt, withdrawing the cable hanger as you do so.
    There is no need (and indeed not much possibility of actually removing the Allen / hex bolt from within the cable hanger.

6) Move the gear cable hanger out of the way and you should then have free access to the rest of the cantilever brake arm to service / maintain it.

Returning things back to how they were is a simple reversal of the above steps.

Is that what you needed to know?

[Matt2matt2002]

Thanks Ian.
Just the kind of simple instructions I was looking for.
I'll let you know how I get on.
I was hoping it would be that simple but wanted to check there would be no surprises. I hate it when things suddenly spring apart or don't quite go back into the original position.

Matt

[Donerol]

It's best if you set shifter to gear 14 (or 1) before you disconnect the cables, then make sure it is still in 14 (or 1) when you reconnect them. Otherwise you will appear to lose some of your gears as the shifter won't rotate far enough.  DAHIKT  .

Have a look at pages 77-79 of the printed manual / pages 15-16 of the PDF manual.

[IanW]

I think the recommendation to select gear 1 or 14 before disconnecting the cables applies mostly to the external gear selector version of the Rohloff.

On the internal selector mechanism version of the hub (which is what Matt has), whilst there is no harm in the recommendation, I don't think it is anywhere near "necessary".

In fact, in practice a mid-but-not-gear "7" or "8" typically leaves the bayonet connectors at visibly different positions / heights relative to each other, which makes it easy to identify the pairing, whilst still leaving both ends of each pair in convenient positions to get your fingers to to grab them to effect their reconnection.

Also another tip is: once the adjuster lengths are set back to what they were: connect the cable that is currently the slack cable of the pair. Then turn the gear knob to effect a gear change that removes this slack
then connect the other cable that now has the slack.

Also note that there definitely should be a *little bit* of slack in *both* gear change cables when actually in a gear.
If the cables are too tight they can prevent the hub "settling into" the gear and will increase the wear on the cable runs.

[Donerol]

I think the recommendation to select gear 1 or 14 before disconnecting the cables applies mostly to the external gear selector version of the Rohloff.

In fact, in practice a mid-but-not-gear "7" or "8" typically leaves the bayonet connectors at visibly different positions / heights relative to each other, which makes it easy to identify the pairing, whilst still leaving both ends of each pair in convenient positions to get your fingers to to grab them to effect their reconnection.

I'm sure you are quite right, but I found it all too easy to rotate the shifter out of position while fiddling with the bayonet connectors. And since necessary slack means the shifter indicators are only approximate, I didn't get it back in the right place, and lost a couple of gears.

[IanW]

Hi Donerol,

"Losing a couple of gears because the twist-grip had moved relative to which gear the hub was in" while none-the-less managing to "re-connect both cables at the bayonet connectors" sounds like "quite a lot of slack" to me.

I really do need to slacken-off the adjusters OR do the trick of connecting the slack cable first and then change by one gear to take up that slack and release this slack to the other cable in order to be able to reconnect both cables.

There is just no way, with the amount of slack that I use, for me to be able to get the twist-grip out of phase with the internal change mechanism hub.

And for me, the gear indicator is numerically correct and aligned pretty much spot on in each gear.

So I would have to bow to your experience when you say that it can happen.

Matt: Maybe you should follow Donerol's advice about selecting gear "1" or "14" before disconnecting the bayonet connectors.

[Matt2matt2002]

Thanks folks.
More advice than I could have hoped for.
Just about to make my attempt.
Will report back this evening.

[Matt2matt2002]

All done and dusted
Many thanks to you all for advice and contributions. It would not have gone so well without your input.

Here's a before I started snap.
Nowt wrong with the brakes but since I had taken the other 3 apart for a clean up - I thought I would tackle this one.

They just look as if the springs and internals could do with a clean.

Followed advice on releasing the cables.


The adjusters had been screwed right down so no need to remember where they were.

Here's a couple of the Swisstop pads. I think they need renewing? The small indent indicators are no longer visible.




Did someone on this forum recently saw they had a problem sourcing these pads?

So - everything went back together. Greased a few threads and tweaked the cable.

Once again, sincere thanks to all who contributed. I guess it's not a big job - but to me these things have a habit of getting out of hand - with things not going back the way they came apart.

Matt

Went for a spin and all 14 gears working. Am able to stop on a sixpence. If only I could find one.  

[Danneaux]

Nice job, great results, Matt! Well done.

Best,

Dan.

[geocycle]

Matt, I would run those swisstop brake blocks for a lot longer!  Mine stay on until the metal is in danger of hitting the rims hence more than 10,000 miles of service.  I just add another washer to close the gap to the rims.  I could be stingy...

[Matt2matt2002]

Thanks geocycle. I'm a member of that club too. 
I'll buy x2 pair of spares and keep an eye on them wearing away.
That washer idea is a good one.
Cheers
Matt