Raven Sport Tour

[ians]

very nice pictures Fred - inspired me to get off my backside.

Ian

[Fred A-M]

Cheers Ian - let me know of any outcomes!  I seem to recall that you're a fellow RST owner?

Equally, with the onset of Autumn, I'm trying to inspire myself as I've not ridden outside of my commute since August!  Think i'm going to invest in some decent lights and start attempting to some Audax events by way a novel solution to providing myself with some new challenges, inspired by the RaucousAUKs' PBP blog!

[alstan]

I have been mulling over getting another bike for quite awhile now, I am a supporter of the theory I read on one of the threads that the “number of bikes you need is the number you currently own plus one”.  My wife does not read this forum.

Due to a broken leg that has kept me off the streets for the last 3 months I have been spending an unnatural amount of time poring over this forum, and, like many others have deliberated long and hard over what type and which bike to go for.  I must say I have found the information on this site to be most helpful.

I use an Ultegra equipped Scott Speedster which is ideal for the generally excellent road and weather conditions here in Oman; I cycle with the Muscat Road group. I also have an aging but still functional Saracen Hybrid. I was going to buy a Catalyst and join the off road group but with the leg and time remaining in country that plan has been kaiboshed.

On our return to the UK in the summer I am planning to do LEJOG and will also need a bike as a winter trainer; to cut to the chase I have decided to go for an RST.  I have been impressed by the unequivocal praise that you all give the bike and I fancy something a little different, hence why I have not gone for an Audax Mk3; a Rohloff equipped fast tourer should fit the bill nicely. If in the future I want to do more off road stuff then I will deal with that at the time (see para 1).

I will need to order the bike blind and will not have the luxury of visiting SJS beforehand, the 100 day offer is however very reassuring.

What I am finding a little bewildering is the choice of upgrades, particularly components that I am not familiar with.  It appears to be very easy to increase the price of the bike significantly and I suppose the thrust of this post is to find out what you have found to be useful, what is necessary and what sits in the ‘nice to have’ bracket.  

Thoughts so far:

•   I want drops, that is what I am used to and prefer. The shifter on the stem does not worry me.
•   I like the idea of a Brooks saddle, is it worth upgrading to titanium rails?
•   Brakes- I am used to LX on my Saracen and they seem ok, is XTR that much better again?
•   I will probably go for a SON dynamo front hub.
•   Rims – No idea
•   Stem – No idea. Help!
•   Tyres- I use Shwalbes on my road bike and have been pleased with them, any thoughts against the Panracer?
•   Mudguards - Can’t be much different in weight between plastic and carbon, but if the carbon finishes the bike off better then probably worth the money.

I welcome your comments on this and any other nuggets you may have.

[Fred A-M]

Hi Alstan

Congratulations on taking the plunge, though with the 100 day option, is never too much of a risk.

The most "useful" upgrade I undertook to the RST pre-purchase was the black Rolhoff hub finish which in the long-term will retain its looks: the silver finish degrades signficantly within 2/3 years.  

The only other significant upgrade at the time was to upgrade to Deore LX brakes which certainly do their job extremely well.  

I've actually just upgraded to a Brooks B17 titanium: hard to say if its worthy of the upgrade above a standard B17 because I've not owned one before, but one thing for sure is that I don't regret it.  Despite the breaking in process yet to be undertaken, I already find it as comfortable as the gel saddle, and needless to say, it enhances the look of the bike.

I've also just yesterday installed a Son Dynohub in conjunction with a Supernova E3 front and rear light.  Again, it's early days but from the test ride I undertook last night, it's looking to be money well spent: no noticeable resistance from the hub and the lights look well-equipped to cope with total darkness, though have yet to do the acid test on this one.

Rims: I actually stuck with the CR18 for the dynohub, from other feedback on the forum these seem to have a life of around 6,000 to 8,000 miles which did initially strike me as a little short, but having bought an RST instead of the tour, I see little point in going for a more hard wearing rim and compromising on the slender weight advantage of the RST.  The CR18s have performed fine and proved to be extremely reliable.  

Avoid Shimano replacement brake blocks at all costs: the first replacement set I bought started enthusiastically shredding the rims.  Aztecs seem to be much kinder and as effective.

Tyres: I had panracers which performed fine at first, but I later discovered, have very thin side-walls and my rear tyre started to split on only its 2nd tour. I've replaced them with Schwalbe Marathon Racers, which though expensive, have been impressive and have thicker side-walls! I've used schwalbes on nearly on my tours and they've never failed me.

Hope this helps!

Fred

PS, If it's of any reassurance, I also bought blind and never once regretted my decision.

