Resetting the OLN of a club tour

[honesty]

Im thinking of changing my audax frame to a club tour to give me more versatility (plus the extra bottle holder I'm missing on longer day rides!) and apart from my current rear wheel (and brakes, but thats not a problem) Everything is transferable.

Now what I'd like to do is have 2 sets of wheels, a lightweight set with narrow tyres and a touring set with big comfy tyres, but to use my current lightweight set (ultegra hubs and RR465 rims) the rear OLN is too wide.

So the question, can you run a rear hub with an OLN of 130mm on the club tour with its OLN of 135mm, as its only a 5mm spring. What would be the problems this cause?

Can you cold set the club tour to a rear oln of 132.5mm, what problems would this cause?

[leftpoole]

Im thinking of changing my audax frame to a club tour to give me more versatility (plus the extra bottle holder I'm missing on longer day rides!) and apart from my current rear wheel (and brakes, but thats not a problem) Everything is transferable.

Now what I'd like to do is have 2 sets of wheels, a lightweight set with narrow tyres and a touring set with big comfy tyres, but to use my current lightweight set (ultegra hubs and RR465 rims) the rear OLN is too wide.

So the question, can you run a rear hub with an OLN of 130mm on the club tour with its OLN of 135mm, as its only a 5mm spring. What would be the problems this cause?

Can you cold set the club tour to a rear oln of 132.5mm, what problems would this cause?

Hi,
Good thinking indeed!
I used to run a Club Tour on 130 rear hub wheels with 28mm Conti Gatorskin tyres. Made a speedy very comfortable bike. I do not think 25mm tyres would work so well though. No cold set is required really but a 135mm rear hub would of course appease the designer!
My current Club Tour runs 135mm rear hub and 32mm Conti Gatorskins.
Best regards,
John

[jags]

you wont have any problems just a bit of a squeez to get wheel in and out.

[honesty]

So there's not going to be any problems with knackering the bearings or water ingress or anything then?

[jags]

wait until our man dan figures this out.

[Danneaux]

Hi Honesty!

The classic concern with coldsetting a rear triangle -- besides making sure each side is set evenly -- involves getting the dropouts parallel, and this step is often overlooked when coldsetting to much wider spacing.

Most *hubs* seem to tolerate OLN differences of about 2.5-3.0mm difference overall, depending on chainstay length. Thorn use this to advantage on their Mk3 Audax frames, which are spaced with the dropouts parallel at 133mm OLN when the frame is built in the fixture. This allows the same frame to accommodate both 130mm and 135mm hubs by temporary spreading or compression with the wheel in place.

Going much beyond that *without* resetting the dropouts to parallel can sometimes compromise hub life, again depending on 'stay length (worse with really short chainstays, not so much with long ones). What happens is the dropouts approach the hub locknuts at an angle and when the q/r is tightened, the axle can bend slightly, putting the hub cones at a cant and leading to early bearing wear. I have seen axle breakage occur on occasion in such circumstances, but only on ramped dropouts where the q/r had to be set really tight to prevent the wheel cocking in the drops and where the cold-setting was pretty severe -- in one case from 120mm to 130mm OLN. I've not seen it happen with vertical dropouts, where q/r forces can be lower, and the problem could have been avoided entirely if the dropouts had been reset to parallel after coldsetting to the much wider OLN spacing. See: http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/dropout-alignment-ffg-2

Just a data point or two for consideration and the reasoning behind the general concerns. If 't'were me, I would first check with Thorn/SJS Cycles to see if coldsetting would void the frame warranty.

Best,

Dan.

[Danneaux]

'Nother alternative would be to get a spare, longer axle (say from Wheels Mfg) and left-side spacer and install them in the hub of the lighter/narrower wheel, then re-dish the wheel to center.

I've often done this 'stead of bending frames.

This has the added advantage of allowing you to switch between the light and heavier wheels with no fuss or bother in future.

Best,

Dan.

[bike_the_planet]

Hi Honesty!

The classic concern with coldsetting a rear triangle -- besides making sure each side is set evenly -- involves getting the dropouts parallel, and this step is often overlooked when coldsetting to much wider spacing.

Most *hubs* seem to tolerate OLN differences of about 2.5-3.0mm difference overall, depending on chainstay length. Thorn use this to advantage on their Mk3 Audax frames, which are spaced with the dropouts parallel at 133mm OLN when the frame is built in the fixture. This allows the same frame to accommodate both 130mm and 135mm hubs by temporary spreading or compression with the wheel in place.

Going much beyond that *without* resetting the dropouts to parallel can sometimes compromise hub life, again depending on 'stay length (worse with really short chainstays, not so much with long ones). What happens is the dropouts approach the hub locknuts at an angle and when the q/r is tightened, the axle can bend slightly, putting the hub cones at a cant and leading to early bearing wear. I have seen axle breakage occur on occasion in such circumstances, but only on ramped dropouts where the q/r had to be set really tight to prevent the wheel cocking in the drops and where the cold-setting was pretty severe -- in one case from 120mm to 130mm OLN. I've not seen it happen with vertical dropouts, where q/r forces can be lower, and the problem could have been avoided entirely if the dropouts had been reset to parallel after coldsetting to the much wider OLN spacing. See: http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/dropout-alignment-ffg-2

Just a data point or two for consideration and the reasoning behind the general concerns. If 't'were me, I would first check with Thorn/SJS Cycles to see if coldsetting would void the frame warranty.

Best,

Dan.

The Club Tour frame,  including the rear triangle, is made from Reynolds 725 which is effectively heat -treated 4130 Chrome Moly. I believe that the rear dropouts are forged Everest ones with stainless steel inserts.

I would be surprised if you could easily cold-set tubing like this - I believe that the heat treating process hardens the steel and makes it less ductile. With older tubes made from 531 it was pretty straightforward.

Any frame builders out there successfully cold set some of these modern tubesets? I didn't think it was possible.

Cheers