Author Topic: Bottom Bracket Business  (Read 4066 times)

Arnaud

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Bottom Bracket Business
« on: November 12, 2006, 01:52:33 am »
It has happened twice to me: the two bolts securing the bottom bracket on my RST almost ready to fall out. There was roughly 1.500km between the incidents. Today I readjusted the position and tightened the bolts again and went one step further: I drilled two tiny holes in the head of the bolts and joined them together with a piece of wire. Same method as used on aircraft. I noticed that on Jenny's bike, who was delivered a few weeks ago, the bolts are done really tight. I don't want to overdo it in fear of doing some damage. I must admit that the first two kilometres of my regular trip are very rough, the grader hasn't been for months. The fact that I run on Panaracers Hi-Road on 70 psi probably makes it worse.
 

Swislon

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Re: Bottom Bracket Business
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2006, 04:13:11 pm »
Hi Arnaud,
This issue seems to have been asked about previously.The answer is in the Thorn owner's manual link attached.
http://www.sjscycles.com/thornwebsite/downloads.html
You may be know all this and have tightened the bolts to prescribed force. If you have then it must be the vibration from the road/track that is loosening them off. I thought I read on here somewhwere that you could't overtighten but I would confirm with Thorn if I were you.

Cheers

stutho

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Re: Bottom Bracket Business
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2006, 09:12:03 pm »
I believe it is possible to over tighten the BB  - the correct setting is 10 to 17NM.  Some, however, have been afraid to tighten the BB - concerned about marking / denting the EBB shell - Don't worry about it is designed to be deformed by the bolts.

Fred A-M

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Re: Bottom Bracket Business
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2006, 02:21:55 pm »
I had a similar experience to Arnaud with my RST, applying reasonable force to tighten the bolts without overdoing it.   Consequently I found that one of the bolts came loose on 2 ocassions.  

Following advice from PH and Stutho, I applied a bit more force and that seemed to fix the problem.  However, when last taking up slack on the chain, I noticed that one of the bolts had to be tightened considerably more, with one going in considerably deeper than the other to achieve a similar degree of torque resistance (if that makes sense).  Am mildly concerned that this may indicate a problem.  Advice appreciated.

Cheers.
 

n/a

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Re: Bottom Bracket Business
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2006, 08:57:33 pm »
Hi Guys,
After an age of research I'm about to buy a Raven Tour, or possibly an EXP, and I find this thread quite alarming.  This deformed EBB shell business sounds like a right codge up.  Does anybody have a photo of a " broken in " BB shell? What would be the potential problems this could cause on an extended tour? Misaligned crank?
I'm assuming that the EBB shell is the part of the frame that houses the BB. If it isn't then please forgive my ignorance.
Thanks.

stutho

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Re: Bottom Bracket Business
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2006, 06:16:30 am »
Hi Shane,

Don't be alarmed as John said the EBB is designed to be dented.  The EBB is NOT part of the frame.  Several people in the past have also been alarmed at this but the system works and is very simple (which is good for me).  

It is maybe a pity that the EBB don’t come pre dented / indexed.  If they did then no one would have a problem.

StuTho

Swislon

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Re: Bottom Bracket Business
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2006, 06:23:32 am »
Further down the line. When it comes time to change the chain and the concentric shell moves back to where you had it at the beginning of its life. Those first dents you made, and subsequent dents will still be there. What happens next ? Assuming that you may not be lined up bang on those original dents, you therefore make some more. Inbetween the others. Eventually you will have a complete dented concentric shell. The question is, if this is right, at what stage should the concentric be replaced ? ( By the way I'm not worried about this, just curious)[?]


stutho

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Re: Bottom Bracket Business
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2006, 07:00:47 am »
I re-use the same dents! - If you remove one bolt completely and look down the hole you can see when you are lined up with a previous dent I then finger tighten the remaining bolt and replace the remove bolt before finally applying torque to both.

Remember that you DO NOT need to make adjustment very often In 3000 miles I have only adjusted it twice.  What you want to end up with are nicely spaced out ‘dents’.  Chain adjustment does not need to be too exact, the nearest indent will do as long as the chain in not too tight.

(NB I have removed the EBB several times (for no good reason) hence the bolt trick)

Swislon

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Re: Bottom Bracket Business
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2006, 07:21:20 am »
Thanks, sounds good practical advice to me.
Anyone had the same problem as Fred ? One bolt going further in than the other one, I hope he hasn't pierced the concentric as warned against in the Thorn manual.

stutho

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Re: Bottom Bracket Business
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2006, 07:40:16 am »
Yes I have notice this too.  It is odd applying torque to a bolt that is deforming what it meets.  The torque does not 'feel' the same and doesn’t increase with the same linearity that you would normally expect.

PH

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Re: Bottom Bracket Business
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2006, 10:09:03 am »
This is tried and tested the technology, EBBs have been used on tandems for decades, without problems.  You’ll end up using the same dents whether you want to or not, if you try and tighten a bolt on the edge of a dent it will pull itself into it, ever tried drilling on the edge of a hole?  The only disadvantage over other types of eccentrics is that you can’t make micro adjustments, once you realise you don’t need to, it’s hardly a disadvantage.  If you’d ever tried to remove a seized wedge type EBB, you’d appreciate that simple is best.  I’d expect it to last the lifetime of the bike, the only way I could see of damaging it would be if you bolted into the thin section against Thorn’s advice.
I don’t know what’s making your bolts come loose.  I check mine weekly, along with every other bolt, fixing and cable, sounds excessive but it’s a routine that take less than 3 minutes.  Occasionally (maybe 3 times in 100) one of the bolts has needed a quarter turn. After making an adjustment I'd check it after about an hours use, I'd do this after changing any part on a bike.
If you’re still concerned, why not give Thorn a ring?  Don’t restrict yourself to the advice of us amateurs [;)]    

Colin

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Re: Bottom Bracket Business
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2006, 10:55:42 am »
Apply Loctite thread lock adhesive on the bolt threads rather than over tighten them!
 

stutho

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Re: Bottom Bracket Business
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2006, 11:19:32 am »
Just thought I would add that my bolts have never slackened off and I very rarely check them.

n/a

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Re: Bottom Bracket Business
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2006, 06:52:52 pm »
Thanks everyone,
It all makes perfect sense now. Javascript:insertsmilie('[:I]')

Arnaud

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Re: Bottom Bracket Business
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2006, 12:37:07 am »
Thank you, very informative contributions.
Recently a friend took me for a joy-flight in his restored Boeing Stearman, that's where I got the idea of securing the bolts together with a piece of wire. I imagine this is very unusual on a bicycle, luckily it is hidden so it won't attract funny comments.