[ians]

Hi alstan

I have the RST and am very pleased with it.  You're right - it's very easy to get swept up with the upgrades.

To try and answer your questions directly;
1. Brooks B17 titanium.  
I had a B17 about 20 years ago.  Hated it - like a slab of concrete - swore I'd never have one again.  While speccing the RST,  my wife offers to buy the B17 Honey with titanium rails as a birthday present.  I think - they look good - if I can't get on with it then eBay. (there's a good market in 2nd hand saddles)

Well, it was a great surprise - comfortable the moment I sat on it.  A little proofhide and I haven't had to touch it since June.

2. LX brakes seem fine - but mine are Vees on straight bars.  Don't know about LX and drop levers.

3. Rims; Mavic xc717.  No real reason other than sentiment - my first road bike had mavic rims.

4. Stem is usually a function of size/fit and was specified by SJS.  Don't cut the steerer until you're sure.

5. Tyres; interesting one.  I chose panracer hi-road (1.5") without much thought.  I was staggered just how swift this bike is on the road.  I wasn't expecting it to be as quick as it was.  Then I had a 3 hour ride on rough stuff and found the handling twitchy and punctured the rear.  I began to wonder if I should have chosen the Raven Tour with its more forgiving handling and capacity for wider tyres.  

Had a long chat with Andy Blance; he said that he would have spec'd the 1.75" pasela tourguards for me. In the end I went for Schwalbe Marathons (1.5") which are slightly wider than the hi-roads but not as wide as the tourguards.  A little slower but cope with my commute and my local riding which is a mix of road and rubble (cycle ways).

6. Carbon Mudguards; can't comment - though if you do want a bit of the black stuff, I can recommend the carbon seat post as a fine match for the B17.

I went down to Bridgewater and tested the Raven Tour (they didn't have an RST in my size).  That is a very nice bike and nippy.  In the end I went for the Sport Tour because I'm not planning on heavy duty touring.  Andy B assured me that the RST will cope with routes like the C2C which have some off road sections and Fred A-M seems to manage the rougher roads in Spain without much difficulty so I am confident I made the right choice.

And I also subscribe to your maxim about the number of bikes you need; if I had gone for the Tour I couldn't have justified the On-one In bred I found recently.

Do talk or mail SJS.  They're very helpful but give as much information as you can.  There are plenty of people on this forum who've bought blind and have been happy.  

Good luck.

Ian

[PH]

The only upgrades I choose on my tour were a brooks B17 saddle, Schmidt hub and lights, the rest was standard and has served well.  I replaced the front rim with a carbide one when it wore out, I'd recommend it for improved wet weather breaking and staying clean.  One of the reasons I didn't go for drops is the poor quality brake levers which I'd used before.  My LBS has some new ones in, I didn't pay much attention but they were telling someone how much better they were.
It is easy to get carried away, but I think the standard spec is pretty well thought out and I'd need a specific requirement before changing anything.

[Fred A-M]

Unless you have a limitless budget on the initial spend, I'd agree with Paul that the bike is pretty well set up with the obvious exception of lights.  Nearly 2 years on I've upgraded some components simply because my wishes/needs have evolved a little since the initial purchase; having just installed the Schmidt, Supernova E3s and the B17Ti, it's like owning a new bike all over.  Such is my sense of satisfaction, I'm reliving the moment of the original purchase and find myself wandering the flat just so that I can sneek yet another admiring glance behind my girlfriend's back!

[stutho]

Hi alstan,
Welcome to the forum

1) Drops - Good to hear you are going for drops.  I think drop bars suite the RST well adding extra speed and comfort.
2) B17Ti - I find mine excellent - it did take a while to brake it in though - every bottom is different I guess.
3) Brakes - I think the best rim brakes for a Raven are Avid Ultimate$.  Unfortunately SJSC don't stock them. I've not used the XTR's but I have heard good things.
4) SON - I wish I had my bike had one, an excellent addition to any bike - next year I may upgrade.
5) Rims - being that you are not intending to go heavy touring I would recommend the Mavic 717 rims. Upgrade to the ceramic version if you are doing high mileage (and the purse)
6) Stem - let SJSC choose it for you, they are very good at getting the right size
7) Tyres - I have recently being using a Panracer Pasela tourguard 1.25" - It is a light and quick tire however it also a bit twitchy, not sure I like it.
Mudguards - Personally I would stick with the standard ones and use the money elsewhere.

