Which Thorn?

[Swislon]

Hi Forumers,
I sold my RST a few months back.
I am in the market for a bike that I can use in the winter months, light touring and mixed road rides with off road on Yorkshire's "green roads". What is often called "Roughstuff".
This could be 25 miles on road and 15 miles off road on bridleways, trails, forest tracks etc. Therefore not pure mountain biking.
I would like it to be reasonably sprightly on the road sections and for the winter rides which will most likely be all road.
I prefer 700c wheels as I am 6' 2 and think that 26" on a large frame look a little awkward. However I guess function should outweigh form.
It would also need reasonable mudguard clearance and no toe overlap.
The RST wheel base was too short for this kind of riding imo. OK for the odd ride off road but with short chainstays a little limiting.

Which Thorn model(s) do you think would fit the bill?

Best
Steve

[Danneaux]

Hi Steve!

I don't think there is a model currently in Thorn's lineup that exactly fits all your needs (we're awaiting that Rohloff Twenty-Niner), but you can surely hit the mark with some models. It sounds as if you'd like to stay with a Rohloff/Raven model for low maintenance.

How 'bout a Raven? It would have many of the virtues of your late RST but with a longer wheelbase. A Nomad Mk2 seems a bit overkill for your intended needs, and the Nomad "X" is no longer available.

The Raven allows for mudguards and a wide variety of tires to best tune it for your needs. There would be no toe overlap. It is a versatile all-'rounder, and is available in a size that would fit and is in current production. I understand the aesthetics -- it took me awhile to adjust to the appearance of a 26in-wheeled tourer after riding 27in/700C for so long -- but yes, sometimes the results are beautiful in terms of how well they function. The 26in wheel will surely be strong and versatile, and so is the bike. There's a choice of handlebars and frames with short or long top tubes and a range of rims and tires. As Andy Blance says...

You can focus the RAVEN towards being a load carrying machine, or you can focus it towards being a super-comfortable, sporty, light-weight, thoroughbred beastie for rough roads, by selecting the appropriate fork

Hard to imagine going far wrong with a Raven for your stated needs. Looking back, my Sherpa Mk2 excelled at just that sort of unladen usage, and its frame was similar to the current Raven's, though the changes in tube diameter Andy made when rationalizing sizes and greater choice in forks makes the Raven an even more versatile all-'rounder.

Best,

Dan.

[Swislon]

Hi Dan,
Thanks for your reply. The Raven is the one that sort of shouts to me as well if I go for another Rohloff!
Strangely enough I didn't try one out when I visited Thorn at the end of September. I was of very foucused on the Mercury but have decided to stay with derailleur
for my faster day rides (fast is a relative term !). However I did have a quick spin on one at the Cycle Show in 2012 and it was very comfortable especially with the 853 fork.

My current list is the Raven and a Spa Ti Tourer (700c 35mm tyres, 71 degree head angle). I should also probably wait to see what the new Thorn Club Tour is like as well.
Apart form the 26" (i know it's a bit vain) wheels the only thing that bothers me a little is the weight. The Raven like most Thorns are, what shall we say, built in a robust way.

Best
Steve

[NZPeterG]

Hi
A Yellow Nomad.


Pete...

[Andybg]

Although it is running 26 inch wheels the Sherpa is still a very capable bike and with the right wheelset can still be a quick bike but with the added benefit of its ability to take some seriously wide tyres. I am not convinced about the quality of some of these "low price" titanium frames compared to a high grade steel frame. Also running fat tyres can be quick on tarmac but still give some "suspension" on the roughstuff. If the Rohloff is not a necesatiy then it is a lower cost option

Andy

[Andybg]

There is still a mk2 Sherpa in a size right for you? at a very good price from SJS

http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/thorn-sherpa-mk2-610s-gloss-red-expedition-touring-bike-new-prod31238/

You know you want it really

LOL

Andy

[Danneaux]

+1 with Andy on the viability of the Sherpa if you don't specifically need the Rohloff drivetrain, Steve. They're a terrific value and a terrific all-'rounder. A Mk2 would do you well, or the later Mk3 has a frame identical in geometry and diameters to the Raven.

Tune it with tires or swap in a Thudbuster ST (or an LT of clearance allows) and you're set.

The derailleur Thorns are fantastic bikes.

Best,

Dan.

[in4]

Sterling.

[honesty]

The mercury has clearance for fat tyres and a good choice of disc brakes for off road, just not sure about the frame strength.

[triaesthete]

Hi Steve
this is exactly the sort of exploratory day riding I have moved towards because the Rohloff Thorns with the more flexible/resilient  lighter gauge tubing (eg RST and Sterling, with 858 tube wall thickness rather than 959) are so well suited to it. The 26 inch wheels also allow room for much greater mudguard clearances without toe overlap and they give more saddlebag clearance to boot.

