Author Topic: Returning a second hand Rohloff for repair.  (Read 11573 times)

MilitantGraham

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Returning a second hand Rohloff for repair.
« on: January 22, 2014, 11:39:26 AM »
I've got four rohloff hubs in total, one bought new, three bought second hand, although I've lost track of which is which.
One on the tandem.
One on my "race" mountain bike.
One on my "spare" mountain bike
One on my grrlfriend's bike.

Two of them are playing up, either not engaging the gears and slipping, which can be cured by backpedalling half a turn, or appearing to engage, then slipping some time later.
Oil changes haven't cured them.

According to Rohloff "Any problems with the Rohloff SPEEDHUB 500/14 should be firstly taken up with your local dealer"
I haven't been to the bike shop where I bought the new one for a long time, so it seems a bit cheeky to go back there now expecting them to sort out a warranty claim. Especially so, considering at least one of them wasn't bought there.
So, before I email Rohloff themselves, has anyone else dealt with them direct ?
Both  hubs leak slightly, so I take it I will be charged for new seals as wearable parts
What about other parts, postage and my inability to prove I have changed the oil every year ? Who pays for what and how much is it likely to be ?

Andre Jute

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Re: Returning a second hand Rohloff for repair.
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2014, 01:56:39 PM »
I have absolutely no first-hand experience of returning a hub to Rohloff but some general remarks might help.

1. Rohloff has a new guarantee. It is not transferable to the second owner but I've never heard of a genuine second owner being refused service.

2. Even beyond the new guarantee, Rohloff generally does not charge the first owner for repairs unless the hub has been abused by failure to maintain it or by unauthorized disassembly. Once more, I haven't heard of second owners being refused, or charged over the top -- and we would have, for sure; people who can afford a Rohloff are pretty articulate and plugged in.

3. A Rohloff gear box isn't a fully sealed device like a car gearbox. It is intended to "mist out" a certain amount of oil, especially if you have filled it to the handbook spec or over (25ml of new oil after cleaning and draining thoroughly). So oil appearing on the gearbox and spokes, or even on the floor below it, is not necessarily cause for returning the gearbox to Rohloff: it depends on how much oil appears. You also want to be certain the puddle is not condensed water (as a newbie Rohloff owner a puddle of condensed water caused me a bit of a panic...).

4. Before you even approach Rohloff, you should ascertain that the consumables in the drivetrain are not responsible for the problem. You have three examples of the same problem. Did you fit a whole bunch of chains new at the same time? You should check that the chains are still serviceable and inspect the sprockets closely for wear. To me it sounds like both chain and socket are worn on each of the bikes with the problem, and that back-pedalling merely engages a less worn part of both which works at certain velocities. Also, while a Rohloff chain is intended to be fitted quite slack (about a centimeter of vertical movement), if the chain is too slack, perhaps from wear, it should be tightened by moving the hub back in the horizontal slots or adjusting the eccentric bottom bracket, and if these are at the end of their adjustment, taking out a link.

5. Rohloff presumably have their ways of telling whether a hub has been serviced at the specified intervals of 5K. But I have not heard of proof being demanded and Rohloff are aware that world tourers and others sometimes go twice that distance before the service kit catches up with them.

6. What you're in fact more likely to have to prove is that you came by the used Rohloff gearboxes legally. Rohloff is quite clear that they refuse service to any gearbox that has the serial number sticker removed (and the serial is engraved on the case in the current series). If you have the serial number stickers still attached, and receipts for your gearboxes, it might be smart to photocopy proof of ownership and supply it before being asked. (I know this sounds offensive, but I have considerable experience of doing business with Germans. A German would do this and consider it proper. Hell, a German lady, declining my invitation to dinner, included a doctor's certificate to prove she was really too ill to go out...)

7. I don't know where you live, but unless you live next door to Rohloff, it could be expensive to send three wheels or even three gearboxes cut out of the wheels to Rohloff, and you'll kick yourself if you then discover it's a matter of replacing a paper filter on each (just for the sake of an example -- I'm not suggesting a new paper filter is what is required) and the labour charges amount to twenty spondulicks and the parts are so trivial they're free -- but you're out of hundreds for carriage. Go to the dealer, explain, ask him for his advice. People love giving advice.

Good luck

MilitantGraham

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Re: Returning a second hand Rohloff for repair.
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2014, 06:47:04 PM »
It's only two hubs playing up, not three.
One of them doesn't always engage certain gears. If I give it about half a turn of the pedals backwards, it seems to click in to gear. Once it's in gear it stays there.
The other one always engages every gear, but sometimes, a few seconds or a few minutes later, it will slip in some gears.

In both cases it is definitely the hub as they will never slip in other gears.

It's not just oil mist,they are both clearly leaking.

All the hubs are the older non-engraved type and have all still got their serial number stickers.