No. of bikes required = No. of bikes owned + 1.  Since owning the RST I have actual reduced my bike count, I just wasn’t riding my other bikes.  Having said that I am thinking of getting a Catalyst or Sterling frame some time in the future[]

Best of luck – It really is a fantastic bike

Stuart

[freddered]

Note on the Avid Ultimates.  I bought them just to improve cable routing so I wouldn't buy a front one for RST (they have brakes on rear of forks don't they?).

Fitting one to the rear may help routing if it's same as RT though.
Nice brakes as well.

Note.  Check out new Tektro brake levers.  They are available from some places already and can't be worse than the ****e 287Vs I use.

I will be replacing mine after xmas.

other notes.  I have SON Dynamo in Black, It's just sheer quality and seems to stay clean whilst my bike gets caked in mud. One less thing to worry about.

I have swapped from Pananracer Hi-Roads (1.5") which were quite quick to Scwalbe Marathons (1.5") and am very happy with them.  They haven't slowed me down at all but look and feel more robust.

I have a Brooks B17 Champion (large Copper Rivets) which was comfy on first day and got even comfier.  It also gets as much attention as my bike, looks gorgeous.

[alstan]

Many thanks for the most informative replies from the forum big guns, and for the welcome – it is good to be onboard with such an enthusiastic and helpful bunch.

From what you have said I have now confirmed some of my earlier thoughts, particularly the drops, dynohub, Brooks saddle (Ti will be a late call) and Schwalbes.

Budget of course is an issue, despite currently living and working abroad I remain a full UK taxpayer[]. There may be a slight advantage in my VAT free status but that would likely be wiped out by the delivery charges.
As pointed out, at a starting price of 1500 you would expect a good standard spec in any case.

I am no longer concerned about the stem and I take the point on the mudguards  - spend the money elsewhere.
I will go for the anodized finish for the hubs.
Info on the brakes and rims very useful but a little more work to be done there, I will see what SJS have to say.

I will keep you posted on the final ordered spec.

Al

[freddered]

Black Anodized Hubs are absolutely superb.

If dirt actually manages to stick to them it falls off when you even think of running a hosepipe over them

[geocycle]

Hi Alstan, As others have said the default option is actually a very good bike.  I'd second the brooks (mines the standard B17), schwalbe marathons (excellent -no problems in 3300 miles) and I've got the black hubs on my RT as praised by freddered. I also switched to avid ultimates with XTR levers and cables (on flat bars) which are very good indeed, but IMO it is hard to argue the difference from the default shimano set up is proportional to the extra cost. If nothing else you should definitely bin the shimano blocks -they made a real mess of the rims first few time out and were quickly full of metal shards.  I'll probably upgrade to a Schmidt hub when my CR18 rims wear out (currently 3500 miles and OK).  The CR18s have received some criticism but so far mine have been OK and I've not had to touch a spoke to retrue the wheel.  I might look at the carbide rims when I need to change.  One thing I've been less than pleased with is the blackburn mtn rack.  It's certainly sturdy, lightweight and the solid top would be good when riding without mudguards, but the construction gives very few options for pannier clips, mounting a d-lock or lights, better to go with one of the thorn or tubus offerrings.  Enjoy this stage of the process, I loved weighing up the options with SJSC and this forum is a great place to get advice, although everyone's ideal build will be different depending on usage.

[alstan]

Thanks Geocycle, a number of common themes have emerged which is most helpful.  I have emailed SJS and will see what their view is on the brakes and rims.  Noted about the Blackburn rack. Once I place the order I can see excitement being replaced by impatience.

[PH]

quote:Originally posted by Fred A-M


The most "useful" upgrade I undertook to the RST pre-purchase was the black Rolhoff hub finish which in the long-term will retain its looks: the silver finish degrades signficantly within 2/3 years.  

My 4 year old hub is not quite as shiny as it was when new, that's with year round commuting use, I wouldn't say it was significant. It's a shame it isn't as good a finish as on a Schmidt hub.  I have two, both silver, one five years older than the other, but you'd have to look hard to tell which.
I'd choose hub colour to match the rest of the bike and components.  Black hubs of that quality may look perfect in ten years time, but if you've matched them with other black components they're likley to look scruffy before then. I've had black bars, stem, cranks, racks, levers, mechs... they've all been scuffed after a couple of years.

Rims - to repeat myself- if I only went for one upgrade it would be carbide rims.  They'll improve wet weather braking more than any brake upgrade and if they last as long as claimed they're an economy rather than an upgrade[]

[Fred A-M]

I suppose it's all subjective to how regularly you want to clean the hub: I probably tend to wipe the bike down only every 3 months or so and I've certainly seen at least couple of silver Rohloffs in London very much looking worse for wear in terms of the finish, but presumably as a result of even less effort made in cleaning them!