Author Topic: tick tick tick BOOM  (Read 5967 times)

IanW

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tick tick tick BOOM
« on: February 22, 2014, 12:34:39 pm »
I had to retrieve my spouse when her bike "exploded" on her commute home.

She reported a once per wheel revolution "ticking" sound and then heard an explosion.

It looks like the ticking sound was the buldge in the tyre side-wall rubbing against the chain stay.

And the boom was the inner tube going pop.
 
We suspect that the overall cause was pumping the tyre up to full / maximum pressure on a *cold* day
and then failing to check / deflate the tyre pressure when the weather warmed-up possibly combined with some minor pothole bump.

I have now reduced the pressure a bit in the other tyre because it was definitely rather over-pressure when I checked it too as part of the repair process.

JimK

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Re: tick tick tick BOOM
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2014, 01:14:59 pm »
Another possibility... a wide tire on a narrow rim - the geometry puts a lot of stress on the tire and rim. The system really cannot handle the max pressure printed on the tire. That max pressure can even bend the rim - push it a bit wider. Rim brakes will of course make it really obvious if that happened.

Here is my table of recommended tire pressures:

http://interdependentscience.blogspot.com/2013/06/bicycle-tire-pressure.html

Many of the Thorn brochures now have little notes about the dangers of too much pressure with wide tires on narrow rims, including max pressures that are considerably lower than the max printed on the tire.

Andre Jute

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Re: tick tick tick BOOM
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2014, 02:13:39 pm »
[I have no idea how wide Ian's rim and tyre are. I assume he knows better than to fit a really wide tyre on a really narrow rim. These remarks are further to what Jim said.]

Originally the ERTRO recommendations for rim widths to match tyre widths was that rim width should be no less than 40% of tyre width, which is the same as saying the tyre could up to a maximum of 2.5 multiples of rim width. Then the idiot manufacturers, who were too slack to make wider rims to match the new Schwalbe wide tires, screeched to high heavens that their business was being undermined and ERTRO, which is a trade body, cravenly caved in and "authorized" the existing narrow rims for balloon tyres. It's a disaster that sooner or later will hurt a cyclist badly when a correctly inflated but too wide tyre splits a rim at speed.

Many rim manufacturers cheat and publish the rim's outside width with the implication that that is the rim's official width. It's a lie. The ERTRO width of the rim is taken across the bead retainers on the inside of the rim. Thus a 25mm rim, inside, correct measurement, is usually about 32mm wide on the outside. This is the narrowest rim on which a 60mm Big Apple should be fitted.  Wider still is better.

Sensible cyclist will follow the old rule before ERTRO chickened out before undue influence:

MAXIMUM TYRE WIDTH IS NO MORE THAN 2.5 TIME INNER RIM WIDTH
as measured inside the rim across the bead retainers, not the outside of the rim

JimK

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Re: tick tick tick BOOM
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2014, 02:21:20 pm »
My tires are 50 mm wide and my rims have 19 mm inner well width. No big news though, that I am not a sensible cyclist, or actually any other sort of sensible person!

I am thinking of Velocity Cliffhangers for my next rims, after the Andra 30 wear out. If I last that long!

IanW

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Re: tick tick tick BOOM
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2014, 03:08:18 pm »
Quote
I have no idea how wide Ian's rim and tyre are. I assume he knows better than to fit a really wide tyre on a really narrow rim

Michelin City Plus 26" x 1.40" (ETRTO 35-559) tyres
sitting on Rigida Grizzly 26" rims (ETRTO 19-559) rims

I am guessing that the tyres were inflated to approx 75 psi (at 0 degrees centigrade)
and then (a pair of them) ridden by 90 kg rider at 10 degrees centigrade
which is probably pushing it a bit especially if a deep or sharp-exit-edge pothole is ridden through

I would have expected a "snake-bite" / pinch puncture before a tyre side-wall rip

But hey these things happen. It is only a tyre + tube and no other harm done.
(It wasn't even raining and it was a short walk for her to a pub, to await the "recovery vehicle")

Andre Jute

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Re: tick tick tick BOOM
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2014, 06:27:03 pm »
My tires are 50 mm wide and my rims have 19 mm inner well width. No big news though, that I am not a sensible cyclist, or actually any other sort of sensible person!