I build my own wheels and will probably be replacing the rim on one of the hubs soon anyway, so if it's significantly cheaper to post a bare hub, I'll strip the rims and spokes off them both.

sweats

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Re: Returning a second hand Rohloff for repair.
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2014, 11:35:53 AM »
Hi MG
I have returned a couple of hubs to Rohloff for servicing. One was slipping under load and one had a worn out gear selector shaft. Both were sent back via SJSC. Rohloff had no quibles and did the work free of charge - excellent service! Both hubs were well out of warranty but still had their serial number stickers on. SJSC provided excellent help and service considering that neither hub had been purchased from them. SJSC remove the internals and send them back to Rohloff without the wheel. If you are in the UK I would give Dave a call at SJSC.
I have stripped down one of my hubs but it is not for the faint hearted! There were 2 useful strip and rebuild vids on youtube. Hope that is helpful?
Chris
« Last Edit: January 23, 2014, 01:01:35 PM by sweats »

Dave Whittle Thorn Workshop

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Re: Returning a second hand Rohloff for repair.
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2014, 04:09:29 PM »
I'm happy for you to send them into me please complete these forms http://www.rohloff.de/fileadmin/rohloffde/download/preisliste_bestellung/EN_Rohloff_returnform_150211.pdf and make sure the serials are visible on the hub.  Please note if they are found to have been registered stolen they are handed by Rohloff to the German police, this has happened several times (not to us fortunatly).  Sending them to us means they can be shipped back free of charge, any work required thats not a manufacturing defect will be charged but you will be given a quote first.

Quote
I have stripped down one of my hubs but it is not for the faint hearted! There were 2 useful strip and rebuild vids on youtube.

Please don't do this, there are two liquid sealants required to re-seal the shifting shaft and a couple of washers that you have to replace once the tension has been released on them, neither of which are avalible to anyone other than a service centre, and both of which are made specialy for Rohloff.

Dave

Tigerbiten

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Re: Returning a second hand Rohloff for repair.
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2014, 05:03:06 PM »
Whats the turn around time like for shipping a wheel to Rohloff and back ??

I have a Speedhub I would like to ship to Rohloff which I've probably over-torqued it slightly due to running lower gears than recommended, hence a slight grating sound under load.

crossy

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Re: Returning a second hand Rohloff for repair.
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2014, 06:36:52 PM »
Hi I'm new on here been reading a lot though.  I've got a second hand bike with a Rohloff hub which started skipping in 1 - 7 tried everything changing oil, new cables that didn't work. I had the receipt from the original owner so contacted the shop that sold it They said to post the hub still in the wheel which I did.  I sent it to them  on the 31 Dec they sent it on to Rohloff.  I received it back 19 Jan.  Plus the I wasn't charged for it.  The hub received the following services inspection , shifting point recalibration hope this helps.  Nigel

geocycle

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Re: Returning a second hand Rohloff for repair.
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2014, 09:26:11 AM »
Whats the turn around time like for shipping a wheel to Rohloff and back ??

I have a Speedhub I would like to ship to Rohloff which I've probably over-torqued it slightly due to running lower gears than recommended, hence a slight grating sound under load.

Not trying to be clever here, but do try and slacken the skewer off first  - I've fixed two 'problems' with those symptoms for friends this way...
 

Joe C

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Re: Returning a second hand Rohloff for repair.
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2014, 08:01:09 PM »
Glad I found this thread!

just bought a Rohloff and found it has slipping issues in 6,7 13 and 14, been through the recommended things, cable tightness, whack the axle ends, ect. so have sent it in to Dave Wittle, fingers crossed!

Danneaux

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Re: Returning a second hand Rohloff for repair.
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2014, 09:00:55 PM »
Hi Joe!

Welcome to the Thorn Cycling Forum!

I'm sure Dave will get you sorted soonest. Please let us know how you come out After and what was wrong, if you can.

Best,

Dan.

Joe C

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Re: Returning a second hand Rohloff for repair.
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2014, 06:05:29 PM »
Thanks Dan, I will do.

it was an ebay hub, I think I was just unlucky, I ride with two people that have them so know how bombproof they normally are.

I know that 6,7 13 &14 all share a "clutch" so oit looks like there may be an issue there, maybe a weak spring.

MilitantGraham

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Re: Returning a second hand Rohloff for repair.
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2014, 10:26:47 AM »
Thanks for the replies.
In the end, after remembering that I'd bought one of the second hand hubs from the same shop where I bought the new one, I took them both back there.
He was happy to send them back for me.
I've only got one of them back so far and have been charged £12 each for postage, no repair charge.

Joe C

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Re: Returning a second hand Rohloff for repair.
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2014, 07:06:16 PM »
Well,

A big box turned up today with a wheel in! which was a supprise as I was expecting to at least to be asked for payment from Thorn/SJS to myself.

According to the paperwork Rohloff have just done an inspection and shifting point recalibration, Ive popped the wheel in and I can't feel the problem although I havent been for a ride yet.

Many thanks to Dave and the Thorn/SJS crew, and of course Rohlof AB for an alround great response.


subeedude

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Re: Returning a second hand Rohloff for repair.
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2014, 06:37:11 AM »
I have absolutely no first-hand experience of returning a hub to Rohloff but some general remarks might help.

1. Rohloff has a new guarantee. It is not transferable to the second owner but I've never heard of a genuine second owner being refused service.