Can you explain more about RST stay length and wheelbase being a limiting factor?

Honesty, I don't think rough stuff would break a Mercury as it will (I think) have passed euro stress tests that are now quite stringent. I'd be more worried about wheel strength.

I've had a Sherpa as well and found it too harsh rigid and unyielding for this sort of unloaded but rough dayriding use. But it is VERY strong and begs for a payload.

I keep wondering how a 650b and Rohloff converted FrankenThorn Audax (poor man's Mercury but more flexible)  would work for this sort of use......

And I would love one of these new fangled 853 forks to replace the Mount Tura and make the Sterling even plusher off road without adding any high maintenance requirements...

Happy day dreams
Ian

[Swislon]

Hi All,

A Raven with 700c wheels would probably be perfect. (or even 650B... just saying)

I had a good long look at the Sherpa Andy and looks great but still 26" wheels.

The Mercury is expensive, probably another £800 to £1000 more than the Raven. If it had longer chainstays which would help the stability on the off road sections and luggage carrying (big feet and the RST could only take quite small panniers) then it may have been a contender. I am sure it would be strong enough even with lightweight wheels. Longerwheel base adds to the comfort factor and off road downhill stability.

The Raven (or Sherpa Mk3), Rohloff (or derailleur) I feel are the only Thorn possibilities at the moment. I think the Rohloff would be better off road where changing gear is so much more forgiving. That leaves me with the Raven but can I live with 26" wheels again?

Obviously I haven't answered that yet or I would have ordered one! Cycling shouldn't be this difficult.................

All the best

Steve 

[Danneaux]

A Raven with 700c wheels would probably be perfect. (or even 650B... just saying)

Hi Steve!

If 650b would do...you could like do-it-yourself and lace on a pair. See:  http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3893.0

I found the brake boss placement on both my Sherpa Mk2 and Nomad Mk2 would allow pads to nicely meet-up with 650B wheels, and overall diameter with 650x38b tires is within 1mm of my 26x2.0in Schwalbe Duremes. In other words, the rims are larger, but the tires are smaller, so the outside diameter is essentially the same and the brake pads would reach fine on my two examples.

But, except for the aesthetics of seeing larger wheels, you'd end up in the same place except for running narrower tires at the same diameter. However, checking my clearances carefully, I *think* you could safely go to 650x42B Grand Bois Hetres and still run mudguards and have stay clearances, but I can't guarantee it; you'd be wise to check the frame you intend to use.

That said, you'd probably be better off with a true balloon-bike 26in tire application instead, but that gets you back to the aesthetics of smaller-diameter wheels.

Cycling shouldn't be this difficult....

Oh, it's the challenge, Steve; where would we be if it was all easy?

Best,

Dan.

[moodymac]

What about the Club Tour?  It already seems to have everything you want.  It broke the time record for the Pan American Highway (over 14,000 miles, 22,500 k).  Some of that was dirt road and off road.  That, and being fully loaded and unsupported at the time.

Tom

[StuntPilot]

Steve

I have a Raven Tour 2009 (26 inch wheels) and this summer part of my tour took me across the 'Roughstuff'. Here is the particular day's GPS track.

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/385534524

Terrible weather, gritty tracks and puddles and with a 36 kg load. No problem. A great bike for those conditions and very comfortable. The current Raven Tour is I believe a bit lighter but would still suit the conditions well for light touring in these conditions!

Richard

[geocycle]

Hi Steve!

If 650b would do...you could like do-it-yourself and lace on a pair. See:  http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3893.0

I found the brake boss placement on both my Sherpa Mk2 and Nomad Mk2 would allow pads to nicely meet-up with 650B wheels, and overall diameter with 650x38b tires is within 1mm of my 26x2.0in Schwalbe Duremes. In other words, the rims are larger, but the tires are smaller, so the outside diameter is essentially the same and the brake pads would reach fine on my two examples.

But, except for the aesthetics of seeing larger wheels, you'd end up in the same place except for running narrower tires at the same diameter. However, checking my clearances carefully, I *think* you could safely go to 650x42B Grand Bois Hetres and still run mudguards and have stay clearances, but I can't guarantee it; you'd be wise to check the frame you intend to use.

That said, you'd probably be better off with a true balloon-bike 26in tire application instead, but that gets you back to the aesthetics of smaller-diameter wheels. Oh, it's the challenge, Steve; where would we be if it was all easy?

Best,

Dan.

I think this is a serious option for larger size Raven frames. I agree that they do look gawky even if function is brilliant. If you are not going around the world then some of the advantages are not there. I doubt it would change the handling very much.