Sensible people are so dull!

But hey these things happen. It is only a tyre + tube and no other harm done.
(It wasn't even raining and it was a short walk for her to a pub, to await the "recovery vehicle")

Best class of mechanical failure, near an agreeable pub. Still, that seems like a pretty violent failure, at the very least startling.

jags

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Re: tick tick tick BOOM
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2014, 07:03:59 pm »
My God an explosion like that would bring the whole peleton down.thats the best blow out i've seen in years  ;D ;D

JimK

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Re: tick tick tick BOOM
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2014, 12:02:43 am »
A long shot but another way something like that could happen is if the brake blocks are rubbing on the tire. Probably you already checked that but just in case.

geocycle

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Re: tick tick tick BOOM
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2014, 11:29:00 am »
A long shot but another way something like that could happen is if the brake blocks are rubbing on the tire. Probably you already checked that but just in case.

Yes, I'd be looking at a tyre failure, somthing in the construction or something has holed it.  The pressures and weights you quote are not excessive for the rim or tyre, perhaps at the upper end and maybe not optimal for comfort,  but should be within tolerances.  Might be worth also checking the accuracy of the gauge on your pump.
 

Danneaux

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Re: tick tick tick BOOM
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2014, 05:44:30 pm »
I second Geo's thesis; the blowout and result look exactly like what I used to see regularly from Michelin's Elan-series tires in the late 1970s. See: http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.aspx?ID=0f071f1d-d055-4fb2-90c3-27b0be518ff3&Enum=120

I suspect a vulcanizing flaw at the bead-wrap tape and think the carcass failure precipitated the tube blowout.

Best,

Dan. (...who would enjoy a bicycle version of CSI on television)

IanW

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Re: tick tick tick BOOM
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2014, 06:18:36 pm »
A long shot but another way something like that could happen is if the brake blocks are rubbing on the tire. Probably you already checked that but just in case.

Hmm, I had not checked whether the brake blocks might be overshooting the rim and thus rubbing on the tyre side-wall.

But I have now checked, and there is absolutely no problem with brake-to-rim alignment (XTR parallogram mechanism).
The blocks hit the rim radially centrally and there is plenty of rim radially either side of the brake-block contact / "landing" zone.

However upon further examination of the tyre carcass, there is very noticable thinness of the rubber for a considerable distance circumferentially on either side of the actual tear between tyre bead and side-wall

So I am now reasonably convinced about a defective tyre construction.

The question is: Is this a single instance of defective construction? (Or is it damage caused after a previous puncture deflation?)
Or is it a poor quality tyre (batch)?

Danneaux

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Re: tick tick tick BOOM
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2014, 06:36:55 pm »
Quote
The question is: Is this a single instance of defective construction? (Or is it damage caused after a previous puncture deflation?)
Or is it a poor quality tyre (batch)?
Not sure of the brand/model/size, Ian, but a quick search online with that information followed by the magic term "failure" should turn up any further instances and give some indication if "they all do it" or not.

Best,

Dan.

JimK

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Re: tick tick tick BOOM
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2014, 10:07:40 pm »
yeah some very grumpy reviews on Amazon, if this is the tire:

http://www.amazon.com/Michelin-Protek-Reflective-Sidewalls-26x1-4/dp/B001CSRX18


JimK

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Re: tick tick tick BOOM
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2014, 10:10:07 pm »
and here too - one review talks about the bead separating... looks like a bad batch somehow:

http://www.biketiresdirect.com/product/michelin-city-tire-26-inch

IanW

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Re: tick tick tick BOOM
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2014, 12:46:04 am »
Yes Jim, that's the tyre

I won't be buying any more of these.