2. Even beyond the new guarantee, Rohloff generally does not charge the first owner for repairs unless the hub has been abused by failure to maintain it or by unauthorized disassembly. Once more, I haven't heard of second owners being refused, or charged over the top -- and we would have, for sure; people who can afford a Rohloff are pretty articulate and plugged in.

3. A Rohloff gear box isn't a fully sealed device like a car gearbox. It is intended to "mist out" a certain amount of oil, especially if you have filled it to the handbook spec or over (25ml of new oil after cleaning and draining thoroughly). So oil appearing on the gearbox and spokes, or even on the floor below it, is not necessarily cause for returning the gearbox to Rohloff: it depends on how much oil appears. You also want to be certain the puddle is not condensed water (as a newbie Rohloff owner a puddle of condensed water caused me a bit of a panic...).

4. Before you even approach Rohloff, you should ascertain that the consumables in the drivetrain are not responsible for the problem. You have three examples of the same problem. Did you fit a whole bunch of chains new at the same time? You should check that the chains are still serviceable and inspect the sprockets closely for wear. To me it sounds like both chain and socket are worn on each of the bikes with the problem, and that back-pedalling merely engages a less worn part of both which works at certain velocities. Also, while a Rohloff chain is intended to be fitted quite slack (about a centimeter of vertical movement), if the chain is too slack, perhaps from wear, it should be tightened by moving the hub back in the horizontal slots or adjusting the eccentric bottom bracket, and if these are at the end of their adjustment, taking out a link.

5. Rohloff presumably have their ways of telling whether a hub has been serviced at the specified intervals of 5K. But I have not heard of proof being demanded and Rohloff are aware that world tourers and others sometimes go twice that distance before the service kit catches up with them.

6. What you're in fact more likely to have to prove is that you came by the used Rohloff gearboxes legally. Rohloff is quite clear that they refuse service to any gearbox that has the serial number sticker removed (and the serial is engraved on the case in the current series). If you have the serial number stickers still attached, and receipts for your gearboxes, it might be smart to photocopy proof of ownership and supply it before being asked. (I know this sounds offensive, but I have considerable experience of doing business with Germans. A German would do this and consider it proper. Hell, a German lady, declining my invitation to dinner, included a doctor's certificate to prove she was really too ill to go out...)

7. I don't know where you live, but unless you live next door to Rohloff, it could be expensive to send three wheels or even three gearboxes cut out of the wheels to Rohloff, and you'll kick yourself if you then discover it's a matter of replacing a paper filter on each (just for the sake of an example -- I'm not suggesting a new paper filter is what is required) and the labour charges amount to twenty spondulicks and the parts are so trivial they're free -- but you're out of hundreds for carriage. Go to the dealer, explain, ask him for his advice. People love giving advice.

Good luck

I would like to know more about the German lady who provided you a doctor's note for why she could go out with you.  Just kidding, but very interesting.

I paid a hell of a lot of money for a used Rohloff that was already mounted on a wheel with a disc rotor.  I paid 1400 US dollars, which at the time was what a new hub was going for.  I reasoned that the hub I purchased would be "run" in and more useable than if I purchased a new Rohloff, which I reasoned would cost me another 300 dollars for the chain gear, brake disc, external gear box and mounted on a new wheel.  After sitting in my garage for about a year, I am just now mounting.  The proof will be in the pudding, but was my logic sound in theory?

Andre Jute

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Re: Returning a second hand Rohloff for repair.
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2014, 10:21:19 AM »
I paid a hell of a lot of money for a used Rohloff that was already mounted on a wheel with a disc rotor.  I paid 1400 US dollars, which at the time was what a new hub was going for.  I reasoned that the hub I purchased would be "run" in and more useable than if I purchased a new Rohloff, which I reasoned would cost me another 300 dollars for the chain gear, brake disc, external gear box and mounted on a new wheel.  After sitting in my garage for about a year, I am just now mounting.  The proof will be in the pudding, but was my logic sound in theory?

It may be possible that you got the practice right, depending on what value you put on avoiding small irritations, which in a new Rohloff gearbox amount to two:

New, it can be stiff-changing. Around a couple of thousand kilometers it becomes smother as it runs in.

In the top gears of the low range, and especially in 7th, there's an enervating sighing sound which grows less intense with the miles, but doesn't go away altogether even in boxes with considerable mileage, but still young in Rohloff years.

See, a Rohloff gearbox, unlike a Shimano hub gearbox, comes with all the bits to fit it: sprocket, cables, handlebar control, junction between cables and gearbox. Built into a high quality rim with the best spokes, that lot costs about a thousand euro in Germany. At your door in the States, depending on carriage, exchange, and customs duties, that's around 1500-1600, I suppose.

So. If you have to buy fitting bits at retail, you'd probably have been better of buying new.

If you got all the fitting bits, and you're lucky with customs, maybe you're up, in real money, the cost of the 4-bolt special disc, about 70-80 bucks.

Plus of course the value you put on avoiding the annoyances intrinsic to a new Rohloff -- check the posts here, some of them anguished, from new Rohloff owners who expected it to be smoother and more silent...

Welcome to the club.